SGOTM 13 - What do you want?

[DynamicSpirit]

Well, it seems you're cursed. I'm doing the SGOTM 13 map.

The staff have decided that after a run of exotic scenarios, it's time for a 'normal' game. So SGOTM 13 will be played on the basis that the winner is the fastest team to achieve a particular victory. Nothing exotic (other than that we haven't yet decided how much the map will be modified).

I decided this time to use a poll - so - with the constraints I've just mentioned, what kind of game do you prefer? Which victory condition? Which difficulty? What kind of map? It's a multiple choice poll, so you can vote for as many options as you want.

I will retain sole determination of what the game will actually be, but I'll pay attention to the poll, and to the drift of discussion in this thread.

 

[neilmeister]

How about a combination:
- complete isolation, and a conquest/religous/domination victory.

 

[Gumbolt]

I think the key is to make it fun but don't make the game a walk over. I think most teams are probably capable at Emperor/ immortal level judging from the previous game.

You could set the barbs to raging to really set up some fun. Then dump us with a land of Shaka or imperialist Ai. Sit back and watch the carnage unfold.

 

[vranasm]

well voted for emp/dom it's the settings I like most :-D

undecided on authors input. I am all for changing map if the end is fun game for all of us, but for me (at least) it seems pretty tough to judge how some particular map will play out.

I like maps with twist ;-) whatever it should be.

 

[Gumbolt]

How about a combination:
- complete isolation, and a conquest/religous/domination victory.

That might be fun if you strip our starting continent of all resources!

 

[beestar]

I like the exotic scenarios - it's more interesting to try to apply our experience and skills to come up with creative solutions to a new problem.

This could be through unusual constraints, or a heavily modified map, etc.

I wouldn't want to just see, for example, a bunch of Civ players try to get the fastest diplo victory on a standard map.

 

[babybluepants]

Would fastest victory of any VC be an option? (banning AP, ofc)
Hard to balance the map, but that's just up to the designer.

 

[lymond]

If we do domination - which I voted for - maybe highest score should be used for victory as opposed to earliest date/fastest victory. Highest score dom would require different strategies and offer a change of pace for the SGOTM.

I think Emperor difficulty has a nice balance to it for the SGOTMs. I think the SGOTM is more about competing against the teams as opposed to the AIs. Emperor is difficult to at least make players cautious in their approach.

I like the idea of an isolation start on a heavily customized Big and Small map with lots of different land masses and islands. It's not a map a play often but would be different I think.

Cultural victory only would be another nice possibility, but in that case I would not want to start in isolation.

 

[beestar]

Also, I'd be interested in a game that wasn't mainly 'tech as fast as you can'. SGOTM12, as a space race, was like this. SGOTM11 was a diplo race (tech to Mass Media). In fact, most games of Civ4 are like this, so it would be good to try something different.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Would fastest victory of any VC be an option? (banning AP, ofc)

It's certainly an option, but I'm not sure how it could be made to work given that some victory conditions can always be achieved faster than others, so everyone would feel obliged to go for the one or two fastest VC's even if they're theoretically allowed to go for other ones.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Well you could turn off diplomatic victory.

AP wins are too cheesy, even if you are isolated.

 

[Gumbolt]

Ap may also be luck in some instances. You can never tell what the Ai will do and they can be so easily manipulated.

having a pre 1300ad AP win would be silly. I would feel robbed of a game really.

 

[bcool]

Domination/Conquest would be fun but there would probably have to be some map manipulation / interesting map to make it last a decent amount of time assuming a non-deity game.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Conquest/archipelago/tiny islands might be fun.

 

[Indiansmoke]

I haven't played a cultural SGOTM, so that would be very nice. Emperor difficulty propably best for my taste.

 

[kossin]

Deity/Conquest

Don't mind customization but I guess make it so no teams can lose early. (no insane neighbor, no barbs?)

 

[neilmeister]

Sorry to be the first with a negative post, but I think it has to be said.

If the game is near either end of the difficulty range (Deity or Noble), a lot of players will not play, or quit very quickly. Is that what we want? The game needs to be inclusive of a wide range of playing ability.

Sure, we could see a display from the top teams on how to win at Deity (which would be highly instructive), but it doesn't sound like fun to me.

If the game is nerfed to make Deity winnable and fun (IMO, something that SGOTM's are supposed to be), then why make it Deity at all?
Equally, Noble would be such a cakewalk, as to make it boring!

 

[Gumbolt]

Deity/Conquest

Don't mind customization but I guess make it so no teams can lose early. (no insane neighbor, no barbs?)

I think this might scare people off. I think there are other ways to make games more exciting.

You can edit land, resources, wonders and the Ai starting units to make things more fun. For instance do an invasion game.

Set up a war monger Ai with a food heavy/copper/iron/horse start so you have a really big Ai to contend with later on. Prework a food/resource for the AI.

You could perhaps give one Ai 2 settlers/worker at start. It changes the game ball park a little but no one needs to know till late game that this has been done.

I liked the heavy resource games. Set us up alone. Give all the AI land filled with just resources and see how the human player does at conquest. I have no idea how this would work out. You could even remove all the resources from our land. maybe a few select resources in starting location.

 

[leif erikson]

Sorry to be the first with a negative post, but I think it has to be said.

If the game is near either end of the difficulty range (Deity or Noble), a lot of players will not play, or quit very quickly. Is that what we want? The game needs to be inclusive of a wide range of playing ability.

SGOTM's are usually played to a higher standard than most single player games. The care and detail that goes into each turn set makes the team play better than any of its individual players. We have crept up to Emperor for exactly the reason you state above, trying to make players comfortable enough to participate.

We now have more teams that are fairly well established and that are increasing used to working with one another. I think it is time to try a high level difficulty game to see what the results might be and to keep people's interest. What better way to learn than to participate in levels of difficulty above what many of us would normally try?

edit -

You can edit land, resources, wonders and the Ai starting units to make things more fun. For instance do an invasion game.

Set up a war monger Ai with a food heavy/copper/iron/horse start so you have a really big Ai to contend with later on. Prework a food/resource for the AI.

You could perhaps give one Ai 2 settlers/worker at start. It changes the game ball park a little but no one needs to know till late game that this has been done.

So, you want to make it more like Deity without calling it Deity?

 

[Fluroscent]

The gap from emperor to immortal should be managable for any of the teams. Immortal to Deity is quite a gap though, and Deity is very unforgiving if the opening is not played to perfection. Teams may quickly find themselves in a situation they cannot turn around for a win.

Immortal, but a real immortal map, meaning not set up with an overly strong capital, easy AIs or tons of easily block-able land would be great.