Strange Issue

[Mirx]

Hi,

I just bought CiV IV The Complete Edition after a long period not playing the Civ Games. Got bored pretty quickly with the Vanilla and decided to Mod it.

I decided to put in 'A New Dawn' and correctly followed all the procedures to install it, i.e downloaded ROM 1.8, patched ROM 1.81, installed A New Dawn 1.61 and so on.

Everything went smoothly, BTS successfully ran, the MOD successfully loaded in, Civopedia Informed me AND was successfully installed.

I went to custom game set my basic options, world size, timeframe etc and didnt mess with the specific ones, launched the game and boom nothing happens??

The music plays in the background but the load bar appears frozen, despite waiting for a considerable time, in the end its ctrl+alt+delete whereupon Task manager informs me the game has 'Stopped Responding.'

Ive just downloaded the patch 1.64 for AND but its the same thing. The only thing I can think is because i set my world to Gigantic and time to Eternity the computer cant cope with the sheer size of it but thats unlikely as i have a top end pc with a geforce gtx card.

Can anyone help?

Also can multiple mods be used in Civ IV at the same time without interfering with the game? I havent modded CIV before but I have modded other games like Fallout 3 and so on...

cheers

 

[Stormwind]

Gigantic maps can take upwards of 10 mins for creating. Which map did you use ?

 

[Mirx]

hmnn maybe its that then. i suppose i could try and be more patient but im not 100% certain its just patience.

i was using a gigantic earth shaped map i think.

saying that though i tried to test other types of games, i loaded the ice_age (18000bc) scenario which i think is on a giant map and i got a fatal error saying something about a memory error and it ctd to desktop.

ive run it 3 times and twice its ctd'd so im thinking that its releavent to the mod especially as i have tested BTS vanilla play and its no problem.

so it has to be mod related and im thinking its about the sheer size and amount of data involved.

i suppose i should keep trial and erroring until i find something that works, though theres 3.5gb of memory in my unit so it shouldnt be a problem.

ill take any advice though,

cheers

 

[Afforess]

The perfectworld2 mapscript can take a really long time (15 minutes is not unheard of)

Just to test, do something simple, like Custom Continents and small map. See if that loads, it should load under a minute.

As for mods, Civ4 mods can not be mixed and matched like Fallout3. The good news is that larger mods like RoM often have most of the smaller mods in them already.

 

[oChuckles]

Thought I'd chime in and say that I too have a crash on any gigantic map.
It begins loading and then hits a bad alloc at some point.

In vanilla RoM I was able to play Genghis Kai's Giant Earth, and now it crashes before the game begins, as does any "Gigantc" map.

Any clues as to why it wouldn't work in AND?

(btw on this wonderful addition)

 

[Mirx]

yer it was memory related, thought so.

i still get allocation crashes but have been able to play a game almost at maximum settings with 1 crash maybe every 5 hours or something so its all good.

its all about how far you push the settings, its a huge game afterall and a massive drain on memory.

my first proper game i chose randomly on a scenario Ice Age using Hyboria map which starts in 6000 BC with i think 31 opponents, its now 650 AD and 4 opponents have been wiped out (im personally responsible for 3 of those muarghh), but its only on chieftain settings with time set to snail and gigantic map so, but its all good.

im impressed with the sheer volume of details, units, research etc and definately think buying the complete edition (CIV 4, WL, BTS and Colon) with Rise of Mankind slapped on followed by New dawn makes all the difference. For those looking for a deep escape from reality, and depth its definately got all that, and except for the memory issues with it on high settings it works like a dream. my pc auto detects everything on high settings due to my awesome graphics and sound etc but im playing it on medium settings to prevent the memory spikes.

even if ill have problems with gigantic maps which i expect i will theres plenty of options to choose from to get a game, scenarios, create your own and so on so its all good.

one beef i have is understanding what the names of the maps translate into. for example its annoying that all the other civilisations seem to be on your doorstep, does anyone know of a big size earth map that has civs spread out over varios continents and divided by oceans rather than all on the same bloody one like they are right now, i mean it would be nice not to see anyone for awhile.

so advice on a good map to use would be great preferably a big one, and one that spreads them out over the whole globe even if your playing with all 50 civs.

or is there a way to make the maps bigger? even gigantic seems quite small compared with civ III, at least it seems that way, and right now ive got 25 civs or something all packed into one continent, pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

 

[Mirx]

ps- dawn definately has a problem with gigantic maps!

ive tried a number of scenarios: earth 18 civs, earth 31 civs and so on and its crashing to desktop as soon as i press the launch button, no notice, no eror window, just and immediate return to desktop, from my experience when it happens that way something is not working proper in the program.

you cant change the map sizes in the scenarios so in my case earth 18, earth 31 are unplayable.

ill have to continue to trial whats working and whats not, but i suspect the issue lies with dawn...

cheers

 

[Afforess]

Gigantic maps are working, I just loaded one up; the 32 size gigantic scenario. However, A New Dawn uses a lot more RAM than RoM or BTS, so 4gb (and 64bit OS) is necessary for them to play.

