Deity Suleiman Map
- Thread starter Strickl3r
- Start date
Alright interesting to see arguments for another playstyle. I usually go clean GS or cottages + maybe 1 bulb when going for an early engineering war. Maybe Oracle CoL Gambit and do the early caste thing. I'm always very sceptical with wonders and try to get my units fast by saving up forests(which we have quite a lot here).
Going broke is obv always an issue with this kind of wars.
(have to admit I'm mostly influenced by the video content from AZ and he never builds that stuff, he seems to be very stingy with his production and builds research or wealth very often)
Going broke is obv always an issue with this kind of wars.
(have to admit I'm mostly influenced by the video content from AZ and he never builds that stuff, he seems to be very stingy with his production and builds research or wealth very often)
ben-jammin
Emperor
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Probably the multiple wars and
Spoiler :
I think the human player being first to music and philo may slow down the AI tech pace on a pangea just by denying them (and all the beakers they would broker them for).
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Well, there are plenty of ways. Some maps are more friendly with some ways; some other maps are more friendly with other ways.
Then there are styles, right. Most players are blind to some aspects of the game. However, being blind to an aspect of the game saves resources, it allows to focus harder on some other aspects.
[Closure of the first part of my shadow, 625 BC, shows a typical case of partial blindness. Build in Ankara is way too risky, race cannot be won and other things would be better priority.]
Balance vs Focus is an equilibrium at work, or a stake, in every game, and then there is the question of what focus(es) should be emphazised, 'cause it's a choice.
You're reluctant to build wonders and that's fine: wonders are dangerous if one relies too heavily on them. I'll often favour builder/RExer strategies, so wonders I like
AbsoluteZero whips absolutely, lives and dies for warring & never builds a library nor grows a city outside his capital. Of course he doesn't build wonders! 
What's more important than the exact path one chooses is the timeframe in which a strategy can pay off. Strategies compete against each other. They're all conditional, with different conditions, costs & rewards. Choosing a strategy that is fit and "fitting up" the Empire is what matters.
If two strategies compete to achieve the same objective, then comparison is a simple matter of cost & time. It's trickier when objectives compete against each other (back to the Balance vs Focus theme).
ps: I've opened one of your spoiler pictures: ouch! Double vassal is nasty. That is another argument for early war on Pangaea (or at least early war preparations): better map control and reaction against runaway AIs.
Getting to freebie/wonder techs deters the AIs from going there. Hence, it accrues the relative advantage of the player towards that tech and the ones it unlocks (AIs will still get beakers every turn!).
Getting Philo first can lock the AIs out of Nationalism/Liberalism for a long time. Before that, CoL locks out of Philo and Civil Service: relevant techs!
Music, on the other hand, is only a pre-requisite to Military Tradition. So it's not a very good tech to delay the AIs. Freebies + wonders can make Music an appealing tech, though. It is, therefore, a lot better for trade than Philosophy.
"may slow down the AI tech pace on a pangea just by denying them (and all the beakers they would broker them for)"
Maybe obvious but it should be noted that brokering a tech = end of slowing down the tech pace
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
75AD
Related to this post:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12534237&postcount=25
Screenshots:
Exactly what happened to me. It was actually so bad that I had to research CS by myself and will probably have to research Nationalism and Gunpowder. That'll slow me down considerably (low bpt). Usually you want to trade for one or both of them (and for CS or Music). Bad play from my part. Should have anticipated that.
Related to this post:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12534237&postcount=25
Screenshots:
Spoiler :
Exactly what happened to me. It was actually so bad that I had to research CS by myself and will probably have to research Nationalism and Gunpowder. That'll slow me down considerably (low bpt). Usually you want to trade for one or both of them (and for CS or Music). Bad play from my part. Should have anticipated that.
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
Strickler, 1550AD domination, heh?
Good game!
Good game!
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
I'm not done yet and Monty is plotting
Even better. Let him capture some border flatland city, then use canons to soften him and kill his stack with no losses. You can't lose now.
@BiC
Great recovery and serves you right for such an aggressive settling and making yourself a land target
.ToA in a early bulb game doesn't make too much sense. That is simply too much GP pollution and getting the right GP is matter of luck. Also, having ToA reduces value of GM trade missions (does it not?).
But that is just my opinion.
Looking forward to seeing where this one goes. That is one exciting game to play.
@Ben
It seems I'll get cuirs about the same date you got them. You also went for more cities early so our games should be comparable. Good luck!
ben-jammin
Emperor
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Getting to freebie/wonder techs deters the AIs from going there. Hence, it accrues the relative advantage of the player towards that tech and the ones it unlocks (AIs will still get beakers every turn!).
