Realism Invictus

[Hian the Frog]

Many of the cavalry units don't require horses anymore (modern cav for example). Is this intended?

Yes. It is.

The most modern cav units don't require horses. Horse supply wasn't a real problem to all armies pas renaissance era. That's what we had represented.

 

[Oktoberfest]

Do you guys think that Military drones (which play a pretty big part in today's world) will ever make it into the game?

 

[sjodster]

on a side note. Anyone know why I can't use the spy specialist button in the city screen? and yes, I have all the pertinent techs. I can select any of the others, just not the spy. It's really irritating.

This was an issue that appeared with the addition of the new craftsman specialist in r4720 and it was later fixed in r4737.

I suspect that you are running on a version where the bug was present, and that the next time you SVN update it should be fixed. But if you would like to continue your game and are handy with Subversion you can perform an SVN update of just the "CvMainInterface.py" file (located in Assets/Python/Screens/), which should correct the problem without breaking save compatibility.

 

[Drakarska]

My thx kind Sir, much appreciated.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

I faced this issue when playing Pangaea. What maps would you recommend for RI when playing on Standard/Large map size?

WorldGen not placing enough of certain resources when it generates maps is a known issue, and in upcoming revisions I think I will try to deal with it. Unfortunately I am unable to change the algorithm itself, but I will try reducing the amounts of luxury resources placed, so that other resources get more spots.

But still we need to add some incentive so that AI city manager doesn't screw with this. At start this is fine to micro but when you have a 10 city empire it quickly becomes annoying to manually force the city to work on the cottage because otherwise it would almost always work other tiles.

Indeed. We'll take steps to buff cottages a bit.

I still find them very underwhelming for most civs, on the other hand longbows are more than decent in most situations. There was one fundamental difference between xbows & lbows, xbows required minimum training compared to lbows which required years of training. Perhaps we can represent that in some way & buff xbows a bit. I know lbows requires an archery range & xbows don't, but we still need to make it a major difference. For example levies could be upgraded to xbows for some quick defence, give xbows some defensive perks, they might not be better defenders than lbows but still they should get non-attacked focused bonuses against melee units & so on.

We're not 100% decided on the particulars yet, but we will overhaul the archery line quite a bit. Expect crossbowmen to become much more of a "workhorse" unit.

Well after using 'Revolutionary' I think cruel is quite forgiving. Last time playing as Meji almost everybody hated me because of religion+revolutionary & 4-5 civs declared war on me because of that.

...aaaand it is now nerfed.

The point of my suggestion was to in some way add local buildings depending upon the local resources of the city. This way we might even be able to simplify some of the consumption & production of resources we currently have right now. Currently industrial era onwards it is quite hard to trade resources because many industries would stop working because you traded a resource with the other civ.

We don't have the ability to do this yet. It could indeed lead to quite a lot of cool buildings.

Also, it is a strange complaint regarding resources - for each resource you use in industrial production, there is a resource you output, and it can be traded just as well.

What I was trying to say is that the restrictions seemed to be slightly past that point where they would be ideal (difficult, but without the need for continuous building). Difficulty is good, grinding is bad.

Then it probably means that you are somewhat past your comfort zone when it comes to difficulty levels. For each person this margin is somewhere else. After a certain point the amount of minmaxing and micromanagement you have to do becomes a chore - and that's when you know you probably should go for lower difficulty, even if you could have won on higher.

I personally never play past Monarch, even though my knowledge of how stuff works and experience would make it quite possible for me to compete on higher levels - but I don't really want to micromanage every decision, so I settled for a lower difficulty level that forgives a somewhat relaxed attitude, and I find that I enjoy it much more when the game forgives that.

Another thing I noticed. If you happen to capture an enemy city from a civ who has owned it for a long time, but has previously taken that city from another civ (ie. You capture Berlin from the French) if you raze it you take a -2 diplo hit with the Germans for razing it. The Germans don't ask for you to "liberate" it when you capture it, but are upset with you if you raze it. It doesn't make sense.

I guess you found a vanilla Civ 4 bug. I don't think it has anything to do with our mod, since we didn't really change any of that mechanics.

That screams some balance issues. Food crop plantations could be buffed a bit. Similarly pastures should be a bit better food wise than they are now. Maybe some tech could boost them in medieval era.

...aaaaaand buffed.

