Krill
Deity
How do you know what the other team have scouted though?
Ruleset Vote!
- Thread starter General_W
- Start date
When in doubt, refrain.
I have mixed feelings on this one. There is a lot of tradition for that rule, but there are some interesting potential holes. For one, the exception for things the other team can see is reasonable sounding but how do you know they really have visibility to the all the area covered by the picture. Then there's the "maps from huts" argument -- you can pop a "map" from a hut on the 1st turn, thousands of years before anyone has paper. Third, in a MP game diplomacy rarely follows the things available in-game anyway, for example you don't see in-game treaties for indefinite tech sharing in exchange for unit support.
I typically abstain on the screenshot portion of the rules, deferring to those who have a strong opinion against trading screenshots. But if I voted my feelings I'd say it's silly to have that limitation just to stay true to the tech tree.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
I personally think there are good arguments either way on screenshot trading, but overall it's something that can never be enforced properly (just by its nature). Thus it is far simpler to just allow teams to trade screenshots with one another than to make a rule which cannot possibly be policed.
Anyway, I doubt that most teams will be willing to trade away screenshots in the very early game. Giving another team knowledge of your lands (strategic resources etc) before you actually have a formal alliance is quite risky indeed.
That's my two cents on the matter.
Anyway, I doubt that most teams will be willing to trade away screenshots in the very early game. Giving another team knowledge of your lands (strategic resources etc) before you actually have a formal alliance is quite risky indeed.
That's my two cents on the matter.
I personally think there are good arguments either way on screenshot trading, but overall it's something that can never be enforced properly (just by its nature). Thus it is far simpler to just allow teams to trade screenshots with one another than to make a rule which cannot possibly be policed.
Anyway, I doubt that most teams will be willing to trade away screenshots in the very early game. Giving another team knowledge of your lands (strategic resources etc) before you actually have a formal alliance is quite risky indeed.
That's my two cents on the matter.
That doesn't prevent you from doing it though
. The benefits from doing it really outweigh the disadvantages...I am not going to do it while it is in the rules but i still think it is rather silly...
I don't see why we couldn't have a rule that couldn't be policed. I know at least one player on each team that I am absolutely certain would honor any honor-bound rule, enforceable or not, and thus I believe the teams will too. We're playing this game for the fun of it, after all.
... but even so, our admins can see what goes on in each forum, so screenshot trading would be hard to do without being noticed. Then you'd really need to go into stealth mode, and if you're planning to do that, why play this game in the first place?
My point was certainly not to start a debate on this issue, it was in the ruleset that almost all of us have agreed to already. My point was regarding the inclusion of a rule that ensures we cannot discuss this game between teams before we've met in-game. No one seems to object to such a rule, so could we include it please?
... but even so, our admins can see what goes on in each forum, so screenshot trading would be hard to do without being noticed. Then you'd really need to go into stealth mode, and if you're planning to do that, why play this game in the first place?
My point was certainly not to start a debate on this issue, it was in the ruleset that almost all of us have agreed to already. My point was regarding the inclusion of a rule that ensures we cannot discuss this game between teams before we've met in-game. No one seems to object to such a rule, so could we include it please?
Woah, wait a minute, must of totally missed that Screenshot thing when I voted on these rules a while back. Does that mean, for instance, that team 1 (who has espionage on team 2) take a Screenshot of all the land/military of team 2 and give it to someone who's at war with team 2? I mean, a team with enough espionage could even see what another team is building- I don't think they should be able to Screenshot share that. I would certainly only allow Screenshot sharing of your own lands or else it seems that could lead to very dangerous situations (of course, you can always do the in-game map trade)
The screenshot rule only states that screenshots cannot be sent to another team before either of them has Paper. After that, screenshots can be sent / traded / gifted / sold at will.
This is actually an artifact from the Civ3 MTDGs where map trading in-game is not permitted until Navigation. That seemed ridiculous, so the rulesets permitted map trading out-of-game with MapMaking. The equivalent tech in cIV is Paper, so that's why the rule is written like it is.
All things considered, the rule does very little harm, and will likely be deleted when the next MTDG gets started.
But Niklas' main point regarding out-of-game team contact prior to in-game contact is much more important. I see no reason to exclude the rule from the ruleset, so I'm going to draft an amendment and post it in the Amendment Thread.
This is actually an artifact from the Civ3 MTDGs where map trading in-game is not permitted until Navigation. That seemed ridiculous, so the rulesets permitted map trading out-of-game with MapMaking. The equivalent tech in cIV is Paper, so that's why the rule is written like it is.
All things considered, the rule does very little harm, and will likely be deleted when the next MTDG gets started.
But Niklas' main point regarding out-of-game team contact prior to in-game contact is much more important. I see no reason to exclude the rule from the ruleset, so I'm going to draft an amendment and post it in the Amendment Thread.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Obviously any screenshot trading would not take place in the team forums. But it's certainly possible that individual players could exchange screenshots between themselves, which is of course impossible to police. (I wouldn't do such a thing myself if the rules prohibited it, but I'm just pointing out that the possibility is always there.)
Sounds okay to me. Although I think exceptions for obvious things are fine. (For example, religions founded and wonders built are incredibly easy to see for all teams in the game, so announcements in the main forum that "team W has built Stonehenge" or "team V has founded Buddhism" seem to be perfectly fine.)
This situation isn't really what would matter in most games. By the time you're able to see what other teams are building, you'll probably have Paper anyway. Even if not, it's incredibly easy to just say in text that team X is building Y in city Z. Obviously we're not going to disallow text diplomacy, so I don't really see much problem with this situation you've proposed at all.
I think you just haven't adapted to human diplomacy vs AI diplomacy yet... The two are very different... There are a whole bunch of exploits you can do vs the AI that you could never pull off vs humans yet there is also an insane amount you can do vs humans that you can't do vs AI.
You know all, I don't.
look at the picture, often I get this info.
So it's wrong to make such a statement
Attachments
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
What I'm referring to is the fact that it is almost always very obvious when a team completes a wonder, due to the in-game score increases on that turn (which are recorded on the Civstats site as well as in the game). It doesn't take much work to connect a large score increase to an early-game wonder.
I agree completely.
Similar threads
