That's true. This is sthg we must not forget! I think the AI can't handle this as good as the HI! And it really would be a cosmetic feature. not really necessary. I will already make those mercenary guilds conquerable so that you are able create those UUs in foreign cities, if there is such a guild.... to make buildings transportable (obelisk) is really not an important thing to implement, I think.... with the slaves, a version of a builder or architect is already given. slaves was used for teaching, security and of course hard work.
Pie's Ancient Europe
- Thread starter pie_at
- Start date
Yeah, but moundraken's builder guy could replace the mechanism, that the Huns can conquer the tech construction and are hence in possession of a blueprint to build aqueducts in every damn Hun city. That's awful. It's much more realistic, if you make an architect or builder prisoner, who will build one aqueduct in only one Hun city for you, not more. With a knife at his throat. Or with the reward of being able to build another beautiful aqueduct. Like Wernher von Braun and the NASA
.
mourndraken
King
more about the architect..
Like Keinpferd, I wouldn't want them to be able to spam infrastructure, and I don't want these wild civilizations to be leading the engineering, but it would add to the enjoyment of the game if they can threaten the best minds with sharp iron, and make things happen.
.. this is the paragraph that brought these thoughts out.
Like Keinpferd, I wouldn't want them to be able to spam infrastructure, and I don't want these wild civilizations to be leading the engineering, but it would add to the enjoyment of the game if they can threaten the best minds with sharp iron, and make things happen.
hm. ok. how shall the Great Builder comes alive. buildable for all civilized CIVs? conquerable for the rest? can build what? library, aqueduct, levee what else?
the next difficulty is, that a building depends on a TECH.... think about it!
the next difficulty is, that a building depends on a TECH.... think about it!
How about making the "engineer" the guy for levees, city walls and other "necessity"-structures, while the "builder" is more into art and responsible for temples and theaters, and such? Would it be possible to separate these two categories of specialists from the general birth rate of specialists, so that builders and engineers are born more often? Their birth rate shouldn't come in the way of the birth rate of priests and scientists.When you're in need for a scientist to found an academy, you may be at a stage of your game, when you're needing a builder just as urgently. The builder thing shouldn't have any annoying side effects.
Isn't that the case with the priest building the Mars temple (Roman shrine), too? I guess, the Mars temple has a certain tech requirement, too.
Magus Zarkara
Chieftain
Quoting myself to add more stuff.
I've attached a screenshot that is showing a enemy city (espionage ftw). It shows exactly what I dislike. Several of his cities were like that, needless to say he got plagued a few turns later. They focus too much on growing cities, no need to have that many farms. So they end up having lots of plagues.
From what I could see, here's how this this works. Military unit costs is only used if you currently have a civic that increases military unit cost by 1.
The civics that give +1 military unit cost are:
* Peasent Military (Military)
* Mercenaries (Military)
The civics that gives you free military units are:
* Dynasty (Sovereign)
* Forced recruitment (Military)
* Citizen army (Military)
What this means is that the bonus from Forced recruitment and Citzen Army is useless and the bonus from Dynasty is only useful if you are using Peasent Military or Mercenaries.
I started playing a random game as Augustus Caesar. So here are more stuff:
- Npcs trade Dye for nothing.
- There's a limit for the amount of experience gained from barbarians. Since the game focus on strong animals and barbarians, it would be nice if this limit was removed. On this random game I'm playing. There are a LOT of barbarian, I'm still fighting them for territory and already have heavy cavalry. A lot of units got 20 exp and didn't get more, so I switched those for other ones, but I think that it makes sense for this mod to not have this limitation.
- Triarii is a spear-bearer unit that has a bonus of 75% against melee units. This makes this unit almost useless since every melee unit has a huge bonus against spear-bearers. Even in the case that he does have more total str when fighting against a melee unit (like shield-bearers), it's not an ideal fight anyway because there are better units to counter melee. It's also weird that he upgrades to a unit that is good against mounted units. Also, he has the strategy description of hoplites. Hoplit is the same, he went from a very powerful unit (I used to love them) to a not so good one. Maybe if he had some huge bonus against melee to compensate for the bonus that melee already has on them.
