Uses for old units

[Sisiutil]

I used to delete most of my old, obsolete units that didn't have enough promotions to justify the cost of upgrades (if you can build a contemporary unit with the same promotion level, it's not usually worth it). Lately, however, I've been keeping more of them around.

Here are some of the uses I've found for old units--can anyone think of more?

• HR happiness: Probably the most obvious use. If you're still running Hereditary Rule, each unit, regardless of its age or potential effectiveness, contributes to the happiness in a city.
• Revolt prevention: If you've captured a city that's going to suffer from foreign cultural pressure, a stack of old units can garrison the city and reduce or even eliminate the chance of a revolt.
• Cannon fodder/can openers: Throw older units into the fray to preserve more of your siege weapons. Instead of attacking a strong defender with a catapult, trebuchet, or cannon, attack with a few older units instead to weaken that defender first. The downside here, however, is that each old unit lost in this manner will contribute to your overall war weariness.
• Emergency upgrades: If the enemy counter-attacks with a sizeable stack while your stack o' doom is busy elsewhere, a stack of older units and a reserve of gold might just save your butt.
• Medical units: If I'm going after a domination or conquest win, I'll eventually split up my stack to attack different cities simultaneously and bring about victory sooner. However, this often means I only have one stack with a super-medic unit. Having a few unpromoted units around that can take Combat I/Medic I gives me the extra medic units I need for my supplementary stacks.

Any other ideas?

 

[Nicol.Bolas]

you can gift them for "you have given us military aid"

actually i didnt test this i just got this idea now.
maybe it can even be abused to rise their upkeep

 

[A_Hamster]

Dump obsolete units on a weak vassal to boost their power rating a little. They pay upkeep and you don't. Also, the AI gets a hefty upgrade discount so they might upgrade them.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I recently played a game where a chariot ended up one of the highest promoted units I had - I never upgraded it and I used it as cleanup in a curaisser stack. It ended up being the unit to take a couple of cities, with something like 21 xp.

 

[ABCDPuppies]

[*]Cannon fodder/can openers: Throw older units into the fray to preserve more of your siege weapons. Instead of attacking a strong defender with a catapult, trebuchet, or cannon, attack with a few older units instead to weaken that defender first. The downside here, however, is that each old unit lost in this manner will contribute to your overall war weariness.

Another point is that this will also feed your opponent xp and GG points. Obviously the former isn't an issue if you will be wiping out the stack that turn, and the latter may not be that big a deal anyway -- I don't think I've ever seen an AI do anything terribly compelling with a GG -- but something to think about.

(Actually, this might even be considered an upside if you can feed them enough old units for a GG that they then settle in a city you will soon take .)

 

[Ataxerxes]

you can gift them for "you have given us military aid"

actually i didnt test this i just got this idea now.
maybe it can even be abused to rise their upkeep

No, it doesn't help your diplo. Unlike Civ3, in Civ4 giving them what they request gives you the bonus, but not unsolicited gifts. Also, the AHamster noted, they pay less to upgrade the unit.

Aside from HR happiness and AHamster's idea, I can't think of other uses. If the unit is highly promoted, you might upgrade him. Cannon fodder has a small downside - you're giving the enemy GG points.

 

[bestbrian]

Obsolete units make good token garrisons for interior cities that won't see the enemy.

 

[Nicol.Bolas]

lol I did the cannon fodder.....

I think its best.......
1) you are wiping thats stack.
2) ai only settles the GG. good, since your taking that cities

i will try this vassal idea....


unsolicited gift give bonus i am sure.....

if you give them techs and free resources, it adds very little bonus +2

 

[ABCDPuppies]

unsolicited gift give bonus i am sure.....

if you give them techs and free resources, it adds very little bonus +2

It's pretty easy to get a +4 modifier for "fair and forthright" trade relations by gifting unsolicited resources or techs if you have a decent tech lead. This is different from the bonus you get for giving solicited techs ("You gave us help", which I believe is +1 per instance, not sure if it's capped) but the same as you would get from giving them extremely lopsided trades. (And I do mean extreme, since what they consider "fair" is already pretty lopsided .)

Not sure about gifting military units though. I've never seen a bonus from this myself, but maybe if you gave them a whole lot?

 

[Sisiutil]

Not sure about gifting military units though. I've never seen a bonus from this myself, but maybe if you gave them a whole lot?

I don't think you get any sort of a diplo bonus for them at all. The only use for it might be to assist a militarily weak vassal or ally who's under pressure/attack from a powerful opponent. Even so, knowing the AI's poor grounding in military tactics, you'll probably get better results if you fight their opponent for them.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Cannon fodder is not a bad idea, because most units can only fight once per turn.

So say you have 4 badly damaged infantry in one city vs 10 enemy infantry. Assuming none of your units hold out, if you can get 7 cannon fodder units, they won't be able to take the city this turn, allowing more time for reinforcements to arrive. It matters not if they are infantry or warriors. For this reason, 2 move units can always have a use. Those 6 left over chariots from 1000 bc can help you buy time vs modern armor (yes I know they have blitz)

 

[kochman]

*Guard rear cities while your newer units go on the offensive...
*Guard recently captured cities while your newer units continue offensive...
*Gift to vassals who will upgrade them or AI you are trying to schmooze....
*Upgrade, save your hammers for building other things...

