Your research estimate assumed that our base science rate wouldn't significantly increase from where it is now. I think that it will rise significantly from the merchants you mentioned, switching off the mines in the capital for commerce tiles, the cottages maturing and bureacracy! So even with my mistake I think 30-5 turns is reasonable as you suggest already...
Since astronomy doesn't get any prerequisite bonuses, then double bulbing it gives us 3120 research. So each great scientist there is worth 1560 unmodified science (there is no 1.2 prerequisite modifier on astronomy as mabraham indicated)
It is slightly more efficient to double bulb astronomy than it is to bulb something else with a prerequisite. 1800*2 / 1.2 = 3000 (plus we could build an observatory in Washington at least earlier too)
tech costs
PPr 2496 (1.2 modifier)
astro 3120 (no modifier)
Sci Method 3744(1.2 modifier)
physics 6240 (1.2 mod)
electricity 7020 (1.2 mod)
lib 2184 - 330 already done (1.2 mod)
Mass Media 5616 (1.2 mod)
so 26970 / 1.2 + 3120 = 25595 research required
so yes 26.5k is enough
I'm updating the gpp spreadsheet in the mean time.
I propose sending units to investigate each area as much as possible before we can complete Physics and build Airships to more thoroughly investigate each area.
Detailed Strategy:
Detailed Strategy must concern itself with Logistical Capabilities (for those entities in the game that require it, mainly Units). It mainly concerns itself with efficient producing and efficient consuming of Food, Hammers, Commerce, Research, Wealth, Espionage, Units, Great Person points, Great General points, Buildings and Wonders, and others I may have omitted. Some of these things can be only produced and consumed locally within a single City, with some exceptions (a lot of the exceptions concern Corporations).
Research:
Our primary research goal is Mass Media which allows us to build The United Nations which allows us to place the Diplomatic Victory Resolution of the UN ballot.
To acquire Mass Media, we must first acquire, via various means, the following technology path (at a minimum):
Astronomy (3120B) -> (Liberalism - 1t) (330/2184B) -> Printing Press (2496B) -> Scientific Method (3744B) -> Physics (6240B) -> Electricity (7020B) -> Radio (9360B) -> Mass Media (5616B)
The long term plan is to bulb at least Physics and Electricity, use Liberalism to acquire "free" Radio. Currently a Great Scientist will bulb exactly 1500 + 3 x 80 = 1740B, since our Civ-Wide Population is 80. This means that using two GSs to bulb Astronomy would waste 360B. Bulbing Astronomy would also require acquiring Printing Press first. Scientific Method could be bulbed by two Great Scientists with a small amount left over to research. Using three GSs to bulb Physics would waste 480B. Electricity could be bulbed by three Great Scientists with a small amount left over to research.
I like mabraham's latest suggestion to use 1 GS for an academy, 3 GS for physics and 3 GS for electricity. I believe you made a miscalculation when you suggested that 3 GS would waste some bulbs on Physics. Each GS in 15-20 turns from now would produce approximately ~1800B so 3 would give us 5400B which is less than Physics (6240).
Using 6 GS lets us use Gems and GPFarm to stop running max specialists and to build other useful things for us. Boats, Airships, maybe the globe theater (but I think it is a waste in a diplo game since we really only are drafting units to kill one AI team not the whole world).
I estimated that an academy will give us approximately 1500B (after modifiers research) If we plan to finish our research in ~35 turns. It is close enough to the value of a bulb that I think it is worth investing in the academy. The academy is more flexible than a bulb and will help tech useful things after Mass Media (like Nationalism, Chemistry & Biology if the AI doesn't tech them for us).
Assuming we can generate the Great Scientists fast enough, I would suggest no Academy (its too late to get enough research from it this late in a TUN game) and use:
1) one Great Scientist to bulb just almost 3/4 of Printing Press
2) one Great Scientist to bulb just over half of Astronomy
3) two Great Scientists to bulb nearly all of Scientific Method
4) two Great Scientists to bulb just over 2/3 of Physics
5) three Great Scientists to bulb nearly all of Electricity
I like mabraham's plan to bulb physics and electricity because it also help keep the Great Library and our monasteries working for us as long as possible. If we accelerate the tech to Scientific Method with bulbs we are losing those advantages earlier than we really need to.