- Several barbarian cities have the same names as cities from other civs. So it's common to see 2 Babylons, 2 Delphis, etc.
- Once you convert an enemy unit he changes to your civ model (or skin, not sure how it's called). It would be nice if those units remained with their old models, if something like this is possible.
- Animals can use roads, I got attacked by some really fast bears, it hurts.
Maybe it would make sense if they couldn't get any bonus from roads?
- Farm has the same hotkey as irrigation canals. It would be nice to give irrigation canals a unique hotkey.
- It would be better if Pantheon was always destroyed on city capture. Since it's a limited building.
- Promote unit Hero says "free upgrades" but that's not true.
- Mounted units can pillage after combat, this makes them even more annoying because of Using roads promotion. In my opinion they shouldn't be able to pillage after combat.
- Using roads is so easy to get that it's annoying. The AI almost always gets it so they can easily walk over your territory and really annoy you. Maybe making it hard to get or making you walk at a reduced rate on enemy road would be nice.
- Salt was discovered on one of my mines. What I think is weird is that I have to change the mine to a Salt mine so that I can get it. Is it really necessary to have a different type of mine for it? If it is, maybe it's possible to add an event when salt is discovered that asks if you want to change the mine for no cost?
- War elephant has the same str as heavy cavalry and horse/camel archers. This makes them not that useful since it doesn't take long to research Saddle after Elephant Husbandry and their bonuses isn't really that great. The advantage you have with them is quickly gone.
- I've seen several description of units and buildings that are wrong or have some weird code instead of them. Do you want them to be reported or it's a work in progress?
- Popular Assembly is really overpowered. By the time I get my cities are with pop 9-11 full of slaves/gladiators and can already have some or several specialists. The amount of gold this generates is huge. Not sure if this is a problem or not but just thought about commenting on it.
- Sometimes rebellion makes no sense to me. I'm there winning the war, which means my army should be happy, just captured a city with a huge stack (I know, I know, shouldn't walk around with a huge stack). Then the units that stayed behind because they already attacked rebel on the next turn. This makes no sense to me, why would they even want to rebel? Maybe you could make a unit that attacked not to count for rebellion? I'm going back to using generals just to avoid this problem.
- Barely escape sometimes is weird. Check the screenshot.
I've attached a screenshot that is showing a enemy city (espionage ftw). It shows exactly what I dislike. Several of his cities were like that, needless to say he got plagued a few turns later. They focus too much on growing cities, no need to have that many farms. So they end up having lots of plagues.
- How does military unit cost works? In my financial advisor it says like this:
175: Unit cost for 175 units (free support for 86)
0
6
Total Cost: 181
Two things I've noticed: making military units increases the unit cost and using a civic that increases free military units doesn't decrease the
From what I could see, here's how this this works. Military unit costs is only used if you currently have a civic that increases military unit cost by 1.
The civics that give +1 military unit cost are:
* Peasent Military (Military)
* Mercenaries (Military)
The civics that gives you free military units are:
* Dynasty (Sovereign)
* Forced recruitment (Military)
* Citizen army (Military)
What this means is that the bonus from Forced recruitment and Citzen Army is useless and the bonus from Dynasty is only useful if you are using Peasent Military or Mercenaries.
I started playing a random game as Augustus Caesar. So here are more stuff:
- Npcs trade Dye for nothing.
- There's a limit for the amount of experience gained from barbarians. Since the game focus on strong animals and barbarians, it would be nice if this limit was removed. On this random game I'm playing. There are a LOT of barbarian, I'm still fighting them for territory and already have heavy cavalry. A lot of units got 20 exp and didn't get more, so I switched those for other ones, but I think that it makes sense for this mod to not have this limitation.
