Enemy Dow's me, I take one of his cities, everyone denounces me.

[Sharples]

I hate to make a thread like this since so many people have made threads about this. But this is just ridiculous, I get dow'd on by an aggressive AI, I take only one of his cities, and everyone denounces me because I am a warmonger.

How is that war mongering? If a leader Dow's me shouldn't they get the war monger penalty and not me? If they DoW me I should get no warmonger modifers even if I wipe the Civilization that DoW'd me... that just doesn't make sense.

Eventually a lot of leaders hated me for my 'war mongering' and they all DoW'd me. Everyone.

The game can't be this broke come on, I even had friendships from other leaders that DoW'd me.

And for anyone who says I've had a bad game, I urge you to try this yourself, or even take one city state, every single leader gets a hissy fit at you for doing so...

 

[reddishrecue]

This is why Mongolia gets wiped out so early sometimes. Were you the only one at war when you occupied the city? You can denounce other civilizations that are at war with others and occupy other cities too.

 

[DemonMaster]

I not long ago did play (on purpose) Rome warmonger style and conquer a city or two from each of my three neighbours (during "my era") and yes everybody hated me. To have long story very short, i was hated during the medieval era as well, but not as much. But my diplomatic actions made me accepted from the Renaissance era and on and I was the hero during the atomic era and finally won a diplomatic victory no less, not because I had a gazzilion CSs under my wings, I "bribed" three other AIs to vote for me and that (and Globalization) was enough. And yes, it was the same three neighbours that I took cities from that voted for me

I often take cities when I'm at war. Sure I can be hated for a while, especially the AI that lost the city. But not that extreme like you (OP) like to think. In your case, you are the offensive party, regardless if he was the one who DoW you, you are the one that take cities, you are the conquering one. If you want to fight a defensive war, take out his army and threaten his important cities and he will instead give you cities, no strings attached. But I guess I am talking for deaf ears. This has come up so many times now and there are always some people, like me, that answer that it is possible, it depend on how you do it. Sure I can agree that the AI is a little but jumpy when it comes to this, but this can also be used.

 

[Mr. Grieves]

You can take pretty much as many cities as you want, as long as the other leaders don't hate warmongers, and hate the one you're attacking more than they hate you. Since he or she was a warmonger, that shouldn't be too hard to arrange.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

And for anyone who says I've had a bad game, I urge you to try this yourself, or even take one city state, every single leader gets a hissy fit at you for doing so...

That's been like that since release

 

[Cromagnus]

That's been like that since release

I'm pretty certain the Extreme warmonger penalty for taking a CS is new for BNW.

 

[joncnunn]

I'm pretty certain the Extreme warmonger penalty for taking a CS is new for BNW.

Nope; taking a CS has always been extreme. It's just now labeled as such.

What is new to BNW is that there is now some penalty for taking a city other than the last. The penalty is X / (number of cities they now have + 1)

 

[docbud]

You can take pretty much as many cities as you want, as long as the other leaders don't hate warmongers, and hate the one you're attacking more than they hate you. Since he or she was a warmonger, that shouldn't be too hard to arrange.

I had that in a game the other night. Denmark was sharing a continent with me (I was playing as England). He gobbled up two CS's and the world was not at all happy with him. So I declared war. I took three of his cities, and liberated both CS's. At first I had a modifier that they were concerned about my warmongering, but that went away pretty quickly.

Denmark was left with one itty bitty city and the other AIs kept declaring war on him the rest of the game.

I was friends with everyone.

 

[NASAROG]

I'll one up you right here. I do not take their cities, I raise them. I've accepted that the A.I. will always stamp me as a warmonger, even though I've been conflict free since the dawn of time until I am forced into war.

 

[cakes]

taking a city by force isn't really a fair exchange for being warred against. there's nothing wrong with this mechanic

 

[Mr. Grieves]

Exactly, you're considered a warmonger for conquering enemy cities and killing half the civilian population. That's not really broken. Taking someone out who's really bugging you is usually worth it however, but only if you've got strong diplomatic relations with other civs.

 

[Mr. Grieves]

Perhaps the penalty for taking city states should be lowered a bit though, most of the AI tends to gang up on poor Ghenghis Khan all the time.

 

[reddishrecue]

Genghis Khan usually attacks a city state because that is his UA. He still does this with the extreme warmonger penalty though.

 

[Mr. Grieves]

Yeah exactly, and that's what usually gets him killed. The AI shouldn't get as pissy about it as they do, unless they are allied.

 

[reddishrecue]

The ai will try to take advantage and abuse along with other ais with the excuse that capturing the city state had an extreme penalty.

 

[GhostSalsa]

haha like 4 replies on this thread:

"taking cities from someone who DOW'd you is obviously evil i mean come on. but launch an aggressive war on the unpopular kid is good."

if you don't play diplomacy, your war is evil. if you do, your war is good. what counts is managing your cliques. it would be fine if the game intentionally included this backwards situation as a scathing satire of human morality, but judging from how many comments on this forum internalize it and package it into 'genocide is evil' as righteous advice, I think no such satire exists.

the warmonger penalty is a bad mechanic that doesn't do what it intends to. retaliatory conquest is a flavor gameplay style that has nothing to do with domination victories, it shouldn't be excluded from the game.

 

[Vitruvius]

You beat a country down so bad it will ask for peace and perhaps even give u a few cities. Thats how retaliatory war should be. However I do think civ should allow temporary occupation of a city so that the city can no longer retaliate but with the promise of giving it back .

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[Aristos]

... retaliatory conquest is a flavor gameplay style that has nothing to do with domination victories, it shouldn't be excluded from the game.

It's not. It just has consequences now, and forces you to manage them (or better, pre-manage them). It's just that some people seem to not be willing, or able, to re-learn strategies....

 

[Stacked_Deck]

Just destroy his army and surround one of his cities with troops, you can then demand a city in the peace treaty with no diplomatic repercussions with the rest of the world. If you're the one who declared war then you'll only have the minor penalty for the declaration and if you're diplomatically savvy your friends won't care at all. Every so often they'll be particularly stubborn and won't give out a city but you can still get a decent pay out.

 

[Sharples]

I DID, have friends. But the people that were not my friends denouced me, then they soon followed with a backstab because that is how the mechanic works. If a lot of people have denounced you for an unjustifiable reason, why not let your friends do it too?

I'm starting to give up on making friendships now, why not just avoid it all together I guess, I have had like four friends in one game, seven civilization denouce me for taking one city, then they do it too!

I don't see what I'm doing wrong, how am I warmongering for taking a city that someone DoW'd me on?

It gets even worse, for every time you take a city, the modifer will always usually get worse, starting with, Early concern (1st city take), Potential risk (2nd city take), global prominence (3rd city take), Dark age (fourth city take), even if you take cities from the same AI! And that they DoW you.

And before any questions if he had friends or not, he did have two friends, Siam and Indonesia. But on a large map an entire global denunciation for taking one city is pretty much unheard of. Even if the 'War Monger' penalty is EXTREME or MAJOR.

Imo, they have horribly balanced the warmongering.