Why does everyone hate me?

Zalcron

Prince
Joined
Oct 6, 2002
Messages
394
I think the new patch is not too bad, however, i disappointed to see the ai is still flaky. Case in point is as follows. I attacked a city state and annexed it 1500 years ago, and now 1500 years later the world still hates me for it denocuncing me left right and centre. ( no actual war declarations or attacks ) i am isolated as the big bad boy of the planet whilst the ai players attack one another with diplomatic impunity.

Its lke the real life eqiviliant of the world hating The US for what it did to its native Americans in the 1870's or everyone hating the English for its conquest of Wales in the 16th century except this is longer ago. Is there a way to make them forget?
 
history remembers what the US did to the native americans or what Germany did to the jews but retains only details about the cambodian or rwandan genocides. same in the game. if you want them to forget, just reduce your strength. the jealous will always try to find ways to justify why you are so strong and not them and their eternal reason? you HAD to commit atrocities. you ARE NOT strong because you are more intelligent :p
 
Check why they hate you. It could be because you're both competing for the same city state, because they covet your land or simply because you're 'trying to win in the same way as them and they don't like it".
 
Haven't played the latest patch, but it's sad they didn't address this yet. If you don't give away for free the only resource you have, they hate you for eternity.
Eventually everyone will hate you and there's not much you can do about it.
 
I suspect their unhappiness with you stems from more recent events; it's hard to imagine that in the entire game, the only thing you've done to create friction with another civilization is one attack on one city-state 1,500 years ago. :)

There are a lot of sources of friction between civs in the game, just like in real life, and some of them are dependent on the other person's (AI's) point of view. I.e., I certainly don't think I've done anything wrong by founding a city near Rome, but the Romans may see it as encroaching on their sphere of influence. Do you get irritated when you've spent 25 turns building a wonder, and someone else completes it one turn ahead of you? So does the AI. If you hover your cursor over the civ in the diplomacy window, you'll get a list of factors to their current attitude (unless they are one of the more deceptive civs, in which case they'll stay friendly right up until the sneak attack!). Also, some civs, like some people, are just plain greedy - they don't like you because they want your stuff. :)

It's also possible they are "talking tough" because they see you as an easy mark. Are your military and city defenses up to snuff? If I've fallen behind in my military, the other civs will often start coming up with reasons to dislike me - but if I build up my defenses again, they go back to being neutral or even friendly, once they no longer need to justify attacking me.

That said, it's entirely possible to stay on good terms with at least most of the world - you're almost always going to have some friction with neighbors, and some civs are just hard to get along with, but as long as you aren't out warmongering or causing other havoc, you can keep good relations with many of the other civs.

Haven't played the latest patch, but it's sad they didn't address this yet. If you don't give away for free the only resource you have, they hate you for eternity.
Eventually everyone will hate you and there's not much you can do about it.

Untrue and unhelpful. I suggest you try playing the game.
 
What's untrue about it? If you agree to a declaration of Friendship and they ask for a free resource (and they will) and you refuse, they will hold it against you for the rest of the game.

I've never had a civ ask for my only copy of a luxury as a freebie. I've never seen a civ go from friendly to permanently hostile ("hate you for eternity") over a single refused request.
 
I've never had a civ ask for my only copy of a luxury as a freebie. I've never seen a civ go from friendly to permanently hostile ("hate you for eternity") over a single refused request.

By "hate you for eternity" I meant you get the negative diplomatic penalty that lasts the entire game, not necessarily that they go hostile. If the penalty is enough to make them hostile, they will. And I've had enough games where this situation happened, so I think I'll pass your "suggestion".
 
I don`t hate you :p...
But yeah, post patch game, two wars against America (took over all of their 2 cities lol + one CS during the first Polynesian - American war...)
The entire world denounced me... seriously? How the heck am I supposed to keep up on King unless i conquer at least one nation?
I took 3 cities, come on...
 
My opinion: the AI are bad losers. When everything goes well to you, they start hating you because you're in the track to win.

I'd like the AI to be a little less gamey. I mean, I don't want the AI to think like ''this is a videogame'', but like ''History will judge us for what we do''.

That'd be cool. xD
 
i have had civs dislike me for the rest of the game for not giving them a luxury for free. one very memorable occasion was when gandhi did it and after i denied him he eventually got so angry that we went to war over it.
 
I had my two main allies turn against me for what is essentially a mechanics bug.

In a nutshell -

Agreed to go to war vs. someone else.

That "someone else" challenged my troop buildup, had to go to war "early" or get tagged as sneaky.

Whomped him quickly, took his reasonable peace offer after 8 turns.

Next turn they said, "welp, time to go to war!" I already did! Now - Still in the 10-turn truce period, I can't got to war again!

Both "allies" get the "You made a promise to enter a cooperative war against another empire, then broke it" grump, 600 turns later it's still there souring our relations.

gah.
 
I had my two main allies turn against me for what is essentially a mechanics bug.

In a nutshell -

Agreed to go to war vs. someone else.

That "someone else" challenged my troop buildup, had to go to war "early" or get tagged as sneaky.

Whomped him quickly, took his reasonable peace offer after 8 turns.

Next turn they said, "welp, time to go to war!" I already did! Now - Still in the 10-turn truce period, I can't got to war again!