- Triarii is a spear-bearer unit that has a bonus of 75% against melee units. This makes this unit almost useless since every melee unit has a huge bonus against spear-bearers. Even in the case that he does have more total str when fighting against a melee unit (like shield-bearers), it's not an ideal fight anyway because there are better units to counter melee. It's also weird that he upgrades to a unit that is good against mounted units. Also, he has the strategy description of hoplites. Hoplit is the same, he went from a very powerful unit (I used to love them) to a not so good one. Maybe if he had some huge bonus against melee to compensate for the bonus that melee already has on them.
- Several barbarian cities have the same names as cities from other civs. So it's common to see 2 Babylons, 2 Delphis, etc.
- Once you convert an enemy unit he changes to your civ model (or skin, not sure how it's called). It would be nice if those units remained with their old models, if something like this is possible.
- Animals can use roads, I got attacked by some really fast bears, it hurts.
Maybe it would make sense if they couldn't get any bonus from roads?- Farm has the same hotkey as irrigation canals. It would be nice to give irrigation canals a unique hotkey.
- It would be better if Pantheon was always destroyed on city capture. Since it's a limited building.
- Promote unit Hero says "free upgrades" but that's not true.
- Mounted units can pillage after combat, this makes them even more annoying because of Using roads promotion. In my opinion they shouldn't be able to pillage after combat.
- Using roads is so easy to get that it's annoying. The AI almost always gets it so they can easily walk over your territory and really annoy you. Maybe making it hard to get or making you walk at a reduced rate on enemy road would be nice.
- Salt was discovered on one of my mines. What I think is weird is that I have to change the mine to a Salt mine so that I can get it. Is it really necessary to have a different type of mine for it? If it is, maybe it's possible to add an event when salt is discovered that asks if you want to change the mine for no cost?
- War elephant has the same str as heavy cavalry and horse/camel archers. This makes them not that useful since it doesn't take long to research Saddle after Elephant Husbandry and their bonuses isn't really that great. The advantage you have with them is quickly gone.
- I've seen several description of units and buildings that are wrong or have some weird code instead of them. Do you want them to be reported or it's a work in progress?
- Popular Assembly is really overpowered. By the time I get my cities are with pop 9-11 full of slaves/gladiators and can already have some or several specialists. The amount of gold this generates is huge. Not sure if this is a problem or not but just thought about commenting on it.
- Sometimes rebellion makes no sense to me. I'm there winning the war, which means my army should be happy, just captured a city with a huge stack (I know, I know, shouldn't walk around with a huge stack). Then the units that stayed behind because they already attacked rebel on the next turn. This makes no sense to me, why would they even want to rebel? Maybe you could make a unit that attacked not to count for rebellion? I'm going back to using generals just to avoid this problem.
- Barely escape sometimes is weird. Check the screenshot.
Attachments
1. I think it would be nice if there would not be a exp limit for barbarians.
2. Please dont change the Popular Assembly, its the only way you can support a huge empire.
If I interpret your quoting yourself as a means of keeping earlier posts of yours, that haven't been addressed yet, alive and visible, it's showing me, how useful a PAE subforum would be. One could easily find, what you said about a topic a week or a year ago. And it makes single postings more readable and less info-war. But I doubt that Pie got the time to maintain a subforum over here or is even thinking about it.
Anyway, let me pick one of your things: The melee strength of Triarii is meant to even out exactly the anti-spear abilities of certain melee unit types, for the very early Triarii are in the game a spear unit (UNITCOMBAT_SPEARMAN) but were in fact an Italic sort of Hoplite placeholder (therefore good melee fighters). The next upgrade of them, the improved Triarii of the republican Roman army, were covering the back and flanks from cavalry attacks and as classical spear bearers the only part of the Roman army with a dedicated anti-mounted ability, and therefore the anti-mounted bonus. Another example of how an earlier unit upgrades in a newer one with seemingly contradicting abilities: very early Italic Hasta-fighters become Hastati, even though they didn't carry a "hasta" (=hoplite spear) anymore and adopted a quite opposing fighting style. Just like certain modern helicopter regiments sometimes are called cavalry regiment, because they developed from one, historically I know, you know all that Just explaining it a bit more, and for people who just occasionally check in, to give them an idea, to what military historical depth PAE has taken it
in the meantime.Ah, and we shouldn't forget, that we're not talking about PAE V. Just because PAE doesn't feel like Beta anymore that's still what it is. So, it's important to keep collecting data, like you did, how Civic changes work out, and all that.
mourndraken
King
Hello Pie !
