Sidar+ Brainstorming

[[to_xp]Gekko]

well, we know that Esus+ is coming and it seems Sephi has the intention to start a Sidar+ as well. so post helpful ideas here

my suggestion: allow their entire recon line to use Divided Soul, not just the Hunter UU

 

[Imuratep]

Sidar want to be left alone right? My proposition thus is:
The Sidar get a Shadow Focus counter (similar to the Puritycounter). This focus grants +1% +2 % in every city.
Every 2 turns the counter increases by 1. If an enemy unit enters Sidar territory the Focus counter decreases by 1. This way you have to try to start defending against barbs directly at your borders, but you get a strong boon from doing so. And it would create a synergy with cultural victory and altar for them. Especially civspecific synergies with the first one are quite rare in any FFH mod.
Something else that comes up to me thinking about the Sidar are shadows. In D&D you have several types of vision. Low-light vision, darkvision and vision even in magical darkness. A shadow adept (with the Esus State religion?) could be able to create darkness around him (similar to haunted lands). But instead of boosting your land (like haunted land does) darkness gives -1 to the tile. Additionally the tile grants -10% unitstrength. But Sidar (Svartalfar, Calabim, maybe Clan) units get +10% strength on darkness. Additionally darkness has the chance to spawn invisible illusions on the side of the controller of the tile that can't move on tiles without darkness, but are able to defend the lands of those who dare to attack the Sidar.
Another possibility would be that units on Darkness tiles get a special greyish artwork. Excellent for those that prefer sneakattacks that can't be tracked back to the controller.
Darkness can be removed by units with Sun II (as Radiant Guards) or the Revelation spell. As all Illusions the shadow creatures can be destroyed with Revelation.
This way Sidar get a good way to stay defense. Would fit the other civs that start with Shadow mana as well (IIRC Svartalfar, Calabim). Also Revelation would finally have a purpose.

 

[tesb]

I like the idea of destinctive terrainfeatures for each civilisation: i would add a reduction to 1 movement in the 'dark lands' for enemy units (they can't see very far) this would sun II make even more sense.

 

[Neomega]

I'd like to see any Sidar recon units have a 5% chance to get stealth.
It would also be cool if they got a 10% att/def bonus on haunted lands... and maybe even +1 food/commerce on haunted lands, and a double chance for haunted lands spread.

It seems to me, spirit, shadow and air mana would be better suited to Sidar. Maybe ghost ship national unit that has stealth, can fly, bombard capacity, but no cargo capacity.

Two of these would probably be flavorful enough.

 

[Medicine_Man_55]

The very first thing Sidar+ should add is a scout unit with the stealth upgrade and the ability to explore rival territory. From the outset of the game the Sidar should be able to extend their eyes and ears across the land without difficulty.

A couple of animal types should have the ability to see invisible. I think gorillas already do.

 

[Medicine_Man_55]

Something similar to what was done with the Amurites in the Amurite+ module would work well for the Sidar, rather than going nuts with terrain altering effects or special counters; not that these things wouldn't be fun, just that they become decidedly less unique if every civ uses one.

The Sidar are thematically a defensive/builder-type that uses isolation, espionage, and assassination to defend their borders. The Sidar should receive significant improvements to their recon line units, special advantages for exploration and intelligence gathering, and additional defensive mechanisms. I would probably also give their leaders a quick review.

Here's what I suggest for the Sidar+ module:

Recon Line units:

UU Scout: Sidar Spy
* 0/2, cannot attack, starts with Sentry I, permanently hidden, can explore rival territory, can investigate cities, never becomes obsolete

UU Ranger: Umbral Knight
* 6/6, +25% bonus vs undead, can use bronze and iron weapons/poisoned blade promotion

Arcane Line units:
* Sidar mages, and any T3 Sidar unit or special disciple unit with Combat IV or higher, can summon a Phantasmal Host, but only while within Sidar cultural borders.

New Summon: Phantasmal Host
* 4/4, +1 mind aptitude, +1 shadow aptitude, starts with Illusion, Blur, Shadowwalk, 45% chance to withdraw from combat, temporary summon (1 turn duration without Summoner trait).

* Sidar casters may not purchase the Death I, II, or III upgrades. The Sidar may connect a death node for strategic purposes but they cannot use necromancy.

Disciple Line units:

UU Priest: Shadow Convoker (national unit - limit 4)
* buildable at sorcery
* 4/4, +1 mind aptitude, +1 shadow aptitude, starts with channeling II, shadow I, life I, divine, medic I + II, stealth

UU High Priest: Shadow Chancellor (national unit - limit 1)
* may only be upgraded from a level 6 or higher Shadow Convoker
* requires Force of Will (or Arcane Lore if you're feeling generous)
* 5/5, +1 mind aptitude, +1 shadow affinity, starts with channeling III, shadow I, life, I, divine, medic I, II, + III, stealth

The Idea:

The Sidar defense is based on a well developed Recon and Arcane line. The Umbral Knight UU almost keeps up with a Mithral-armed Champion unit; deployed en masse with Shock promotions these units can counter a melee heavy invader. A good % of Sidar units will be able to summon Phantasmal Hosts, lethal nightmares that demoralize and even kill intruders into the Sidar domain. Those that survive are the next to face the blades of Sidar Shadows.

