SGOTM 13 - Plastic Ducks

[kossin]

South

Spoiler :

Couldn't find much here... the island we see appears to be 1-tile only and I could only find 1 more island tile far to the south.

SouthEast

Spoiler :

An island nearby with some jungle and hills.

Further away (probably 10+ tiles) we can see a lot of forests, presumably an AI location.

East

Spoiler :

3~4 tiles island nearby with at least 1 hill.


Behind that, a continent with a ton of forest.

NorthEast

Spoiler :

At least 2 forests found some distance apart, possibly 2 different islands with the first one being about 2~4 tiles away from our own island. Further away, seems to connect to the continent to the East.

North

Spoiler :

A few tiles apparent. A lot further north (20 tiles or so) there seems to be some vast land.

NorthWest

Spoiler :

Nearby, several tiles as well as a few forests.

They seem to lead toward a larger landmass (connecting with West)

West

Spoiler :

Appears like islands connecting to a larger landmass, once again.

SouthWest

Spoiler :

Massive jungles right on our doorstep.

From the looks of it, I'd say we are not even semi-isolated, contact and trade-routes pre-Astronomy appear to be quite possible, hence early war as well.

Summary:
South and North don't seem too important right away. North~East and South~West look like the directions with stuff to bash.

Furthermore, with all this land nearby, I think settling the PH is probably our best bet to get a faster start. SIP is only really better if we can get 1 more city when stuck at a low count... it doesn't appear to be this way here.

 

[kossin]

Visual summary: (careful, no resize here - big picture!)

I didn't mark everything as it is quite time consuming already. But it should give you an idea of the layout as I have been able to decipher it (it becomes more difficult with the more markers I add to pinpoint the locations...I really need the blue of the ocean to use as contrast).

Almost every green dot (the center of cities) should be a piece of land. In the larger clusters I added some dots arbitrarily to show there was more land to be seen.

Spoiler :

Note: there is way more land to be seen to the southwest, west and southeast especially. There are also more tiles to the northeast/east but I was having a hard time pinpointing them.

The further I get away from visible land, the harder it is... I rely only on forests/jungles and hills (couldn't find any peaks strangely enough)...

There's one more thing I'm trying to look for... not sure if it's possible though. More on that if I do manage to find something about it.

EDIT:
... sadly after investigating in a random game, it seems structures do not appear using the Flying Camera trick so I can't pinpoint where the GLH is

 

[srad]

EDIT: I am working on Rolo's Flying Camera Trick, trying to estimate some things about land in the fog. So far I've found 1 island to the north and proof that the island to the NW has 3+ tiles.

Can you post an explanation (or pm me) of the trick?

 

[srad]

1. as scouting wb out asap

Agree. This is crucial to get a knowledge of the situation,

if we would go for moai, we also should go for the colossus and rex our capital asap after building moai to size 15+ running hr, working all seatiles to make it worth the efford (which also would make ignoring cs a bad idea. 120 turns with +1 hammer +1 commerce + around 100% boni running the right civcs + buildings in captial alone still must be calculated, but might make up for the investion...)
else our capital simply would suck all along the game...

I try to get a clearer picture on this topic:

1. Does CS looks like a good investment without Moai?
2. Or is it like:

Moai -> CS -> No Astro bulbing possible
No Moai -> no CS -> Astro bulbing if necessary
Astro bulbing necessary (how early do we know that) -> no Moai -> no CS

 

[kossin]

From rolo himself:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9469871&postcount=67

 

[Duckweed]

Got the save. Here's the picture after moving the warrior.

Spoiler :

Also did a quick test run to T61 with settling on PH, the situation is

Size 3 capital, 1 galley, 1 settler and 1 worker are ready to sail, 1 WB has scouted for a few turns already. Fishing->Mining->BW->Sailing was done on T60.

citizens working on 2 clams and corn with 25F, 1H OF.

Will run some more tests tomorrow, if you have better results, please post your detailed plan.

 

[Snaaty]

thanks for the picture. can you do me a favour and put resource bubbles on plz? thx

i will try also to do a testrun now to t61 these days and will let you know the results.

-> i still havent (successfully) installed the hof mod cause it sort of collides with other mods im running, so i cant have a look at the save myself right now and have to rely on your info

@ srad:

cs gives you the bureaucracy bonus (+50% on commerce and hammers for capital) but is pretty costly as civic. so it´s only worth beelining there if you have a high commerce and/or hammer capital, else other techchoices might be better in the beginning. looking at our capital it has no commerce and no hammers, so cs isnt really worth the beakers (and we cant even chain irrigate something on tiny islands). getting moai + colossus and rexing the capital would drastically chance this situation cause then our capital would bring lots of hammers and commerce (each costal tile would be 2 food, 3 commerce 1 hammer and we can work like 15 or so of them + the 2 hills)

 

[madviking]

Heh. Tomorrow's the first of the Hundred Days.