Making supporting units cost increased with numbers is a good idea, however it might be too punishing for unlucky civs who lack horses. My suggestion would be to apply the cost increase after 5-6 unit limit, so that you can't have too many skirmishers etc.

We can't really set it like that. The proper trick is to set the base price and increment amount just right to ensure the right amount of units. We will probably expand the use of increasing unit costs to many other unit classes, since it feel like a good mechanism to bring the composition of armies closer to balance.

Some wonders cost absurdly high to produce. Examples include Colosseum & that Theatre wonder. While happiness is great early on but a Classic wonder costing more than an average Medieval wonder is kind of crazy.

Many (most?) of wonders with higher costs have a resource that dramatically reduces these costs. Still, it might be a good idea to re-evaluate some of them. I also have a feeling not all of them are right.

Would it be possible to tweak the way AI evaluate the strength of tribal forts to be less suicidal?

No, unfortunately I don't see a way to do that.

I've noticed something odd recently. Many of the cavalry units don't require horses anymore (modern cav for example). Is this intended?

It has been like that for a long time. Late Renaissance - early Industrial cavalry units and beyond no longer require horses as a resource. By that time, lack of access to horses wasn't a factor in any significant country anymore. Since we can't model the spread of horses through breeding of new populations (by early XIX century, all continents and most countries already had local horse populations), we just have to remove the resource requirement from a certain point onward.

Do you guys think that Military drones (which play a pretty big part in today's world) will ever make it into the game?

Not really, since today's world is beyond the scope of RI. The mod's scope ends in 1989, 25 years into the past. First armed drones entered service past that date, and representing only unmanned scouting missions would make the unit kind of useless.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Oh one remark. I think UU should be all made resourceless. I was playing Egypt, and it felt weird not to be able to build WC because the closest horses were three empires far. I do not think it's really a big issue since those units are already limited in number.

 

[Babri]

Oh one remark. I think UU should be all made resourceless. I was playing Egypt, and it felt weird not to be able to build WC because the closest horses were three empires far. I do not think it's really a big issue since those units are already limited in number.

I disagree. The problem lies in distribution of strategic resources, not in UUs.

 

[keldath]

hey guys,

it seems 3.25 has a problem in direct ip multiplayer,

loading a game is a bit troublsome,

only one if us ( we play 2), can connect to the other, wjile the other loads a save game.
its like the load is one way.
secondly,
we started a game, and when i connected to him , it didnt find the game,
after that, he loaded up some auto save, and i did succeed in getting in the game, so , we tried right after again to load our game - and it worked - only by playing with the save load, we were able to connect (again, only one way).
third, when he tries to connect to my load, he gets a screen of the leader choise - but all he gets is a question mark with no leaders/civs to choose and the text says waiting for civ choise.
so,
im sure there some kind of a problem with this direct ip.

theres no fire wall or blocking stuff, also im an experienced civ player, so i know how to handle bugs like that, i played multi over the years with other mods, never had this error.

hope you guys fix this, its really uncomfortable.
other wise, superb mod.

 

[Babri]

Some suggestions :-

Quests should be such that they can also be fulfilled by smaller empires. It is annoying to have 12 city quests (build 12 castles/arenas etc).

Diplomacy modifiers should disappear with time (just like Rise of Mankind AND). This would allow more dynamic diplomacy.

Tech's cost should start increasing after you build/own 8-10 + cities (depending upon the map size) , so that runaways can be somewhat handled by rest of the world. Colonies won't be effected by this though.

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[aml666]

Id there a magic way to get around the 18 Civ limit for Islands maps?

 

[Slimak81]

Best all around mod for civ4!
One recommendation is to include X0.5 EXP check for units if possible. Sometimes upgraded Longbow in a city can kill assaulting modern marine =)) Lets get closer to reality.

Can u please write an instuction what line to add in GlobalDefinesAlt.xml to make exp rate twice slower.
Thanks.

ps Russian AI is acting poor , egyption AI is very very OP. I even forced all eaurope to fight with egypt to stop egypt consuming cities the can approach =)

 

[Slimak81]

Lost my first game to roman on monarch =) damn that never happened in civ series before =)

 

[civman110]

Then it probably means that you are somewhat past your comfort zone when it comes to difficulty levels. For each person this margin is somewhere else. After a certain point the amount of minmaxing and micromanagement you have to do becomes a chore - and that's when you know you probably should go for lower difficulty, even if you could have won on higher.

