SGOTM 22 - TTfkapr

[Gumbolt]

Well Rome will eventually suffer happiness. We have wine, Rep. We may well lose 2 happiness if Brennus declares. Later we could grab some Cal resources and adopt a religion.

I think a mix and match of war and teching is required here. It's difficult as on a usual SGOTM we would just spam units or cities and conquer the map. To get a decent stack ready we will need to chop and build units in most cities. Preserving Rome for science.

Then perhaps whilst stack is on move we can steal techs? Or set aside a city to build spies. if the spies succeed then we may only need 4-5 of them. I figure there could be 6-7+ techs worth stealing here. Be nice to see what Sal is teching soon.

If we truly want a GS we need to set up a pure GS farm.

 

[yyeah]

Allright so i made some more tests.

I think question is do we want to settle 5th ? We can settle it at 300AD.

Capitol
sw to aqueduct, when alpha 2 spies, worker after 2nd farm choop forest 1W from Rome then
1NW. ( i was working farm when ready and somewhere 1 trun 2f1c tile)
Horse
Barraks ( working 1f2c tile) at size 4 whip worker in to Pret
Fish
whip grenary in to galley( at size 5 1f2h tile) then settler

Iron
1 turn in to granary then 2 spies, woker improove Iron road choop forest 1E from deer

tech path currency 25AD, mistycyzm 75AD, Meditation 100AD,

 

[Gumbolt]

Been a bit distracted today. Let me toy with test game. It's quite hard testing when you don't know what the AI plan to do war wise. Guess we can just plan with hope the Ai do nothing silly.

Will look at your test game too Yyeah. Good to see some testing.

 

[shulec]

Let's run two Scientists starting now. Get Alpha in 2 turns. Play two turns and see what the tech situation is.

 

[Gumbolt]

Sorry fell asleep here. Bit of a fail to have a 6 hour afternoon nap. I won't be able to play the 2 turns till tomorrow.

Plan to whip fish at 175bc.
Rome Aqueduct. 2 scientists. Will lose 2 mines.
Horse worker at S3. Will switch to a wall for 1 turn.

Worker finish the farm.

Will play tomorrow morning. Ultimately most of the testing won't have much use till we have alphabet and can build praets.

 

[elitetroops]

Playing until Alpha sounds good.

I'm out until Wednesday. Won't have access to the game but can maybe comment something.

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay played until Alphabet. No big suprises. I think Sal has Feudalism. Look at the land the Persians have. I count 6 clams in that city. Wow!!

I guess we can play test more now we have alphabet.

Warrior near Celts should be able to locate stack soon. I think we can use the chariot too. I have moved an archer and warrior midway between Rome and Fish. Just in case another stack arrives. I also moved more units to horse city. We could spread 1-2 more archers around.

As it stands I would not build any more cities but capture the resource heavy Ai cities.

The Persian stack has parked itself on the hill. Pointless war so far. Expect additional units at some point. Right now not going war would be a big mistake as the Ai land is simply amazing.

Image doesn't actually prove we had 8 units in city but I moved 1 archer into city and moved spare warrior and archer towards horse. I thought the image would show the city. Rules were complied with. We also have 2 wonders, palace, granary and library.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 200 BC to 150 BC:

Turn 107, 200 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Rome!
Turn 107, 200 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Horse!
Turn 107, 200 BC: Zara Yaqob won't trade Dye
Turn 107, 200 BC: You are the worst enemy of Darius I.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Brennus is the worst enemy of Saladin.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Brennus.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Brennus will trade Cow, Deer, Sheep
Turn 107, 200 BC: Gilgamesh will trade Cow, Fish, Marble
Turn 107, 200 BC: Saladin will trade Fish
Turn 107, 200 BC: Zara Yaqob will trade Deer, Fish
Turn 107, 200 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Darius I
Turn 107, 200 BC: Rome will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Horse will grow to size 3 on the next turn.

