Jon Shafer Leaves Firaxis

[ori]

Moderator Action: and at this point everyone will stop trolling other users - this includes both sides of this argument
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Tee Kay]

Don't blame it on Shafer
Don't blame it on haters
Don't blame it on civvers
Blame it on the boogie

 

[heihojin]

Good riddance. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, Jon.

 

[Stalingrad]

Probably got tired of all those whining "fans" on a certain forum.

Dont blame him...people are spoiled and ungrateful. I really like CiV and I hope they continue this style.

no mean to jump on a post,but buddy the majority of fans which is what firaxis hears, DOES NOTTTT i repeat, DOES NOT agree with anybody who agrees with this quote

 

[digitalAngst]

As much as I like CiV so far and as much as it pains me to do so, I'm tempted to say 'and good riddance'.

Also, while I won't engage in any fired/chickened out/simply quit/whatever speculations, I'd still like to express my vexation over his departure happening at a very, very inopportune time.

°dA

 

[RABicle]

Jacyp it sounds like you believe Glenn Beck when he thinks America is a socialist company. Firaxis can't stop him changing jobs? Get the eff out.

Moderator Action: and there I was telling everyone to stop attacking each other. So now to reiterate: if you cannot post without attacking another user, please don't post.

Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Hian the Frog]

Jon Shafer is now out. Ok....
Who is now the "chieff" ? Who will try to make Civ 5 at least as good as Civ 4 BtS ?

I still think that Civ 5 is a failure. Probably the 2010 "game failure".

The one who will replace Jon Shafer will have an huge task to correct, update, debug what should have been a great game.

Another question that will probably never receive a public answer: Is it Jon Shafer or Firaxis who have to be blamed ? Who is "guilty" of this failure ?
Even if an answer won't changed the fact that Civ 5 is a "rotten game", Sid should take care that his baby won't die.

We all have to wait now.

 

[nokmirt]

Past releases featured all kinds of SG's and modpacks. I don't get the sense that the excitement is there this time. Whether that is the fault of the game or an aging fanbase who has other things to do (with kids these days not so much into the PC games), that it is hard to say.

If the plan was to engage the fan base, I think it failed.

I think the problem was they wanted an all new fan base. But most of the heat comes from traditional civ gamers, who feel left out in the cold, with this dumbed down version of civ as it is called. They should have catered to the already present fanbase. New gamers will learn how to play, we are not a world of simpletons, isn't it better to have the game a bit more complicated. Civ 4 BTS evolved and had layers of elements that civ 5 is missing at this point. Most including myself figured Civ 5 would take up the next level of evolution of civ gaming. Instead it reverted in many ways. I truly hope the reason is because Civ 5 is different, with a whole new outlook and the complication is added through expansion packs and dlcs so it eventually surpasses civ 4. I hope in the end it as at least as good as civ 4. A newer game should always be better than its predecessor!

 

[Bezhukov]

I think the problem was they wanted an all new fan base. But most of the heat comes from traditional civ gamers, who feel left out in the cold, with this dumbed down version of civ as it is called. They should have catered to the already present fanbase. New gamers will learn how to play, we are not a world of simpletons, isn't it better to have the game a bit more complicated. Civ 4 BTS evolved and had layers of elements that civ 5 is missing at this point. Most including myself figured Civ 5 would take up the next level of evolution of civ gaming. Instead it reverted in many ways. I truly hope the reason is because Civ 5 is different, with a whole new outlook and the complication is added through expansion packs and dlcs so it eventually surpasses civ 4. I hope in the end it as at least as good as civ 4. A newer game should always be better than its predecessor!

I think the plan was to make the base game a lot simpler, to make it easier for new people to pick it up (as you noted, the unspoken assumption, that new people like simpler to the point of blander, may itself be flawed*) and that the established modder base could provide the depth the established fan base of players likes through updates of RoM/FfH etc... along with new efforts on those lines, using the updated CivV engine as a base.

That may be happening now - The Call to Power mod is looking interesting - I'd like links if anyone knows of similar efforts.

I do fear that the flaws in the base game, however, have drained the excitement necessary to inspire people to produce things like RoM and FfH.

* - reminds me of the experience Magic:The Gathering had with its Portal base sets. They've now gone to making the core set a more visceral experience - more accessible without the obvious dumbing down to the point of blandness.

 

[Bezhukov]

Whatever the reason, the bottom line is this:

CivV has lost the "just one more turn" ness.

Need to recover that. Stat.