I personally never play past Monarch, even though my knowledge of how stuff works and experience would make it quite possible for me to compete on higher levels - but I don't really want to micromanage every decision, so I settled for a lower difficulty level that forgives a somewhat relaxed attitude, and I find that I enjoy it much more when the game forgives that.

That wasn't what I was saying. I have always played immortal and I personally don't mind the micromanagement. My experience was that even when I micromanaged and maxed all of my cities outputs and build wonders, settled several GP and build 4 academies there was no oppritunity for growth, or significant tech advancement. No matter what I did I couldn't pull myself out of the hole I was in.

I don't mind dropping down a difficulty level. The lower difficulty levels are most likely balanced. All I was trying to say is that balance wise there seems to be a tipping point and the immortal difficulty level is past that point and it doesn't appear to be viable, at least from my experiences.

Regardless, great mod and thank you for all the work you guys are doing! I'm looking forward to the new production system and the other changes you're planning.

 

[keldath]

hey guys,
i think early horse units, are kinda useless - theres too much anti horse units.

 

[civman110]

hey guys,
i think early horse units, are kinda useless - theres too much anti horse units.

I find them quite useful actually... Collateral damage, or increased withdrawal chance are perfect for weakening enemy stacks. Not to mention the aid bonuses. Horsemen are also great for crushing peasant/slave revolts and for barbarian control. You can cover a large area with few units.

 

[Drakarska]

^^ Agreed.

Kel, you need to rethink your strats and tacs in this mod, as there is actually quite a lot of pre-planning micro involved as opposed to other mods. I find it quite refreshing actually, as I've had to lower my difficulty setting a notch in order to NOT get my a$$ handed to me on a continuous basis.

@ Slimak81; is your issues that your having on the world map scenario?

Question for the PTB's lol; Is it intended that while playing on the world map scenario as the Inca, that the player is able to discover Africa in a early warship? I had one set to auto-explore and forgot about it. After quite a few turns later, up pop Shaka (much to my surprise) and wants to know if I want to trade maps. Kind of curious if this was a fluke or not.

 

[Babri]

hey guys,
i think early horse units, are kinda useless - theres too much anti horse units.

I don't get it. Cataphracts have literally no hard counter. They get a significant bonus against melee units so even spears can't beat them generally one on one, horse archers on the other hand are great for killing anything that is not an archer, perfect for destroying enemy stacks that are trying to attack your cities. Knights & light cavalry (replacement of horse archers) on the other hand can be countered quite easily though by many units.

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[keldath]

ok, guys, thank you all, perhaps i didnt use some early horses as i should have.

the mod is indeed refreshing, one of the best play styles i saw.

 

[burebeesta]

Hello, guys!

after a long break a tried a few games on immortal and manage to won one. the huge majority i lost, was because i was practically overrun by barbs! Raging barbs on immortal is almost impossible to to handle if you are somewhere in the middle of the map and have to defend from all 4 sides. You can get lucky if you are on an island...
Aside from that, i was thinking that you should be able to use a Great Prophet to spread your religion to another empire (which would be historically accurate) the same way you can use you Great Spy to conduct a mission.
Another thing I was thinking about is that the whole "Leaders" thing doesnt make much sense. Its really strange to meet Hitler of Germany, or Victoria of England in the prehistoric eras. its like these leaders are immortal. I doesnt make any sense at all. It would be much better instead if you would be able to chose only the civ. Leaders (with their specific traits) should appear at the specific time in the history they belong. I know its alot to change and might be hard to implement, but still. What if leaders would be some kind of GP? What if rulers with different traits would appear at different periods in the game? Its so boring and easy to just chose some traits from the very beginning. What if these traits would change over time?
Anyways, thanks for this mod, its really the best on the market!

 

[burebeesta]

Ah, just remembered another thing. I always play without tech transfer, because i find it unrealistic and a huge factor of unbalance in the game. All leaders who have the charismatic trait, not to speak of the politician trait, have a huge advantage, and by huge i mean game changing, over the others, especially on higher difficulty, where is so hard to build relations. The isolationist leaders are actually unplayable, at emperor or higher, with tech transfer. I will always lag behind real bad. So its a good thing you can uncheck tech transfer. In my opinion it should be replaced with something more realistic and more balanced.