 

[srad]

@ srad:

cs gives you the bureaucracy bonus (+50% on commerce and hammers for capital) but is pretty costly as civic. so it´s only worth beelining there if you have a high commerce and/or hammer capital, else other techchoices might be better in the beginning. looking at our capital it has no commerce and no hammers, so cs isnt really worth the beakers (and we cant even chain irrigate something on tiny islands). getting moai + colossus and rexing the capital would drastically chance this situation cause then our capital would bring lots of hammers and commerce (each costal tile would be 2 food, 3 commerce 1 hammer and we can work like 15 or so of them + the 2 hills)

Yes, thanks! I tried to get some grip on the dependencies. CS means that we cannot bulb Astro (because Paper, Education and PP are higher on the list). So if we come to the conclusion that Astro is crucial for the map this may lead skipping CS.

Doing the 'return on investment' calculation on Moai + Colossus + CS looks not easy

 

[srad]

Will run some more tests tomorrow, if you have better results, please post your detailed plan.

I couldn't do better.

I noticed that we have a health issue already at size 5.

 

[Duckweed]

thanks for the picture. can you do me a favour and put resource bubbles on plz? thx

Updated.

I couldn't do better.

I noticed that we have a health issue already at size 5.

Yes, health issue can only be solved by new resource from 2nd city. However, when producing a settler, working on mined hill is still a gain -- 1H.

 

[srad]

Or +1 health from Corn with a Granary.

 

[kossin]

I get t61 as well with PH.

I also did a t62 with 38H Overflow. (2-whip)

 

[Duckweed]

I get t61 as well with PH.

I also did a t62 with 38H Overflow. (2-whip)

How much food in stock? 1 turn earlier of 2nd city could give

1. yield from a seafood tile 4~5F + 2C
2. 1H1C from city center
3. 2~3C from trade route depend on the distance maintenance
4. earlier 2nd to 5th citizen = at least 4*2C if on water tiles, more if there's other resource tiles
5. possibly earlier settler from this city which leads to the same cycle or so called snowball effect

 

[Duckweed]

Detail plan to T60 - Sailing will be done on T60. Will stop earlier if enough AIs find us to get some research bonus, which I'm glad to see, but highly suspect.

Tech -- Fishing->Mining->BW->Sailing

T0 -- settler to PH
T1 -- Found Paris (worker) AUTO ON as default, special tile management will be mentioned.
T19 -- worker to Corn I, Paris(3 WBs)
T27 -- worker to 2E
T29 -- worker M
T35 -- worker to north hill
T36 -- WB goes 1W CFB
T37 -- worker M
T43 -- worker to Corn
T44 -- worker R
T45 -- WB goes 2W, Revolt to slavery
T46 -- WB CFB
T47 -- worker to 2E hill R then to north hill R
T53 -- 3rd WB is done and goes for scouting, depends on possible 2nd city site. Paris(Settler)
T55 -- worker goes to forest and chop
T59 -- Paris (2 pop whip settler)
T60 -- Paris (Galley, clam to mine), worker finish chopping so that galley will be out on T61

 

[kossin]

How much food in stock? 1 turn earlier of 2nd city could give

1. yield from a seafood tile 4~5F + 2C
2. 1H1C from city center
3. 2~3C from trade route depend on the distance maintenance
4. earlier 2nd to 5th citizen = at least 4*2C if on water tiles, more if there's other resource tiles
5. possibly earlier settler from this city which leads to the same cycle or so called snowball effect

8 food... however 35 overflow not 38
Also, I didn't chop the forest, I just realized!

 

[Duckweed]

8 food... however 35 overflow not 38
Also, I didn't chop the forest, I just realized!

With the 3rd WB too? If so, that's incredible results!

 

[kossin]

No 3rd wb isn't done of course ... in build queue.

 

[srad]

In which direction should the wb start scouting? South with a side trip to the visible 2 tile island?

Plan looks good, nothing to add.

 

[Duckweed]

In which direction should the wb start scouting? South with a side trip to the visible 2 tile island?

Plan looks good, nothing to add.

Mostly depends on what could be revealed after border pops. If there are new food resources such as fish or crab revealed, then very likely that's the 2nd city site and therefore the scouting direction since the 3rd WB has to stay around for the 2nd city. The worst choice is to settle the western or southern site to claim the visible clam, still we can scout other direction for a few turns.

@Others

Any suggestion?