Utilizing the Orbital Layer

[cpenner01]

Ok I got this idea from browsing mods for civ: be. I think orbital layer is a good concept but really doesn't have a whole lot to it. I think the orbital layer could be utilized more and have a greater impact on the game if special units were added to the game that could operate in the orbital layer. I realize this could be an OP element in the game but it would greatly increase the need for for cities to have good or decent anti-orbital range attack. I realize that the harmony affinity has a unit like this but I think it would greatly increase the strategic aspect of warfare. I realize there are attack satellites you can build but what if you could build some type of space ships that could bombard the surface and be able to help with attacks and not just defense. Yes you could destroy your orbital attack satellites and move them but that takes up production and time. I would like to two or three types of orbital units 1. strictly for bombardment 2. strictly for attacking other orbital units 3. a hybrid that can do both but isn't quite as strong for either but could adapt through infinities one way or the other. I realize that could begin to take away from a ground war but cities are all on the ground so you would still have to have an army. A way to limit these units but still allow them to have an effect on the game would be to put them in later game techs, increase how much production it takes to create these new orbital units (don't increase satellite production I think that is fine),and make them use strategic resources (Titanium, Geothermal, and Petroleum). I think that would be fairly balanced. Anyways I know rising tides is almost out but maybe for the next dlc Firaxis could move from the water to space. Anyways I would love some feed back guys! Oh and if you have any other ideas that would be great!

 

[kipwheeler]

One thing that I think would help the Orbital layer feel more like a battlefield would be the addition of "killer" sats--slow-moving, mobile satellites that basically can move into the same hex as a stationary satellite and destroy it.

Currently, the idea is that ground artillery can shoot up and kill sats, and some sats like orbital lasers and planet CARVRs can shoot down and kill ground units, but there's no way for one sat to take out another sat, and there's no sats capable of moving. That makes the orbital layers seem static--more like furniture than fighting.

The Roctopus helps a bit by bridging the gap between ground and sky, but it comes into play too late to really be a part of most satellite conflicts. Having something up in the sky moving around slowly and disrupting enemy satellites would go a long way toward making the orbital layer feel alive in its own right regardless of what's going on in the ground/surface layer.

 

[Galgus]

Attack satellites are already a thing with the Orbital Laser and the Planet Carver.

It could be nice if the aircraft could also take them down, but I'm mostly fine with the orbital layer being something to be claimed on the ground.

 

[GeoModder]

I can be wrong, but I thought Rising Tide will bring us a rocktopus-like unit with the capability to transport air units? One of the new mixed-affinity units?

 

[Galgus]

I think that is just a hovering carrier, the Aquilon, ultimate unit of Supremacy/ Harmony.

Which is crazy strong as-is.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

It would be interesting to have a "Anti-Sat Sat" that can shoot down a satellite at a range more than its own area of ground attack.

 

[kipwheeler]

Attack satellites are already a thing with the Orbital Laser and the Planet Carver.

It could be nice if the aircraft could also take them down, but I'm mostly fine with the orbital layer being something to be claimed on the ground.

I guess the reason that I'm not satisfied with the orbital layer being claimed only on the ground is that that it limits conflict in one axis (ground-sky). If you have a second axis (sky-sky) you increase exponentially potential areas for combat, and that would encourage a lot more interaction with the other factions.

Often, if I see an opponent has pretty much dominated a section of sky, I don't bother interacting with that opponent's orbital layer--figuring it's too much fuss to move all my troops into their land to take out those sats. (And I can safely ignore all that satellite infrastructure if I don't have any immediate reason to conquer his territory).

However, if I knew that he had created mobile sats, and those sats could move into my terrain, I'd be forced to pay attention to the orbital layer more closely. I'd also have a way to deal with/interact with his sats even if they weren't directly over my own territory. That would be a win/win-- or at least a fight/fight--situation to help overcome temptations to turtle and play passively.

 

[Darsnan]

and if you have any other ideas that would be great!