 

[Zhahz]

This thread is embarassing to the civ community. Some of you should really be ashamed. If you don't like Civ 5, which is a good game, just maybe not what YOU might want, then don't play it.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Whoa!
True, CIV V had its flaws and was rather unfinished at launch, but overall, it wasn't as terrible as everyone said. I've enjoyed (and still enjoy) playing it, and liked some of the new additions to the game. Thanks John, but maybe it's for the best?

What the man said. I enjoy Civ V - know that it can become even better.

As for Jon Shafer leaving Firaxis, I am sure it is not a coincidence. Exactly what it means is another matter.

 

[cephalo]

Personally, I think that Jon is a talented designer. I wish he could have stuck around long enough to respond to the user feedback. Civ5 just needs a few tweaks in my opinion. Some of the more drastic changes were very positive. I love hex maps and the new combat system. Yeah, it needs a better AI, so give us one!

 

[Öjevind Lång]

But given we had just feasted on Civ4/BTS, CiV, didn't feel like a step forward - the MP felt like going back in time to Civ3. How much that was due to unrealistic time constraints, Firaxis will never tell us and from past history, will never learn.

I enjoyed Civ IV a lot, but I''m becoming just a little tired of it being canonized as the Unsurpassed, Holy Game Blessed by the Seven Popes (and a Kangaroo).

 

[Thormodr]

The debacle of Shafer 5 actually goes much deeper than Jon Shafer. I think he's the fall guy here for a bunch of horrible decisions made in order to make the game appeal to the mass market.

2K Games and Firaxis are to blame much more so than Jon Shafer.

Jon Shafer did his best but really, what did anyone truly expect out of a 24 year old?

Anyway, let's see if the clowns at 2K Games and Firaxis now do the right thing.

I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

We know from the mediocreness of the new Pirates and the bombs that are Railroads and the new Colonization, that Firaxis seems to be having trouble getting quality product into our hands. There are good bits and pieces, so we know there are people who CAN do their job, but for some reason, the guy in charge of putting it all together into a single, desirable whole isn't doing his.

I emphatically agree about the new Colonization, which actually felt impoverished compared to the original Col - a game I still love despite its faults. (The same applies to the original X-COM.)

At the same time, I have encountered good posters who were also good gamers and who enjoy the new Col, even people of that description who played and enjoy ed the original Col game. So, to coin a phrase, YMMV.

Öjevind

 

[guspasho]

This thread is embarassing to the civ community. Some of you should really be ashamed. If you don't like Civ 5, which is a good game, just maybe not what YOU might want, then don't play it.

If you don't like a topic here, then don't read it.

But yeah, the name-callers really should be ashamed, it's completely unnecessary.

 

[guspasho]

The debacle of Shafer 5 actually goes much deeper than Jon Shafer. I think he's the fall guy here for a bunch of horrible decisions made in order to make the game appeal to the mass market.

2K Games and Firaxis are to blame much more so than Jon Shafer.

Jon Shafer did his best but really, what did anyone truly expect out of a 24 year old?

Anyway, let's see if the clowns at 2K Games and Firaxis now do the right thing.

I'm not holding my breath.

This is just what I was thinking. Is Civ5 the game that Shaefer would have made? I doubt it. I suspect Shaefer was a fall guy, put in place because he wouldn't have the wherewithal to object to corporate interference in an established franchise (ie the obviously corporate-driven DLC push and the accompanying dumbing-down of the game out-of-the-box), and that the mistakes were mostly 2K/Firaxis' and they need us to blame him to make them look competent. This is just my uninformed opinion, guys. I know as much as you, and undoubtedly less than you collectively.

Speaking of; how did he get the job anyway? Anybody know?

I hope he takes the experience he got at Firaxis and starts his own game company and gets to make his own game.

 

[guspasho]

I enjoyed Civ IV a lot, but I''m becoming just a little tired of it being canonized as the Unsurpassed, Holy Game Blessed by the Seven Popes (and a Kangaroo).

Can you blame us for comparing Civ 5 to Civ 4? It seems perfectly natural to me.

 

[Negator_UK]

IMNSHO the main fault of Civ5 lies with all the people who bought it like sheep. Companies exist to make money, and if they can make money by selling junk then they will - In the US its even the Law ! (shareholders being able to sue CEO's if they make purposefully decisions that lose money, or make less than max).

Civ5 has received lots of reviews from the chimps in the PC gaming press because they don't actually play the game, Jon probably got a good rep within the industry on the back of this and moved onto more money - maybe his new boss doesn't play civ either.

I doubt I'll want to buy one of his games, but there is no way in hell that one man can screw up a game like civ because Fireaxis is supposed to have quality control mechanisms that stop this sort of thing.

But the main blame lies with the fans - you should know by now that PC games companies use early adopters as beta testers, what you do with your money really counts, what you say afterwards really doesn't.