Turn 108, 175 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Rome!
Turn 108, 175 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Rome!
Turn 108, 175 BC: Rome has grown to size 8.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Rome can hurry Aqueduct for 4⇴ with 29ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Horse has grown to size 3.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Brennus won't trade Sheep
Turn 108, 175 BC: Zara Yaqob will trade Horse
Turn 108, 175 BC: Iron city has been founded.
Turn 108, 175 BC: You have discovered Alphabet!
Turn 108, 175 BC: You have constructed a Granary in Fish city. Work has now begun on a Galley.

Turn 109, 150 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Rome!
Turn 109, 150 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Rome!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Zara Yaqob will trade Cow

 

[Gumbolt]

Now might be a good time for someone to take over. JJ or Packers should be up next. Both have gone AWOL. So maybe Yyeah might be good to go next.

Otherwise I can play more turns. I have already done 12 turns here.

I think 10-12 turns now per player makes sense. That or a maximum of week with save. We still have a good 100 turns left here.

Updated test game.

 

[yyeah]

I can take it.
Takeing out Persians is a good idea i think. Allso i would like to keep hes cities. In this way we can cut this continent and later raze everything in north and south with no worries that some1 can settle again this spots.

Edit:
Question do we want to settle 5th becosue fish can grow up to 5 and whip settler or we can whip worker at size 4 in to galley.
i would like to settle it reasons we can cut off this desert area too. i meen you know overall beetween seas and Hannibal shouldnt settle behind us.
Allso this city gives us + 2 sugar and elephants.

 

[Gumbolt]

The question I would ask is how quickly we can grow Rome? We need size 12-14 to seriously grow our empire. We need to steal Monarchy too. We will want construction too for his cities. It's likely we may face LB. Persian science should be slower while he is in war mode.

At present being at war with Persians gets us no diplo hits. The question is will Zara and Brennus declare on and if so how soon? Brennus we have a warrior to scout out stacks. Zara is much further away but building pults. Not sure who he will attack. So far the Gspy has spotted no stack.

I kept the barrack build in horse. We will want CR praet. We can still switch if need be to worker.

 

[yyeah]

In time when we can take out Perisans cities our capitol should be at pop 12 - 14 -16 its no problem.
We should defend against Brennus if whe attack, i dont think that Zara's comming for us.
I more like to bulid barracks in Horse, if we will work there af2c tile we can finish baracks at same time when we are growing to 4 and then whip worker put overflow in to Pret.
We can have Currancy 1 turn faster that way, i think, but its not 100% sure things can change in real game.

Edit.
In test we are missing 2c to get currancy at 25AD if we will make worker now at horse, so maybe we can get curancy at 25ad in real game and bulid worker at size 3.
Another option is to bulid worker at size 3 but for 1 turn work 1f2c tile this way we still get curancy at 25ad but worker will be 1 turn later.
But yea this worker can choop barracks then pret and at size 4 we can whip another worker.

 

[elitetroops]

Could someone post screenshot of techscreen?

To test currency timing, you should make sure exactly as many AI have currency in test game as in real game, to get correct research bonus.

 

[Gumbolt]

Tech screen.

None of the Ai have currency or alphabet. Or MC either. They really do go for the same techs. Mostly religious rubbish.

Spoiler :

 

[shulec]

This is depressing. (The situation due to the AI and our limitations from SGOTM)

We need workers chopping. I like a worker from Rome not the aqueduct. We need to be chopping Fish and improving/chopping Horse.

Saladin can bulb philosophy. We need to steal CoL. We need to research Mysticism, Buddhism, and Preisthood before we can bulb philosophy. We have a 35% chance of getting a great scientist. Ugh.

With the above tech needs, Currency is not a priority. We have no resources to trade for gold. We get 4 additional trade routes and can build wealth. Not spectacular.

MoM is out of our reach with three AI having Calendar.

City 5 must be captured, not settled.

Iron needs to build a spy, not a granary. Alternatively, in Fish, we need to put the overflow into a spy, then switch build to a Galley and whip at pop4 with overflow to finish the spy the next turn.