Getting Philo first can lock the AIs out of Nationalism/Liberalism for a long time. Before that, CoL locks out of Philo and Civil Service: relevant techs!
Music, on the other hand, is only a pre-requisite to Military Tradition. So it's not a very good tech to delay the AIs. Freebies + wonders can make Music an appealing tech, though. It is, therefore, a lot better for trade than Philosophy.
"may slow down the AI tech pace on a pangea just by denying them (and all the beakers they would broker them for)"
Maybe obvious but it should be noted that brokering a tech = end of slowing down the tech pace
It depends on how you broker the tech. In my case I traded Music around to almost every AI within a handful of turns, so none of those AIs got any additional beakers out of it by brokering it themselves. My experience with AI tech trading is that they will trade with each other the same way they trade with the human player, ie. generally for techs they are already researching. So an AI that has a monopoly on Music will just trade it once for a tech they've put some beakers into (if it's a tech with an appropriate number of beakers), and that AI will then do the same, etc. So on a pangea where everybody is in contact with everybody, a tech like music can be traded for a bunch of free beakers by several AIs. But in my game only I got those beakers, the AIs never got a chance to broker it.
ben-jammin
Emperor
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Shaka, ridiculous tech pace, very nice. I also have almost never been able to trade for Nationalism or Gunpowder when going for an MT lib as early as possible. Or when I am able to trade for those it's because there are other advanced AIs getting very close to Lib and I wouldn't necessarily want to propel them along the tech tree even faster. Sometimes you get lucky and can trade some junk for Gunpowder.
Stickl3r looks like you've got it pretty well wrapped up.
Stickl3r looks like you've got it pretty well wrapped up.
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
You can trade for every tech you want if you play your diplo well. I was sloppy and very rusty and forgot to trade with right people for right techs. If I have traded Music and Philo to an AI, chance of getting Nationalism when I self research Gunpowder would have been much greater. Also, when you have Raggy on map, you can often get Gunpowder very early (you give him every tech on the way to it) and things like that. Involves loooooooongterm planning.
Bottom line: by crippling AI, I have crippled myself.
As you can see, war infra is already in place at 75AD. Waiting for ~15 turns to self research Nationalism and Gunpowder is a huge opportunity cost. Therefore WK will have to be attacked by trebs and yannis.
Edit: Great win, Strickler
!
Bottom line: by crippling AI, I have crippled myself.
As you can see, war infra is already in place at 75AD. Waiting for ~15 turns to self research Nationalism and Gunpowder is a huge opportunity cost. Therefore WK will have to be attacked by trebs and yannis.
Edit: Great win, Strickler
!
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
Huh, I don't want to, but I'll have to self research Nationalism.
Taj Mahal is an expensive wonder for someone planning to whip his not so many cities to the ground. With 10 cities, I'd consider it. Now, with only 6, it seems better to pump units. Who knows, maybe there'll still be time for Taj when more cities are captured. AIs are slow.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
@BiC
Great recovery and serves you right for such an aggressive settling and making yourself a land target
ToA in a early bulb game doesn't make too much sense. That is simply too much GP pollution and getting the right GP is matter of luck. Also, having ToA reduces value of GM trade missions (does it not?).
But that is just my opinion.
Looking forward to seeing where this one goes. That is one exciting game to play.
Agreed, yes to all! Your position is excellent. Thanks for the screenies. Units: 4 workers & 6 GS stand out!
I've played further, control slipped a little and I've been swamped in a war. Not sure how it'll end up. It may be ugly, it's not quite lost, yet
I've lost too much pressing the front for speed; couldn't maintain mass.
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
Pre 1200AD victory keeps avoiding me. This time AP made some forced peace deals and time was lost in rearanging stacks, movement and replanning the attacks.
.
Declaration/capitulation dates (AD):
Screenies and a save before victory in no particular order (in hurry):
Spoiler :
Declaration/capitulation dates (AD):
Spoiler :
)Screenies and a save before victory in no particular order (in hurry):
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
Agreed, yes to all! Your position is excellent. Thanks for the screenies. Units: 4 workers & 6 GS stand out!
I've played further, control slipped a little and I've been swamped in a war. Not sure how it'll end up. It may be ugly, it's not quite lost, yet
I've lost too much pressing the front for speed; couldn't maintain mass.
There are always nukes, I guess.
Good luck!