I will reply to the questions that you raised about a builder unit within the next day. I have a good game of PAE going on and it has me very entertained ! What would you say about having chariots dropping some movement if they are damaged. I am not sure if the mechanics are similar to what occurs with ships ..
Edit - Why can't Syrian Mercenary Archers load onto chariots?
I will reply to the questions that you raised about a builder unit within the next day. I have a good game of PAE going on and it has me very entertained ! What would you say about having chariots dropping some movement if they are damaged. I am not sure if the mechanics are similar to what occurs with ships ..
Edit - Why can't Syrian Mercenary Archers load onto chariots?
stolenrays
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2009
- Messages
- 2,062
PIE, the Gorgan Wall looks great. Everything works except the in game art is still the old Great Wall. It uses L_System_Great_Wall, but when I looked in City_L_System.xml, I found no nif pointer. Know what to do?
It looks like, whatever favors the AI's financial advantage over the human player, is helping the AI to make up for its tactical dumbness. For example, the AI chooses Noble Armor as a standard promotion, while the human player would ruin himself by doing that. Another idea to give the AI a chance to buy something to become a little stronger, would be a vexillum unit.
Not only the Romans had those. There's historical evidence, that other peoples used them, too. The Gauls, for instance, had fancy vexilla with horns, snakenecks, grate-pyramids…
Lately, somebody pointed to a feature, which could be a model for the vexillum: In FFH, there is an immobile, hovering unit called Orthus' axe, which can be picked up to strength-boost the unit carrying it. If it dies, the axe reappears and can be picked up again.
But maybe an original vexillum is already existing in another mod?
A vexillum could also help reduce the danger of army rebellion, or it could completely take over that task from the general unit, that currently serves that purpose. The latter, because the AI hardly attaches generals to units anymore and rather settles them in cities. That's the reason, why the AI is so much more often struck by rebellious stacks: because, in the state as is, there must be generals in the stack to prevent it. Of course, a vexillum should be limited or hardcapped through costs or numbers to avoid monster stacks returning.
Not only the Romans had those. There's historical evidence, that other peoples used them, too. The Gauls, for instance, had fancy vexilla with horns, snakenecks, grate-pyramids…
Lately, somebody pointed to a feature, which could be a model for the vexillum: In FFH, there is an immobile, hovering unit called Orthus' axe, which can be picked up to strength-boost the unit carrying it. If it dies, the axe reappears and can be picked up again.
But maybe an original vexillum is already existing in another mod?
A vexillum could also help reduce the danger of army rebellion, or it could completely take over that task from the general unit, that currently serves that purpose. The latter, because the AI hardly attaches generals to units anymore and rather settles them in cities. That's the reason, why the AI is so much more often struck by rebellious stacks: because, in the state as is, there must be generals in the stack to prevent it. Of course, a vexillum should be limited or hardcapped through costs or numbers to avoid monster stacks returning.
Calanthian
Emperor
On barbarian experience:
perhaps it can be made that fighting against barbs gives you half the experience of normal, but there is no limit anymore..
then you always gain exp when fighting barbs, but there is still a difference with fighting civs..
perhaps it can be made that fighting against barbs gives you half the experience of normal, but there is no limit anymore..
then you always gain exp when fighting barbs, but there is still a difference with fighting civs..
mourndraken
King
I'm not convinced that barbarians need any change. Our units can always get experience from destroying improvements, even our own. At a point in the game, barbarian just become a nuisance, rather than a danger.
Vexillum would be a great assist to help the AI. If they are added, I feel that they should only be available to the AI, and can't be captured by a thinking human. Would love to make textures that change a floating axe into a Vexillum !