The Sidar unique disciple units represent the Shadow Conclave, a Machiavellian council that concerns itself with the balance of power in Erebus. Their nefarious purpose is largely secret even in Sidar society where the Convokers are regarded as sages and luminaries, completely eternal and amoral -- the ideal for Sidar society. The Shadow Chancellor is Rathus Denmora's chief advisor. 1st amongst the Conclave, the Chancellor's identity is known only by the members of the Conclave and Rathus Denmora himself.

The Sidar unique disciple units and the Umbral Knight UU are intended to act as a thematic soft counter to undead heavy civilizations; and to ensure that the Sidar are a difficult civilization for the Scions to deal with. The introduction of a few unique disciple units also makes going Esus an easy decision for the Sidar.

 

[Medicine_Man_55]

Sandalphon (Defender, Industrious)
Shekinah (Defender, Trader)
Futiro (Defender, Philosophical)
Mirrough (Charismatic, Emergent)
Leasieigh (Charismatic, Creative)

Charismatic and Philosophical are strong traits for the Sidar, though Charismatic less so since the latest patch. The Trader trait also encourages the Sidar to leverage their ability to discover and open lanes of commerce early.

Only two things jump out at me: 1) it would be interesting if at least one Sidar leader were Illusionist/Arcane, I dunno which that could be, 2) Sandalphon is clearly the weakest leader available, which is a sad state of affairs.

I suggest giving Sandalphon Opportunistic in addition to his current 1.5 traits. This is a good fit for the Sidar in general.

 

[Imuratep]

Ghosts are about possession, aren't they? If a unit with the Severed Soul promotion kills another unit he can choose to gain control over the body of the killed enemy. If he does the Severed Soul promotion is transfered to this unit and the unit that had that promotion before dies instead.

 

[Verdian]

my suggestion: allow their entire recon line to use Divided Soul, not just the Hunter UU

Ever since the Sidar mechanics were released, I've wanted the Divided Soul promotion moved to the melee line, preferably at Swordsman (or if that is too strong, Champion). I feel that Ghosts already give the Sidar recon line something special: invisibility. This enables Sidar recon units to pop out of no-where, attack, hide, return to a city, and wane. Giving melee units a less potent method of appearing, attacking, and retreating would spice them up.

If this was done, it might be interesting to move the Ghost's invisibility up their tech tree to Hunter. Both Divided Soul and invisibility should stay with the unit when upgraded, regardless of what is done.

edit:

Sandalphon is clearly the weakest leader available, which is a sad state of affairs.

I completely agree. I was shocked when I saw the powerful traits given to the Sidar the first time I played Wildmana. While this has been slightly tweaked by requiring a certain amount of xp, I think a smoother and less confusing way to balance this would be to readjust all of the leader traits. Sandalphon was given relatively weak traits to compensate for the the fact that the Sidar have a very strong play mechanic with their Great People. This looks like it was ignored when creating new leaders.

Any trait that makes gaining Great People easier to achieve (ie, any trait that effects xp gains and/or GP points) should have been avoided. Futiro, Mirrough, and Leasieigh should all be changed. Mirrough especially leaves the door open for an Arcane/Charismatic Sidar leader, which is crazy. I like the idea of giving Illusionist to one of them. A Raider leader could also be fun to play with.

 

[25Hour]

One option for dealing with crazily-synergistic Sidar minor leader traits is to simply pair them with "disadvantage" traits as well-- Agnostic, for example, or possibly a trait decreasing military production. Something like that. That way, you could keep some semblance of balance between Sandalphon and the minor leaders.

To my mind, it'd be kind of tricky to deal with this other ways-- Sandalphon effectively has one trait (that is, two half-traits, in Industrious and Defender) which means that the minor leaders need on net zero traits (since they will end up gaining one later.) To me, that means one normal trait and one disadvantage trait.


EDIT: Whoops! Just noticed that only 1 of the leaders is minor. Been playing too much RiFE, I suspect. Anyway, the point about the disadvantage trait stands, I think, for the Philosophical leader (that's some crazy synergy, there.)

 

[Neomega]

I will just pop in and say I am against moving the sever soul ability to all recon units. I prefer to use Divided Souls throughout the game because of that ability, eventually giving them marksmen to continue to make them seriously powerful assassin. I do wish wish wish Divided Souls never became obsolete, however.

A stack of rangers or marksmen beastmasters with the sever soul ability would just be too much.

I like using Mirrough, and with the current patch, making shade require 26 XP, I don't think he is OP at all. Industrious is a very good trait.