The reason A New Dawn requires so much RAM is because there is a trade off. You can get faster turns by using more RAM and less CPU, or get slower turns by using more CPU and less RAM. I opted for faster turns; but A New Dawn uses a LOT more RAM. 150% speed boosts (over vanilla RoM) come at a price. I think it's worth it though. RAM is cheap. CPU's are not.

 

[oChuckles]

Gigantic maps are working, I just loaded one up; the 32 size gigantic scenario. However, A New Dawn uses a lot more RAM than RoM or BTS, so 4gb (and 64bit OS) is necessary for them to play.

The reason A New Dawn requires so much RAM is because there is a trade off. You can get faster turns by using more RAM and less CPU, or get slower turns by using more CPU and less RAM. I opted for faster turns; but A New Dawn uses a LOT more RAM. 150% speed boosts (over vanilla RoM) come at a price. I think it's worth it though. RAM is cheap. CPU's are not.

So i'm guessing it crashes on load because it creates some sort of large cache of memory which it reuses rather than newing and deleting every turn?

That's wonderful and all, but it would be nice if you did a 'memory lite' version that maybe skipped parts of it? this would be highly appreciated... I really love the new features of AND, and the prospect of faster turns was really more of a cherry on top than a main pull for me...

I can't remember -- was there an install option for removing the efficiencies? (although a 'lite' version would still be awesome.)


aside:

I'm also guessing, just based on my own C++ optimizing experience, that there are aspects of it where the trade-off is pretty extreme. Some sort of "80% of the extra memory is used for 20% of the speed boost" thing. I haven't even glanced at any of the C++ for Civ; I'm just throwing it out there as a hunch.

 

[Afforess]

So i'm guessing it crashes on load because it creates some sort of large cache of memory which it reuses rather than newing and deleting every turn?

Well, it refreshes it every turn, but those cache's aren't all that large. I'd guesstimate that it is all the new XML tags that is putting it over the top for you.

I know there is a more efficient way of storing arrays than I currently use (approx 1/4-1/8 the current space, at least for the arrays), but it's a lot more code and work on my end, and I don't have the time to go back and rewrite a bunch of them. (I'd have to test them again 1 by one, and it involves rewriting how a lot of them work too, it will take a lot of time. Gah, I hate QA.) I take volunteers though.

 

[os79]

Gigantic maps are working, I just loaded one up; the 32 size gigantic scenario. However, A New Dawn uses a lot more RAM than RoM or BTS, so 4gb (and 64bit OS) is necessary for them to play.

The reason A New Dawn requires so much RAM is because there is a trade off. You can get faster turns by using more RAM and less CPU, or get slower turns by using more CPU and less RAM. I opted for faster turns; but A New Dawn uses a LOT more RAM. 150% speed boosts (over vanilla RoM) come at a price. I think it's worth it though. RAM is cheap. CPU's are not.

8GB RAM + Dual Core 3.0 GHz machine + RoM+AND =
AWESOME!

If you want no speed optimizations, stay with original RoM . Simple as that.

 

[NBAfan]

8GB RAM + Dual Core 3.0 GHz machine + RoM+AND =
AWESOME!
If you want no speed optimizations, stay with original RoM . Simple as that.

Ha, I have 8gigs of RAM and a quad-core.
RoM without AND has real long turns.

 

[os79]

Ha, I have 8gigs of RAM and a quad-core.
RoM without AND has real long turns.

Why ? Quad means nothing. I was boasting about 3 GHz part, not Dual Core .

 

[civ_king]

Yeah, two cores with a Nuts GHz is what you want,
I've heard Gulftown has 3.5GHz+, pretty sweet with hexcore

 

[NBAfan]

Why ? Quad means nothing. I was boasting about 3 GHz part, not Dual Core .

Rats, my Quad core is only 2.6GHZ. It is fast enough though.

 

[oChuckles]

Just want to say that reinstalling with a few fewer options fixed the issue.

I can live without zoos I guess...