benjamin28
Warlord
Hey guys!
There has been a debate about how Vanilla civs are starting to look somewhat dull and not as exciting as the new ones, especially since the incorporation of a lot of features from G&K and BNW. True, we got new France and Arabia, some minor additions to Iroquois and India, and it has been announced a change to Japan and Germany. So, why don’t we imagine an overhaul of some of them, trying to mix in things like Tourism, Trade Routes, Religion, etc?
As an addition, I’ve suggested new leaders for some civs, with new UAs tied to their respective personalities. Well, in fact this is highly unlikely to happen, since, according to the devs, creating new leaderscreens is a lenghty process. So, if you don’t agree with this idea, you can simply consider that some civs could have two UAs to choose from.
I won’t create a mod with this data, it’s pure suggestion. Please don’t turn this thread into a debate about whether some civs are worthy of overhaul or not. There are dozens of threads about that already. But any suggestion, criticism or addition will be happily received. Also, if you like some of the ideas and want to use for a mod or anything, you’re free to do it.
Credits for some ideas go to wigwam and his "Reinventing the wheel" thread; ferretbacon, whose ideas for India have been used... a second time And several other forum users and their contributions (some of them may have been cribbed unconsciously ).
So, here we go! Things that are not listed are unchanged. The most notable changes are underlined.
Arabia:
Leader: Abd al-Malik
UA: Ships of the desert: Trade routes generate +1 faith per turn and spread the home city's religion twice as effectively. Oil resources are doubled.
Leader: Harun al-Rashid
UA: House of wisdom: During a Golden Age, every religious building produces +1 Science . Every Great Work of Literature produce +2 Science , or +4 if it’s from a foreign civilization.
Aztecs
UU: Jaguar warrior: replaces Longswordsman. If it kills an enemy, it heals 25 hit points and has a 33% chance to turn melee and ranged units into Workers.
Leader: Montezuma
UA: Sacrificial captives: Before Printing Press is discovered, you can sacrifice a Worker in a city with a Temple to receive Faith . City-States are more easily bullied and provide more gold as tribute.
Byzantium:
Leader: Theodora
UA: Bastion of faith: Every Wall produces +1 Faith and every Castle produces +3 Faith per turn. You can create Cathedrals, even if you didn’t choose the Cathedrals follower belief or if it has been chosen by another civ.
Celts:
Leader: Boudicca
UA: Great expedition: Upon defeating a Barbarian unit inside an encampment, there is a 50% chance you earn 25 Gold and they join your side. +1 Faith per city with an adjacent Forest.
China
Leader: Wu Zetian
UA: Hundred schools of thought: You can research Writing, Compass, Gunpowder and Printing Press in half-time. Great Scientist produce more Science when boost research.
Leader: Yongle
UA: All under Heaven: Every Chinese Great Work produce +1 culture . +10% production towards Wonder construction.
Denmark
Leader: Harald Bluetooth
UA: Viking fury: Embarked units have +1 Movement , defend at double strength and pay just 1 movement point to move from sea to land. Melee units pay no movement point cost to pillage.
England
Leader: Elizabeth
UA: Elizabethan splendor: When a Golden Age triggers, you receive a bonus Great Artist, Musician or Writer if the civilization has built the appropriate Guild. Great Artist produced this way cannot trigger their own Golden Ages.
Leader: Victoria
UA: Sun never sets
France
Leader: Louis XIV
UA: City of light: Museum and World Wonder theming bonuses are doubled in their capital. +10% production towards Wonder construction in the capital.
Leader: Napoleon Bonaparte
UA: Legion of Honor: Each time a Great General is born, you receive a boost to Great People production. Great Generals provide extra experience and a +10% flanking bonus to adjacent units.
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There has been a debate about how Vanilla civs are starting to look somewhat dull and not as exciting as the new ones, especially since the incorporation of a lot of features from G&K and BNW. True, we got new France and Arabia, some minor additions to Iroquois and India, and it has been announced a change to Japan and Germany. So, why don’t we imagine an overhaul of some of them, trying to mix in things like Tourism, Trade Routes, Religion, etc?
As an addition, I’ve suggested new leaders for some civs, with new UAs tied to their respective personalities. Well, in fact this is highly unlikely to happen, since, according to the devs, creating new leaderscreens is a lenghty process. So, if you don’t agree with this idea, you can simply consider that some civs could have two UAs to choose from.
I won’t create a mod with this data, it’s pure suggestion. Please don’t turn this thread into a debate about whether some civs are worthy of overhaul or not. There are dozens of threads about that already. But any suggestion, criticism or addition will be happily received. Also, if you like some of the ideas and want to use for a mod or anything, you’re free to do it.
Credits for some ideas go to wigwam and his "Reinventing the wheel" thread; ferretbacon, whose ideas for India have been used... a second time And several other forum users and their contributions (some of them may have been cribbed unconsciously ).