 

[Truthy]

I often leave things like swordsmen and archers defending some of my inner cities that are not at risk to attack from anyone. Mostly out of laziness or not paying attention to my empire.

 

[Sisiutil]

I often leave things like swordsmen and archers defending some of my inner cities that are not at risk to attack from anyone. Mostly out of laziness or not paying attention to my empire.

I forgot to mention this one in my original list, but I think it's entirely sensible. Not only is it cheaper (saving both hammers on new unit builds and gold on upgrades), it also makes strategic sense--concentrate your forces where they're most likely to be needed.

 

[bobbyboy29]

I find that if a unit isn't TOO outdated, they can actually serve as clean up units after the siege has done all it's damage. If a cannon retreats from a rifle, a full strength maceman can usually take it out. Heck, sometimes an enemy unit can win a fight with 0.1 health left over, in which case even a warrior could finish it off! This saves the health and movement points of your stronger units and can speed up the war effort. As you take cities and secure areas, you can leave these units behind as city garrisons.


All in all, I definitely think you should do another ALC to demonstrate just how to use outdated units

 

[A_Hamster]

I find that if a unit isn't TOO outdated, they can actually serve as clean up units after the siege has done all it's damage. If a cannon retreats from a rifle, a full strength maceman can usually take it out.

Actually, I rarely give up on Macemen. If they have CRI or unused promotions, I do bring a few along in the main SoDs as clean up. After they get CRIII, they can be upgraded to Rifles or Infantry depending on what tech I've reached. Perhaps this isn't the best use of gold since the upgrade is expensive, but I like having a lot of up-to-date CRIII units in my SoDs.

Upgrade question: Right now the limit on retained experience for upgraded units is 10. It is possible to edit the XML to allow the retention any amount of EXP. Would raising the EXP cap to 25 be too unbalancing? Another consideration is that the AIs does not have an EXP cap as regards barb units. So while a human player's units can only get 10 EXP from barb units, the AIs are unlimited. Raising the retained EXP cap for upgrades would help the AI, although not as much as the human. (I don't know how the AI determines the units to upgrade, but a human would be more selective and only upgrade the most experienced. It appears the AI does a mass upgrade regardless of unit experience.)

 

[bestbrian]

Actually, I rarely give up on Macemen. If they have CRI or unused promotions, I do bring a few along in the main SoDs as clean up. After they get CRIII, they can be upgraded to Rifles or Infantry depending on what tech I've reached. Perhaps this isn't the best use of gold since the upgrade is expensive, but I like having a lot of up-to-date CRIII units in my SoDs.

Upgrade question: Right now the limit on retained experience for upgraded units is 10. It is possible to edit the XML to allow the retention any amount of EXP. Would raising the EXP cap to 25 be too unbalancing? Another consideration is that the AIs does not have an EXP cap as regards barb units. So while a human player's units can only get 10 EXP from barb units, the AIs are unlimited. Raising the retained EXP cap for upgrades would help the AI, although not as much as the human. (I don't know how the AI determines the units to upgrade, but a human would be more selective and only upgrade the most experienced. It appears the AI does a mass upgrade regardless of unit experience.)

Really? I've never heard before that the AI do not have an xp cap vs barbs. Source, please?

 

[Kid R]

I'm sure there was an online game a while ago where a friendly civ (can't remember if it was a vassal) was not only gifted some old units but the player actually disconnected a resource of some kind from a couple of cities and built some fresh low units for the ally. Don't remember the exact details but I guess it could make sense if you wanted to help them defend without DOWing their attacker right at that moment.

 

[A_Hamster]

Really? I've never heard before that the AI do not have an xp cap vs barbs. Source, please?

It was from another member of the forum, although I cannot cite the thread. The gist was that he used to play with Raging Barbs on until a game where he landed on another where there was only one AI, and he was faced with many Lvl 6 units. Since I don't know in what thread I read that, I can't cite it or double-check his story.

However, now that you have expressed doubts, something has occurred to me: his conclusion was based on the assumption that there was always only one AI on that continent and so the only experience source would be the various barb cities the AI was slowly conquering. What if the AI civ was the only surviving AI civ on that continent, and it had destroyed at least one other AI before the Human discovered that continent? Then the Lvl 6 units would have been veterans from AI vs AI and not AI vs barbs.

 

[oldskald]

My out-dated units wear funny uniforms and parade up and down outside my palace, providing photo-ops for tourists and encouraging foreign exchange from the same tourists.

They have funny titles like Beefeaters, and Royal Mouse Guards (even in a democracy), and they have funny rituals. My current Guard unit must turn three times anti-clockwise before sitting down to dinner in the Officers' Mess, and parade every Saturday around the 30 metre diamond encrusted statue I've built to myself in the main square of my capital. Which I've re-named after... myself.

I also have an old Trireme that acts as my Royal Barge.