An idea I've been toying with is that, because there are ancient ruins of an alien civilization on the surface of the planet, then why not have ancient alien artifacts in the orbital layer as well. And in order to "harvest" or repair these derelict devices you need to build an orbital explorer unit or orbital repair unit. I think this could be done relatively easily by just creating a new orbital unit, and adding text to state "with the advent of technology X we have discovered an alien relic orbiting the planet. We now possess the ability to build an orbital explorer drone to salvage/ repair the alien orbital unit".

D

 

[Psyonif]

Why aren't satellites mobile?

I really do not understand why they have fixed position at all.

It basically makes them nothing other than buildings that explode after a while. Lasercom? +15% science, great building, no reason for it to be a unit.
Holomatrix? +14 culture, great building, no reason for it to be a unit.

They could even make it so that "Orbital duration" stat is, I dunno, "Propellant", and it goes down 1 per turn like it does now, but you can ALSO expend 1 to move it around tiles a bit. When planet carvers can actually follow your advancing armies, as opposed to deploying over 1 city for some siege support but then being left behind uselessly, then orbital units become, y'know, actual UNITS.

Seriously, why can't they move. I don't understand it from a gameplay, or a flavour, or a design decision. "Lazy devs" is the Occam's Razor solution to most problems, but I would think it'd take MORE effort to code in a unit that can't move than one that can.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I do think the "propellant" idea is good (even if they can only move around in your orbital space)...a few would have to be reworked slightly (miasma and resource dropping ones)...but those need reworking anyways.

 

[kipwheeler]

Why aren't satellites mobile?

I really do not understand why they have fixed position at all.

I think it's because the developers were originally thinking of satellites in terms of "orbital territory" that you claim and thinking of them less as "units" (even though they have a unit cost). That thinking shaped the way they are static.

While I understand how that probably unfolded in game design, I think it is time to revisit that. To go along with the propellant idea, you could have the movement be related to orbital time remaining. A stationary satellite might sit in place for 40 turns. However, if you make it move via propellant, its duration decreases minus one turn for each hex it moves away from its original location.

Some satellites would still be immobile (those generating resources or removing/adding miasma), but others could have max movement ranges of 1, 2, or 3 hexes per turn. (The more mobile ones being more expensive to build and higher in the tech tree).

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I think they should all be mobile, they just need to change how the miasma ones work. (Have them act like a 3x worker on one tile at a time..once an area is clear/full..you move them.

 

[Psyonif]

A stationary satellite might sit in place for 40 turns. However, if you make it move via propellant, its duration decreases minus one turn for each hex it moves away from its original location.

That's exactly what I meant, yes.

Some satellites would still be immobile (those generating resources or removing/adding miasma), but others could have max movement ranges of 1, 2, or 3 hexes per turn. (The more mobile ones being more expensive to build and higher in the tech tree).

I'd be happy if they had absolutely ridiculous movement, personally. Like, 40 hexes a turn, or even unbounded. But you have to balance mobility with durability, because, yes, if you move it 40 hexes, that's 40 turns less it stays up there.

Come on, they're satelites. Being able to float over anywhere in the world, really really fast, is the whole reason they were invented.

I think it's because the developers were originally thinking of satellites in terms of "orbital territory" that you claim and thinking of them less as "units" (even though they have a unit cost). That thinking shaped the way they are static.

I guess my whole problem with this - insofar as it still applies, to a large extent, in the game - is that it makes the orbital layer far less dynamic and interactive than it should be. Say you're planning an invasion of enemy territory, and because this is a sci-fi game, you want your biological hover-tanks supported by orbital kill-sats. Except in the game as it stands, you can't have your hover-tanks supported by orbital kill-sats, because although you can build orbital kill-sats, you can never actually use them because your opponent has a couple of solar collectors up there.

I have difficulty believing that this is how it was supposed to play out - that the orbital layer is tactically useless.

One easy fix - even if you're not going to make satellites mobile - would just be to bring the Civ V cruise missile back. A long-range missile that can blow up satellites. 'Cos driving your artillery under every one of the fifty solar collectors the AI builds is just not viable.

 

[swordoflight86]

In the far future of the 23rd century, there are only GEOSYNCHRONOUS SATELLITES!!!

Boy, I am on a roll with the tabletop wargame references tonight. Battletech, now 40k, what's next? Fading Suns?