So, here we go! Things that are not listed are unchanged. The most notable changes are underlined.
Arabia:
Leader: Abd al-Malik
UA: Ships of the desert: Trade routes generate +1 faith per turn and spread the home city's religion twice as effectively. Oil resources are doubled.
Spoiler :
Arabia’s UU and UB are top tier as they are, so I didn’t want the UA to be too powerful. The 50% extended range of Caravans was added to another civ. I think Arabia needs to be a religious powerhouse, so generating Faith in some way looked like a logic step. I thought about increasing the Faith bonus to +2 when discovering Theology, but I think it could be too much.
Leader: Harun al-Rashid
UA: House of wisdom: During a Golden Age, every religious building produces +1 Science . Every Great Work of Literature produce +2 Science , or +4 if it’s from a foreign civilization.
Spoiler :
Arabia was a scientific power during most of its history. Harun’s House of wisdom was a famed library, specialized in preserving knowledge from older civilizations. That’s why foreign GWoL give extra Science. The question is: should this bonus be applied only to Arabia? Sounds natural but other players would have little incentive to give away their own GW. Or maybe every Arabian GWoL gives the +2 bonus to any civ, but only Arabia benefits from the +4.
Aztecs
UU: Jaguar warrior: replaces Longswordsman. If it kills an enemy, it heals 25 hit points and has a 33% chance to turn melee and ranged units into Workers.
Leader: Montezuma
UA: Sacrificial captives: Before Printing Press is discovered, you can sacrifice a Worker in a city with a Temple to receive Faith . City-States are more easily bullied and provide more gold as tribute.
Spoiler :
I’ve made a complete overhaul of the Aztecs. The killing-for-culture strategy has been translated to another civ. Aztec society was deeply religious and warfare was centered on capturing prisoners to sacrifice. The UU is now a little closer to the era when the Empire was strong (late medieval) and has nothing to do with jungles (something that was completely unconnected to this culture; in fact, they dwelled mostly on dry highlands). Instead, it synergizes with the UA, turning the pre-Renaissance years into a period of religious expansion. To counterbalance, they have incentive to stay away from a useful tech (Printing Press) if they want to preserve their ways. This was done because, at this point, Workers are too cheap to create in cities and could be in fact TOO powerful.
Civs at war with the Aztecs would prefer to attack them with horses and siege weapons, since these cannot be converted into Workers. By doing this, I wanted to reflect the Spanish conquest of Tenochtitlan.
On the other hand, the part about City-States shows how the Aztecs expanded through Mesoamerica: they usually didn’t occupy cities, but prefer to subjugate them and ask for tributes.
Notes: there has to be a delicate balance about how much Faith would every sacrificed Worker produce.
I also toyed with the idea of including Nezahualcoyotl as a second leader. A philosopher king, it would have added a nice touch to the usual warmonger civ. Anyway, I had so much Faith and Great People related civs I couldn’t really think of an original UA for him.
Civs at war with the Aztecs would prefer to attack them with horses and siege weapons, since these cannot be converted into Workers. By doing this, I wanted to reflect the Spanish conquest of Tenochtitlan.
On the other hand, the part about City-States shows how the Aztecs expanded through Mesoamerica: they usually didn’t occupy cities, but prefer to subjugate them and ask for tributes.
Notes: there has to be a delicate balance about how much Faith would every sacrificed Worker produce.
I also toyed with the idea of including Nezahualcoyotl as a second leader. A philosopher king, it would have added a nice touch to the usual warmonger civ. Anyway, I had so much Faith and Great People related civs I couldn’t really think of an original UA for him.
Byzantium:
Leader: Theodora
UA: Bastion of faith: Every Wall produces +1 Faith and every Castle produces +3 Faith per turn. You can create Cathedrals, even if you didn’t choose the Cathedrals follower belief or if it has been chosen by another civ.
Spoiler :
Since the old UA has been assigned to India, I thought I could create something new to Byzantium. "Patriarchate of Constantinople" was too dependent on luck, since founding a religion is not always possible (especially on higher levels).
With the new UA, you have an incentive to fortify your cities and create a strong religion based around Cathedrals. This could be helpful to produce a lot of culture, in order to protect oneself from Tourism or to achieve a CV. Both options would fit Byzantium role as a protector of roman heritage and a religious civilization.
With the new UA, you have an incentive to fortify your cities and create a strong religion based around Cathedrals. This could be helpful to produce a lot of culture, in order to protect oneself from Tourism or to achieve a CV. Both options would fit Byzantium role as a protector of roman heritage and a religious civilization.
Celts:
Leader: Boudicca
UA: Great expedition: Upon defeating a Barbarian unit inside an encampment, there is a 50% chance you earn 25 Gold and they join your side. +1 Faith per city with an adjacent Forest.
