Female rulers

[m15a]

It's a problem to try and make a game not sexist when it's based on history, which has been sexist

I think I see what you're saying, but I think the key is to not be committed to the criteria that the best leaders for the game are the ones that were the most powerful or most effective or even most famous. I don't think any of those factors were ever strictly adhered to in a Civilization game anyway. I like the approach that was used in the Civ V expansions - leaders that had an interesting story that fit with an interesting bonus. A lot of the suggestions in this thread fit those criteria pretty well, often because they don't fit the mold of a typical leader.

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

Every Civ should have at least two leader choices (well, of course unless you're The Huns ). This was to me the major flaw of Civ 5. There was the capacity to have more than one leader (remember, every civ had a trait and every leader a separate trait) but they never used it.

 

[Westwall]

I think I see what you're saying, but I think the key is to not be committed to the criteria that the best leaders for the game are the ones that were the most powerful or most effective or even most famous.

Agreed. If we're sticking to "realism," no Civ has ever had an immortal leader that ruled for millennia either.

At the end of the day, these "leaders" are more like the spiritual avatars or the embodiment of their nations for the player to interact with.

 

[Cerilis]

Another post I made got me thinking - who would be some good choices for female civ rulers? We only had three in vanilla last time, which they seemed to go out of their way to rectify with G&K and BNW. Who could they include in vanilla this time so they don't have to play catch-up later?

Some obvious suggestions:
Cleopatra or Hatshepsut
Elizabeth for Victoria (preferably the latter)
Isabella
Boudicca (if they throw us a curve ball and give us the Celts early)
Catherine the Great
Angela Merkel ( )

Please no, I'd rather have a certain Austrian. Elisabeth "Sissi"

 

[Brackenspore]

Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, Argentina

 

[Westwall]

Please no, I'd rather have a certain Austrian. Elisabeth "Sissi"

You mean the kind of Austrian who would cause the game to be banned in Germany?

 

[Cerilis]

You mean the kind of Austrian who would cause the game to be banned in Germany?

No, read harder. Besides, in that case they would certainly replace him in the German edition. ...like in the RTW-Mod for Civ4 (or whatever it was called).

 

[Hoop Thrower]

Obligatory mention of Amina from Zaria.

But truly, Africa has loads of good options. Ranavalona for Madagascar, Nzinga for Kongo, Yaa Asantewaa for Ashanti, Yodit for Ethiopia, I'm pretty sure I'm just touching the tip of the Iceberg here.

 

[Absolution]

Mine:

For the more obvious picks of civilizations:

• Theodora, an easy one.
• Hatshepsut, same.
• Elizabeth I of England, but Victoria or Thatcher may be the more interesting choices.
• Maria I of Portugal.
• Of the Russian Empire - Catherine II, but they can surprise with Elizabeth.
• Isabella I of Castile.

For the more surprising civilizations:

• Zenobia as a leader of Aramaea (or Palmyra, however they'll name the civ).
• Maria Theresa would be fine for Austira, but I'm really dying to see Franz Joseph or Metternich so I'd give up on her easily.
• Brunhilda, if they finally make Franks. God I hope they do so
• Tamar of the Kingdom of Georgia. No chance they include them, though
• Cleopatra as leader of the first time appearing Hellenist civilization, not the Egyptian! But again, I'm sailing in my dreams...
• If they split India - Rudrama Devi of the Kannada civilization and Mangamal of the Tamil civilization.
• The Korean crazy ruler Queen Myeongseong of Joseon.
• An African lady - the Malagasy queen Ranavalon I of Merina Kingdom.
• Christina of Sweden - a quite complex leader.

If a second leader is available:

• Arwa al-Sulayhi if they want to finally add a Shi'ite representation to the Arab civilization.
• Two Chinese candidates:
  1. Empress Dou of Western Han
  2. We Zetian
• Catherine de Medici for France, or Eleanor of Aquitaine.
• If an Italian civilization (= post Roman) is included, maybe in some of the DLCs, Eleanor of Arborea can be a unique leader to add and a good representation of insular Italy

I think I see what you're saying, but I think the key is to not be committed to the criteria that the best leaders for the game are the ones that were the most powerful or most effective or even most famous.

All of which I mentioned were indeed very successful, powerful or celebrated leaders. At least more than the ridiculous pick of Enrico Dandolo for civ 5....

 

[GenjiKhan]

Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, Argentina

She is the equivalent of Hilary Clinton in Argentina . Maybe even worse

 

[EulerMcE]

Every Civ should have at least two leader choices (well, of course unless you're The Huns ). This was to me the major flaw of Civ 5. There was the capacity to have more than one leader (remember, every civ had a trait and every leader a separate trait) but they never used it.

Seems like most of the work in adding a new civ was creating a new leader, it was only a matter of adding two uniques on top of it to create a civ. Personally I agree with their decision to create civs rather than doing the brunt of the work only to create a new leader for an old civilization.

Not that I don't think it's without problems, continuing to use one leader per civ means India will probably never get anybody but Gandhi for example. At the same time I'll be a bit disappointed if they downgrade the leaderheads in this game, I really liked how they were done in V. In particular I hope they keep them speaking their native language rather than muting them (or worse, making them speak gibberish like Rev).

 

[Scorched Earth]

The choices for a lot of the female leaders in V felt forced and out of place. I hope they won't continue adding female leaders just for the sake of meeting some gender quota.

 

[Westwall]

They might as well. Sausagefests are boring.

 

[cooldude1128]

I'll be blunt; I find it stupid to hunt down specific rulers to represent a civilization simply because they're one gender or another. I'd prefer the best possible/most well-known/most successful ruler of any given nation to represent it, not some figurehead shoehorned in because somebody decided that the game needed more women.

 

[Scorched Earth]

They might as well. Sausagefests are boring.

Speak for yourself.

 

[sherbz]

One possibility for England is Margaret Thatcher. She fulfills the criteria of being a great leader and also dead.

I wouldn't be opposed to Angela Merkel making appearance at some point either. But she needs to snuff it first

 

[TPangolin]

Vietnam (if it is added): Obvious answer is one of the Trung sisters.

HERESY! You can't just include one!

In our mods, we've also include Thanadelthur. I also suggest Yaa Asantewaa for the Ashanti.

 

[m15a]

I'll be blunt; I find it stupid to hunt down specific rulers to represent a civilization simply because they're one gender or another. I'd prefer the best possible/most well-known/most successful ruler of any given nation to represent it, not some figurehead shoehorned in because somebody decided that the game needed more women.

And I'd prefer the game has more female leaders, not some figurehead shoehorned in because someone decided the game needed more "best possible/most well-known/most successful" rulers.

We cancel each other out.

 

[TranquilSilence]

One possibility for England is Margaret Thatcher. She fulfills the criteria of being a great leader and also dead.

I feel like having Thatcher as leader of England would like having Reagan be the leader of America, pretty recent and still very politically divisive. Sure she had a huge impact, but I'm pretty sure they'd take the middle road and just go for Victoria or Liz I.

Thatcher would best be served for a specific Cold War Britain mod - and even then I'd still prefer a Postwar Attlee mod

On the topic of Boudicca, I wouldn't mind seeing her again, but I'd really like the Celtic civ to be less of a blob this time around. That said, the Celts are the best chance for some form of Irish/Scottish representation soooo...

 

[RohirrimElf]

If Thatcher turns about to be the leader of England. I will auto declare war when i see her face pop up.