That's nine GS - one for Physics = eight GS. I don't believe GPFarm can generate that many on its own. Not counting GS generated in other cities, GPFarm can generate the next five GSs in t146, t151, t157, t163, and t170. At that point GP cost increases by 200 to 1200 and GSs would be generated on t179, t190, and t203. These are the turns that I estimated mentally, and due to that the final GS may actually be generated on t200, except that I did adjust for the loss of The Great Library. A test game could more accurately determine the turns when Great Scientists are generated.
Please look at my gpp spreadsheet where I detailed exactly where and how the great people can be generated. We can realistically get 6 great scientists +1 free one from physics by T167. So 1 for the academy, 3 for physics, 3 for electricity. If we want to we can get another one from GPFarm T177.
See the file attached to this post http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11039337&postcount=2598
I fully expect that we will be able to generate only five Great Scientists before we are ready to complete Radio via Liberalism. It would make sense to use three of them each to bulb Physics and Electricity (third GS from 1st to Physics).
I believe you are wrong because I estimated this already using the spreadsheet.
Alternatively, I like bulbing nearly 3/4 of Printing Press with the first Great Scientist to make the benefits of Printing Press available sooner and use two GSs on Physics.
We only still have a Great Artist which could be used for a Golden Age (8t)?
City builds:
Cities will continue building what is in their build queue, except those building Wealth could build Galleys which will convert in the queue to Galleons after Astronomy. Originally suggested by bcool.
Any city without a Courthouse will build one sooner rather than later, even the Capital. In my opinion, they should have been built as soon as possible after Code of Laws in all cities, starting with the ones furthest from the Capital. They reduce city maintenance -50% regardless of any slider setting.
Markets will be considered in high commerce cities and those cities we expect will support a significant number (3 or more) of Merchants.
Washington will complete Oxford University in 3t. After that it will focus on growing its population.
City Growth:
All cities will focus on growth, until they reach happiness cap or can support their tasks most efficiently.
Exploring Units:
<I will incorporate recent posts about exploration later. What follows did not consider it.>
Our goal shall be having at most 5 units out of border for exploration, so we incur no support costs for exceeding this limit.
The Work Boat will be moved to reveal more of the unrevealed NW area from a shore/near ocean viewpoint.
The Chariot will explore the NE part of the SW unrevealed area.
The southern Axeman will move west to explore the SE and S part of the SW unrevealed area.
The War Elephant shall move SE along the coast and then explore the big unrevealed area in the SE corner of the map.
<Other sections of this post will be filled in later in the next few hours. Please comment on what you have already seen.>
Sun Tzu Wu
I propose we don't worry too much about it, but do what we can. I estimate Airships will be available from around T170. Units that are already near these areas may as well do what they can, but there is little point in spending any significant resources when airships will come a short time later, and there is no possibility of winning a UN vote before after T190 - and we'll probably need some time for wars and diplo mod tweaking.... So I don't think we want any chariots with Sentry, or such, because they won't learn much fast enough.
Same. The caravel building in CB will help there.
Also there is the barb city to Monty's SW, which could have the wizard. Our workboat should head for it planning to find things out with Astro.
I hope you've seen the preliminary work I did with screenshots in posts 2575-2578.
Wow! I'd say we have reached the fork in the game where we have maximum choices to make.
I vote against expending any more effort on finding the Wizard other than sending our workboat to the bottom-left of the map. Our massive bulbing campaign will net us Airships when we reach Physics. They can base out of any North, West, and South Witch city so long as we keep open borders with them. This will certainly find the Wizard for us. A Galleon strike team should be able to reach any point on the map in 25 turns max.
Finding The Wizard and destroying him is essential. The more intelligence or possibilities we can eliminate, the better the chance that we can destroy The Wizard prior to the earliest Diplomatic win we can muster. Otherwise, we have to delay the Diplomatic Victory resolution. That would not be efficient play.
Yes, I plan to use the Caravel to explore waterways of interest.
What is Astro? Isn't Optics sufficient for a Work Boat to cross oceans?