 

[elitetroops]

This is depressing. We need workers chopping. I like a worker from Rome not the aqueduct. We need to be chopping Fish and improving/chopping Horse.
...
Iron needs to build a spy, not a granary. Alternatively, in Fish, we need to put the overflow into a spy, then switch build to a Galley and whip at pop4 with overflow to finish the spy the next turn.

Eh? Rome was dumping hammers into aqueduct until alpha, now supposed to build spies. Iron also was supposed to put hammers into granary until alpha, then spies. Worker will be built in Horse. You posted a green go ahead and play yourself right after yyeah laid out this plan. If you have reasons to think worker is better built in capital, then you should have said so back then, when Rome was choosing a new build. Switching to worker now would only have delayed the worker a few turns for nothing.

 

[shulec]

Eh? Rome was dumping hammers into aqueduct until alpha, now supposed to build spies. Iron also was supposed to put hammers into granary until alpha, then spies. Worker will be built in Horse. You posted a green go ahead and play yourself right after yyeah laid out this plan. If you have reasons to think worker is better built in capital, then you should have said so back then, when Rome was choosing a new build. Switching to worker now would only have delayed the worker a few turns for nothing.

Sorry!!! I was very unclear. I was depressed by the game scenario - AI achievements coupled with our SGOTM limitations. I was not trying to be critical.
I am happy with what we have done so far. I was just suggesting alternate options for playing going forward!

 

[Gumbolt]

Yep this is the importance of stating your views on plans. If you don't shout loud enough you don't get heard. We could do with an extra worker here. Yyeah suggest horse to S4 and whip. We could also build one in Rome. Would be much quicker with the 2 mines.

As for bulbing philosophy not sure how much that will really get us. We need war efforts here. At least the 2 scientists speed up the next GP.

Overall my view here is we need to capture cities. The AI land is so juicy here.

More importantly we could use some more testing and comments from Yyeah. I wonder if he is waiting for Elite to return. I hope not. If you are in charge of the save you should be leading all debates.

I agree somewhat with Shulec. The way this game is designed if things go badly with limited cities you are left fighting endless wars. For instance at present Persians are unlikely ever to make peace with us. If Brennus attacks too then you have 2 wars that without some big wins could last for rest of game. Not also helped by fact we really only had archer/warriors till 150ad.

I think we have played a good game. Took some risks for GW, mids and the gifting away of stone. Just impossible for us to stop the Persian DOW with limited resources here.

The game should be very winnable once we start pumping out Praets and grab the juicy land from the AI.

 

[elitetroops]

Yeah, I'm quite depressed by the scenario and our current situation compared to AI as well... Sorry if it came out a bit harsh, it's just that we already lost quite a bit due to indecisiveness with builds. For example during my turnset Fish put hammers into worker at pop 2 with the intention to get it out asap, then it was suggested and decided to grow to pop 3 again before finishing worker. We lost one or two turns of working hamlet there for nothing. I'm hoping we could avoid such meaningless waste in the future by making the decisions at the time they are supposed to be made, not a couple of turns later.

Of course we should still allow for reevaluation of earlier decisions, but in this case I think yyeah already tested quite extensively and found worker in horse to be the best option. To switch now to worker in cap instead would require tests that prove otherwise.

I'm still out of town, cannot test now. Looks like I won't make it home until the weekend.

 

[Gumbolt]

I think a mix of trying to keep the game moving and the scenario have not helped us but we should still push on. It's difficult with a core of 4 players to always to be able to comment on games. Especially for Shulec who is in a different time zone. Or when me or Elite dissapear for a week.

One option is to build 2 workers now. Or try to steal some workers?? We will need to chop heavilly to quickly build an army here. We have limited whipping power really as we need Rome to grow. I suspect the spies will be needed more than 2 workers now. Perhaps a mix of both.

 

[yyeah]

Sry was off, i play some turns in evening.


Did you played some tests Shulec ?