Both "allies" get the "You made a promise to enter a cooperative war against another empire, then broke it" grump, 600 turns later it's still there souring our relations.

gah.

Yeah, stuff like this is very annoying. The diplo AI is already harsh, and it's not fun being punished for things out of your control.
 
I've been universally hated as a "warmongering menace" when I never once declared war. But I did beat the snot out of many countries that attacked me. I'm hated for not dying.

I've had former "friends" suddenly denounce me... because someone else denounced me. And there's a chain reaction, until no one in the world will trade with me. But someone I was just at war with will temporarily "not hold a grudge," and I can trade with him. Until the next turn, when he promptly denounces me.

The entire diplomacy system, though improved since the original release, is still a bloody embarrassing mess.
 
I've been universally hated as a "warmongering menace" when I never once declared war. But I did beat the snot out of many countries that attacked me. I'm hated for not dying.

No, you are hated (or feared) for invading other nations. Apparently, a whole lot of them. And conquerors have been saying "but he started it" for thousands of years. I'm not surprised the AIs are skeptical of your earnest desire for peace after surveying the smoking ruins of your former enemies...

I've had former "friends" suddenly denounce me... because someone else denounced me. And there's a chain reaction, until no one in the world will trade with me. But someone I was just at war with will temporarily "not hold a grudge," and I can trade with him. Until the next turn, when he promptly denounces me.

Yes, some civs are deceptive, and will pretend to be your friend until they see no further advantage to it or sense a weakness to exploit. Just like humans.

The entire diplomacy system, though improved since the original release, is still a bloody embarrassing mess.

Not so much once you take time to learn how it works and think about how it applies to your own game. It becomes a lot of fun, then.
 
Going to resurrect this rather than post a new thread.
Just started a new game after a while out, I take it denouncing is new as I don't remember it before?
Didn't take long for it to happen to me, early game just running around killing barbarians and England denounces me (well ok, I'm playing as Germany, but seriously this isn't meant to be a history lesson) - haven't walked into their territory, haven't had a war with anyone, not even settled near them yet and "we hate you and we're telling the world you're evil" wtf? Then Greece joins in, halfway around the world from me and still no war yet.... This is pretty stupid.

Well now England really hate me and declares war, so they hopelessly lose a city and beg for peace. I'm feeling generous, so ok. More denouncing, two times, three times each from Greece and England and I'm getting sick of seeing the message so I declare war and wipe out England, now my only friend (they hated Greece too) is denouncing me instead. :rolleyes:

Totally broken AI. If I'm so strong that this is based on jealousy or feeling threatened then you'd think *some* nations would become allies so they don't die or I help them. It's really not smart to randomly piss off a larger nation, never mind declare war when they're being entirely peaceful.
But whatever, it just prevents me bothering with politics and culture, so I'll just treat the game like a more detail TW game. :goodjob:
 
What's untrue about it? If you agree to a declaration of Friendship and they ask for a free resource (and they will) and you refuse, they will hold it against you for the rest of the game.


There's a sweet spot where you are large and dominant enough that the AI will look over past transgressions and or fake friendly because they decided it is not helpful for them to openly oppose you.

That however won't save people who declare too many wars or are applying Civ3/4 strategies like oscillating wars where you declare war on everyone at some point and take chunks of everyone and expect to patch things up. That strategy is diplomatic suicide in Civ5. Generally when you reach a tipping point, the AI will hate you, regardless of how powerful you are.

So in reality, there's a sweet spot, which is a moving target depending on your size, your proximity to possible rivals and just how avidly you applied old strategies to Civ5, and a bunch of random factors like Civ mix, and your clique in the game.

A helpful remark would be to point out that
1) declaring war on city states is usually not helpful
2) Check pledge to protect warnings when dealing with city states
3) try not to break promises not to expand in a specific direction after the warning from a leader, break co-op war promises or just any promises in general - like withdrawing from a city state
4) The lay of the land - like civs who are rolled in the game. Some games will just be filled with jerks.
5) You may be trying to win in the same way as too many civs
6) Civs do bribe each other to go to war with another civ. Being absent diplomatically can open the door for an AI to step in and instigate wars against the human player and other AI civs
7) A good early step in the first 50 turns is to try to get an early war going to set alliances. If a warmonger is in the mix, try to get them to DoW on another Civ so they leave you alone. In turns up to 150, keep an eye out on who is dow on who and establish those hatreds by bribing the same parties to go to war again
8) Accept Declarations of Friendships from trustworthy Civs, Ghandi, Sukhotai are generally reliable, Genghis is often not. Try not to DoF with the enmies of your friends.
9) Insert reference to Bibor's Diplomacy by the Numbers. As a guide on who the warmongers are (generally) who the loyal friends are (generally)
10) Note that Diplomacy variables are subject to RNG rolls but most of the time, the AI will play each leader within a range that makes them quite familiar over many playthoughs.

That would have been a good start
 
Those AIs simply wanted to quit and reroll, but sadly could not.
 
What's untrue about it? If you agree to a declaration of Friendship and they ask for a free resource (and they will) and you refuse, they will hold it against you for the rest of the game.

Well, thats' why you NEVER connect that second lux to your trade network BEFORE trading out the original. Only then you connect the surplus. Problem solved. :D
 
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