Spoiler :
Comments: OK, this really needs to be changed. I’ve removed the Barbarian UA from Germany to add something more flavorful, but I think the Celts could benefit from it. Both Brennus and Boudicca were famous for uniting various tribes against a single enemy (in Brennus case, this was known by historians as “the Great Expedition”, hence the UA’s name). I don’t think the Celts should receive massive bonus to Faith, since this would allow creating an organized, formal religion… a bonus I see more fit with some other cultures, such as India, Arabia or Ethiopia.
Anyway, there’s a poor synergy between these elements. What would you do to improve it?
Anyway, there’s a poor synergy between these elements. What would you do to improve it?
China
Leader: Wu Zetian
UA: Hundred schools of thought: You can research Writing, Compass, Gunpowder and Printing Press in half-time. Great Scientist produce more Science when boost research.
Spoiler :
This is based around The Four Great Inventions, but didn’t want to call it that way because the word “Great” is overused in UAs. Anyway, I wanted to emphasize the role of science in Chinese culture. And, besides, the Great General thing was transferred to another civ. The Printing Press bonus could be very useful to found the World Congress.
On the other hand, the Great Scientist bonus should be adjusted to provide a reasonable bonus (not too powerful or too weak).
On the other hand, the Great Scientist bonus should be adjusted to provide a reasonable bonus (not too powerful or too weak).
Leader: Yongle
UA: All under Heaven: Every Chinese Great Work produce +1 culture . +10% production towards Wonder construction.
Spoiler :
Yongle created two World Wonders present in the game (the Porcelain Tower and the Forbidden Palace) and expanded another one (the Great Wall). This would require, anyway, changing Egypt UA. The idea behind more culture from GW is related to the Ming Dynasty growing influence and patronage of arts, though I didn’t want to fall again into the “produce more GWAM faster” idea. Beginning with this Dynasty, China turned into a more isolationist nation; in game terms, more culture equals more protection against foreign Tourism.
Comments: By the way, +1 culture per GW could be overpowered. Wu’s UA is powerful as well. Maybe I could nerf both, or, even better, nerf the Paper Maker. I always hated this strangely-named UB. Maybe produce only +1 Gold, instead of +2?
Comments: By the way, +1 culture per GW could be overpowered. Wu’s UA is powerful as well. Maybe I could nerf both, or, even better, nerf the Paper Maker. I always hated this strangely-named UB. Maybe produce only +1 Gold, instead of +2?
Denmark
Leader: Harald Bluetooth
UA: Viking fury: Embarked units have +1 Movement , defend at double strength and pay just 1 movement point to move from sea to land. Melee units pay no movement point cost to pillage.
Spoiler :
I haven’t really added a second UA or leader, but read through the forum for civs that are considered to need a change, and Denmark was among them. The addition is simple but substantial: it makes the Vikings transoceanic fleets a terrifying sight for any foe. Besides, I changed Songhai’s UA as well (see below).
England
Leader: Elizabeth
UA: Elizabethan splendor: When a Golden Age triggers, you receive a bonus Great Artist, Musician or Writer if the civilization has built the appropriate Guild. Great Artist produced this way cannot trigger their own Golden Ages.
Spoiler :
A different approach to Golden Ages-related abilities: you don’t necessarily want your GA to last longer, you'll just need MORE GAs. By imposing a bias towards Musicians and Writers I want to display what flourished the most during the Elizabethan era; at the same time, by shunning the Artist action to create GAs, I prevent an endless cycle of GWAM.
Leader: Victoria
UA: Sun never sets
Spoiler :
It remains the same as old. I wanted to include Winston Churchill but a new female leader is welcome and Victoria’s UA fits better her reign.
France
Leader: Louis XIV
UA: City of light: Museum and World Wonder theming bonuses are doubled in their capital. +10% production towards Wonder construction in the capital.
Spoiler :
There has been some complaint about France’s new UA: if you can’t get the Wonders you only have ONE museum left to enjoy the double theming bonus. And that’s it. So, now Paris has something small but useful to improve its civ.
Leader: Napoleon Bonaparte
UA: Legion of Honor: Each time a Great General is born, you receive a boost to Great People production. Great Generals provide extra experience and a +10% flanking bonus to adjacent units.
Spoiler :
The Legion of Honor was a recognition created during Napoleon’s government to replace the old nobility titles. The idea was to give a decent amount of money to encourage excellence in both the battlefield and the cultural and civil achievements.
As Napoleon, you’ll want to start as many wars as you can to receive more GGs. Since they provide more XP to nearby units, Generals are easier to get.
As Napoleon, you’ll want to start as many wars as you can to receive more GGs. Since they provide more XP to nearby units, Generals are easier to get.
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