Hi pie
I have worked on the translation to spanish of your mod with other peoples. I'm Wolfman's forum partner in todocivilization, an he says me to introduce myself here and post the job.
It's based in the beta 2 so, only remains for translating concepts and pedia files. Also, while I play this mod I'm improving localizations.
Greetings
I have worked on the translation to spanish of your mod with other peoples. I'm Wolfman's forum partner in todocivilization, an he says me to introduce myself here and post the job.
It's based in the beta 2 so, only remains for translating concepts and pedia files. Also, while I play this mod I'm improving localizations.
Greetings
Nuisance:
.Vexillum: Cool, you know how to do that? Pie just said on the German forum, he's doing the vexillum, if we find art for it. He expanded the vexillum idea to have it zero out all rebellion danger in a stack. (Good for the AI, because building lots of units is one of her few talents, and there will be only one vexillum, thus one killer stack.)
I wouldn't know, whether the vexillum has to be based on that FFH axe necessarily. Isn't a spear without a unit "hovering" on a plot? I saw something like that in coffee junkie's thread as a bug example.
Here's some less Roman centered vexillum footage:
…Dacians
…Gauls
…and the Parthians with a suspiciously similar taste in pennants like the Dacians
.I didn't search for Egyptians and North African ones, but I guess, one Roman, one West, one East will do.
mourndraken
King
.. I know where to begin.
If we can find a unit that has multiple textures, setting any of them to grey will make whatever the texture is attached to to become invisible, in game. Use a unit with multiple textures so that just the weapon is visible. Mechanics would be to somehow mount the unit without looking like they are sitting in mid air like magic .. I think it can be done; there is a kfm application in the database that might be able to adjust the animation. It will take some experiment to craft this. If there is such a thing already created in another mod, then this plan isn't needed.
thx for your postings, I noticed every bug and here's my answer to some issues:
@Zakara:
Ah ok: how should I change it, what do you think is best?
@Triarii: as Keinpferd already said: it is a short living spear bearer unit with advantages against riders of its time.
@stolen:
@calan:
but if not, I remove the limit but change the amount of gaining exp!
@Rual:
@mourn:
Great job, if you can manage that. I don't know how to merge two skins during gameplay. In FFH, it's just a promotion on a unit.
But a general unit uses the same technics... hm... I really don't know... this would be great! It can be the general technics with this stab in his hand... I hope you can get it!
@Inyah:
replace those patch files with the old files. It starts with the Assets folder, so you have to unpack it and copy the unpacked files into the PAEV-Beta folder to replace everything in the Assets.
@Zakara:
Ah ok: how should I change it, what do you think is best?
@Triarii: as Keinpferd already said: it is a short living spear bearer unit with advantages against riders of its time.
I could imagine, that this is because of the masses of cities. and I think it's not really a problem, lots of cities had the same name..
Because those mines are different (XML and skin). I think this is SDK coded.
Yes, that's at work...
@stolen:
hm.. I don't know, do you?
@calan:
that's a very good idea. I think I have to set a limit because it's in the handicap-xml.
but if not, I remove the limit but change the amount of gaining exp!
@Rual:
Oh, great! I will implement the text. (I hope I do not change other translations with that.....)
@mourn:
Great job, if you can manage that. I don't know how to merge two skins during gameplay. In FFH, it's just a promotion on a unit.
But a general unit uses the same technics... hm... I really don't know... this would be great! It can be the general technics with this stab in his hand... I hope you can get it!
@Inyah:
replace those patch files with the old files. It starts with the Assets folder, so you have to unpack it and copy the unpacked files into the PAEV-Beta folder to replace everything in the Assets.
Well, I found some mistakes in beta 2 that I don't know if you have fixed...
In PAEGameTextInfos.xml:
It's appears %3 gold, but it's incorrect. I assumed that it's %d3 gold.
the wonder %3, is that correct? maybe %s3?