I just looked and failed to see how it helps. I did notice some comments about the wizard; However, they make no sense without explanation.
Finding and destroying The Wizard is just as important as obtaining a Victory Condition. We may discover that the nature of The Wizard makes a Diplomatic Victory impossible. We may need to pursue a Space Colony Victory instead. The sooner we know that, the better off we are.
Remember, we aren't playing a normal Diplomatic Victory. The Wizard is still out there and we need to find him. We don't even know that Airships can detect his presence.
Sun Tzu Wu
I am in favor of converting Ghenghis the North Witch to Taoism. He is already at +6 relations with us, and conversion will bump him up to friendly. His partner Elizabeth is also at +6 right now, and will also become friendly if converted to Taoism. That would hurt our espionage, but we could also simply trade for monopoly techs with them.
We should be careful converting the south witches cities to Taoism. If we start a holy war and drag them in with us, then the North and West Witches will like them also. As it is, the West Witches like the South more than us and would vote for them in UN election I'm thinking a Holy war with us, the North, and the West might be most ideal.
Also, our diplo with the West doesn't seem to be going so well.
Are we on the right track with wooing the West?
Any city without a Courthouse will build one sooner rather than later, even the Capital. In my opinion, they should have been built as soon as possible after Code of Laws in all cities, starting with the ones furthest from the Capital. They reduce city maintenance -50% regardless of any slider setting.
Markets will be considered in high commerce cities and those cities we expect will support a significant number (3 or more) of Merchants.
Washington will complete Oxford University in 3t. After that it will focus on growing its population.
City Growth:
All cities will focus on growth, until they reach happiness cap or can support their tasks most efficiently.
Exploring Units:
<I will incorporate recent posts about exploration later. What follows did not consider it.>
Our goal shall be having at most 5 units out of border for exploration, so we incur no support costs for exceeding this limit.
The Work Boat will be moved to reveal more of the unrevealed NW area from a shore/near ocean viewpoint.
The Chariot will explore the NE part of the SW unrevealed area.
The southern Axeman will move west to explore the SE and S part of the SW unrevealed area.
The War Elephant shall move SE along the coast and then explore the big unrevealed area in the SE corner of the map.
comments in blue.
I like mabraham's latest suggestion to use 1 GS for an academy, 3 GS for physics and 3 GS for electricity. I believe you made a miscalculation when you suggested that 3 GS would waste some bulbs on Physics. Each GS in 15-20 turns from now would produce approximately ~1800B so 3 would give us 5400B which is less than Physics (6240).
Using 6 GS lets us use Gems and GPFarm to stop running max specialists and to build other useful things for us. Boats, Airships, maybe the globe theater (but I think it is a waste in a diplo game since we really only are drafting units to kill one AI team not the whole world).
I estimated that an academy will give us approximately 1500B (after modifiers research) If we plan to finish our research in ~35 turns. It is close enough to the value of a bulb that I think it is worth investing in the academy. The academy is more flexible than a bulb and will help tech useful things after Mass Media (like Nationalism, Chemistry & Biology if the AI doesn't tech them for us).
I like mabraham's plan to bulb physics and electricity because it also help keep the Great Library and our monasteries working for us as long as possible. If we accelerate the tech to Scientific Method with bulbs we are losing those advantages earlier than we really need to.
Please look at my gpp spreadsheet where I detailed exactly where and how the great people can be generated. We can realistically get 6 great scientists +1 free one from physics by T167. So 1 for the academy, 3 for physics, 3 for electricity. If we want to we can get another one from GPFarm T177.
See the file attached to this post http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...postcount=2598
I believe you are wrong because I estimated this already using the spreadsheet.
I am anxious to avoid you treating this turn set as an abstract optimization problem. That takes time that we do not have available. Unfortunately, you've duplicated a lot of work with screenshots and tech+bulbing plans that others have already discussed. bc has been publishing a spreadsheet with GScientist timing estimates for several weeks. I compared three different tech plans just today. bc and I have already had a discussion containing what we consider to be sound numbers that an academy is fine for the time span out to MM, and will be better still if we need more tech. By all means contribute your own ideas, but please consider whether they have a chance of bettering what others in the team have already suggested.