The genie is out of the bottle...

[lindsay40k]

So, I got the hang of milking a CS whipping boy for XP. And now, the temptation to do it in every game is overwhelming. I can be building for hundreds of turns (I play Marathon), then someone starts rattling the sabre and I decide I better get an army trained, but it's so much better to get a couple of march swordsmen and range logistics bow units from scratch than it is to honestly build a barracks and a proper army.

Then, once I've got my five uber units, they can utterly slaughter any city that's not got a Military Base or air units. And once I've neutralised Attila or whomever, everyone thinks I'm a monster, so I may as well commit - and, since I love Terra maps, it's another five hour victory.

I could crank it up above Emperor, but I enjoy having a chance of getting an early Wonder and don't enjoy the higher difficulties.

 

[Delnar_Ersike]

If you wish to avoid the whole warmonger hatred ordeal ferrying you down a path to domination, just don't eliminate the first player completely (leave a tiny city alive, they'll be too disadvantaged to ever be a threat again).

But yeah, training units against CS units and cities is like a an uncapped version of training a unit against barbarians. It's odd that Firaxis did not bother to cap it like they capped XP from barbarians.

 

[MrUnderhill]

You could also wipe them out before meeting any other civs, if you're quick about it. You won't be penalized as a warmongerer if no one else sees you warmongering. I played a Continents game where it was me (Persia), Monty and Washington on the same continent. I destroyed Monty and Washington hated me for the rest of the game, but every civ on the other continent was friendly with me until I destroyed Washington, as well.

 

[sixty4half]

Thats actually one of the best reasons to play continents. You can dominate your neighbors, use CS trades for mid game then when you meet the new continent you have new best friends. I usually wipe out my entire continent so that the remaining guy (who will hate you) doesn't start befriending the new continent and then denouncing you. (You have been denounced by a friend!)

 

[reddishrecue]

Primitive domination in continents could be done well with Byzantine ranged vessels and cataphracts. Drop city's defenses with ranged ships and then go into the city with cataphracts for the city capture.

 

[Nick31]

Met too, OP, me too .

I don't do it every time, but if there's a CS I'm milking for workers anyway, I'll use him as Spartan field training against the Helots. On Diety, especially, where I need all my bag of tricks, having logistics range in time for AI carpets is fantastic.

 

[Athenaeum]

The thing is, what happens when you're milking a CS for XP and then an AI pledges to protect it in the middle of your war? Diplo hit?

 

[lindsay40k]

The thing is, what happens when you're milking a CS for XP and then an AI pledges to protect it in the middle of your war? Diplo hit?

Who cares what the AI thinks? You're training range logistics archers.

As long as you pledge to withdraw (read: not capture the city itself), there's only a tiny diplo penalty. Hell, you can sue for peace and then declare war next turn (handy if the CS builds a worker you want to capture) and all that happens is your warmonger threat rating has a single straw added to it and some city state miles away gets a permanent -20 with you.

 

[beetle]

The thing is, what happens when you're milking a CS for XP and then an AI pledges to protect it in the middle of your war?

Nothing. Pledge to protect if you are already at war with CS has no diplomatic consequences.

Hell, you can sue for peace and then declare war next turn (handy if the CS builds a worker you want to capture) and all that happens is your warmonger threat rating has a single straw added to it and some city state miles away gets a permanent -20 with you.

You are severely understating the consequences a second CS dow. The lower resting point is not as harsh as the quicker influence loss. It gimps the rest of your whole game! If you are inclined to assert that the penalties are not that significant, it can only means that you are not using CS effectively.

It does seem to me that you can now get away with a second CS DoW if enough time (e.g., a whole era) has gone by. I have taken advantage of that a couple games now to late-game liberate a CS from another CS.

Presumably you can conquer one CS early without consequence, but I have not had good cause to do that.

 

[lindsay40k]

If you are inclined to assert that the penalties are not that significant, it can only means that you are not using CS effectively.

My use for CSs is as target practice, and to develop luxuries for me to keep my happiness above uprising level by daisy-chaining citadels from capitals (the only cities I can't burn down), and to occasionally throw 1000G at to get them to DoW and intercept/distract an army my next victim thinks is going to slow me down

 

[beetle]

Those are all fine uses for CS!

The food, culture, and unit buffs (from friendly or allied CS) are just as strong as the buffs you are already taking advantage of. WC puppets votes are fun too. These boons are all compatible with abusing CS neighbors, just not the indiscriminant double-DOW you dismiss as not costing you much. There is another genie in that bottle...

 

[reddishrecue]

Abusing many cses isn't a good thing to steal workers. Worker stealing could be done better by declaring war on one cs and staying at war with that same cs to steal the first worker and then maybe the second or third worker even without having to declare war on so many cs/civilizations and end up annoying.

 

[Mesix]

You can use CS for training without any penalty at all if they declare war on you. When you are warring with an AI, a peace offered will include making peace with all the CS involved. If you remove a key CS from the list in the peace deal, you will stay at with with this CS without incurring the DOW penalty with other CS. You can now train your unites to your heart's content.

In addition to training high level archers, this is also a good way to get the coveted promotions for your scouts. Have your scout fortify on a forest/jungle hill near the city and it will bombard the scout each turn, but not kill it. If you have 2 scouts, you can rotate them out so that one is healing while the other is soaking up damage/xp. Once you have the top level scout promotions, sail them to small islands to explore ruins and they often get upgraded to an archer. Having upgraded ranged units with 3rd tier scout promotions and no movement penalties is awesome!

 

[joncnunn]

Moderator Action: Four off topic posts deleted. If you wish to discuss semantics or tv shows, please do so in the off topic forums.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[lindsay40k]

If it's any consolation, OP here loved the thread jack