At last, a suggestion for a leaderhead for this mod:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viriathus
In PAEGameTextInfos.xml:
HTML:
<Tag>TXT_KEY_POPUP_VASSAL_01</Tag>
<English>[H1]The enemy is defeated![\H1][NEWLINE]An ambassador of %s1 (%s2) offers you %3 gold to become your vassal! Do you take this offer?[NEWLINE]</English>
<French>[H1]L'ennemi est vaincu ![\H1][NEWLINE]Un émissaire de %s1 (%s2) vous offre %3 [ICON_GOLD] pour devenir votre vassal ! Acceptez-vous l'offre ?[NEWLINE]</French>
<German>[H1]Der Gegner ist geschlagen![\H1][NEWLINE]Ein Botschafter von %s1 (%s2) bietet Euch %d3 Gold an, Euer Vasall zu werden! Nehmt ihr dieses Angebot an?[NEWLINE]</German>
<Italian>[H1]The enemy is defeated![\H1][NEWLINE]An ambassador of %s1 (%s2) offers you %3 gold to become your vassal! Do you take this offer?[NEWLINE]</Italian>
<Spanish>[H1]¡El enemigo es destruído![\H1][NEWLINE]Un embajador de %s1 (%s2) te ofrece %d3 de oro para convertirse en tu vasallo! ¿Coges la oferta?[NEWLINE]</Spanish>
</TEXT>It's appears %3 gold, but it's incorrect. I assumed that it's %d3 gold.
HTML:
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_DISASTER_DESTROYED_WONDER</Tag>
<English>A terrible natural disaster destroyed the wonder %3 in the %s1 city of %s2!</English>
<French>Une terrible catastrophe naturelle a détruit une merveille (%3) dans la ville %s1 de %s2 !</French>
<German>Eine schreckliche Umweltkatastrophe zerstörte das Wunder %3 in der %s1 Stadt %2!</German>
<Italian>A terrible natural disaster destroyed the wonder %3 in the %s1 city of %s2!</Italian>
<Spanish>¡Un terrible desastre natural destruyó la maravilla %3 en la ciudad %s1 de %s2!</Spanish>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_DISASTER_DESTROYED_WONDER_ERDBEBEN</Tag>
<English>A catastrophic earthquake destroyed the wonder %3 in the %s1 city of %s2!</English>
<French>Un terrible tremblement de terre a détruit une merveille (%3) dans la ville %s1 de %s2 !</French>
<German>Ein katastrophales Erdbeben zerstörte das Wunder %3 in der %s1 Stadt %2!</German>
<Italian>A catastrophic earthquake destroyed the wonder %3 in the %s1 city of %s2!</Italian>
<Spanish>¡Un catastrófico terremoto destruyó la maravilla %3 en la ciudad %s1 de %s2!</Spanish>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_DISASTER_DESTROYED_WONDER_KOMET</Tag>
<English>A death bringing comet destroyed the wonder %3 in the %s1 city of %s2!</English>
<French>Une effroyable comète a détruit une merveille (%3) dans la ville %s1 de %s2 !</French>
<German>Ein totbringender Komet zerstörte das Wunder %3 in der %s1 Stadt %2!</German>
<Italian>A death bringing comet destroyed the wonder %3 in the %s1 city of %s2!</Italian>
<Spanish>¡Un cometa mortífero destruyó la maravilla %3 en la ciudad %s1 de %s2!</Spanish>
</TEXT>At last, a suggestion for a leaderhead for this mod:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viriathus
mourndraken
King
Hello Pie.
I had not thought of setting it up as a promotion. That will work very well:
some code to make the Axe add itself from one destroyed unit to the next one in the stack. Will have to set it up as a different type of promotion from the great general. At least the concept can be tested out on the Orthus Axe until it can be reskinned.
I had not thought of setting it up as a promotion. That will work very well:
some code to make the Axe add itself from one destroyed unit to the next one in the stack. Will have to set it up as a different type of promotion from the great general. At least the concept can be tested out on the Orthus Axe until it can be reskinned.
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