Barbie Movie Discussion (Spoilers)

[Gorbles]

I suspect it's because it's very different from the typical "woke" Hollywood film.

There is no typical "woke" Hollywood film. Your opinion on what constitutes such things is different from the next person.

Because, like you said, it's subjective.

Which means it doesn't mean anything. But we've been here before, lol. I just thought I'd suggest "tokenism" in case folks weren't aware of it. If you or anyone else wants to double down on using "woke" and only "woke", then don't complain when the baggage turns up on your carousel

 

[Zardnaar]

Okay, but the problem with this is that there's movies with "woke" tropes that don't flop, the ones that do flop often have other reasons for their poor performance (you yourself pointed out there were other, bigger problems with the Star Wars Sequels, which didn't even do that poorly at the box office), and plenty of clearly non-woke movies flop as well. It's not even just that "get woke go broke" isn't a hard rule, it's that I'm not convinced it's even a soft rule or a trend or anything of that sort, because I haven't yet seen a consistent, objective definition of what counts as "woke" for "get woke go broke" that doesn't include a movie like Barbie (which very much didn't go broke), and if the reason for that is because it can't actually be defined consistently or in a non-subjective matter, it's meaningless as a rule because then you can just subjectively decide that movies you like or that did well aren't woke.

For me it's mostly a gut feeling. Do you think Snow White is going to do very well?

Star Wars is popular whipping boy they're batting around 50/50. Solo flopped but i thought it was better than most of the other Disney ones. I hope they don't screw up Ahsoka.

 

[Zardnaar]

There is no typical "woke" Hollywood film. Your opinion on what constitutes such things is different from the next person.

Because, like you said, it's subjective.

Which means it doesn't mean anything. But we've been here before, lol. I just thought I'd suggest "tokenism" in case folks weren't aware of it. If you or anyone else wants to double down on using "woke" and only "woke", then don't complain when the baggage turns up on your carousel

Well you're basically nitpicking at this point.

Do you agree Barbie is a lot more clever than typical Hollywood bilge served up recently? Think the summer blockbusters eg FastX, Little Mermaid, Spiderman (that one did really well tbf and rave reviews), Transformers. Indiana Joned. Elemental etc.

Sneaky suspicion they start jamming gideo fame and toy movies down our throats now. Nice break from Spandex at least.

 

[Gorbles]

Well you're basically nitpicking at this point.

As usual, no I'm not.

Do you agree Barbie is a lot more clever than typical Hollywood bilge served up recently?

Sure. And?

What does this have to do with "woke" anything? It doesn't. It has nothing to do with it. "woke" is a loaded "culture war" boogeyman. Use it, don't use it, whatever. It's tiring to go around in the same circles and then see the same posters express victimisation for opinions they hold, when they're going around insisting that "woke" is a real thing that exists. Sure it does, if you're a right-wing culture warrior. For everyone else, we have regular words, that can be used without igniting the same circular nonsense that keeps on happening any time someone uses the word "woke" unironically.

Tokenism works fine. If you actually want discussion, instead of the same five opinions in a circular loop, going around time and time again, I'm sincerely suggesting "maybe use it so people know what you're talking about". I'd know what you mean by tokenism. Everyone would. The problem with "woke" is it has a thousand meanings, because, like you said, it's subjective. Which means it's impossible to argue about, because nobody is operating under the same meaning of the word. I'm trying to give you advice, man. I don't understand why it's so hard to see that.

 

[EvaDK]

There is clever and sly commentary in Barbie; it's my understanding that Gerwig endured a lot of arm wrestling with the Mattel corp, to get her vision up on the screen. As far as I'm concerned, she could have gone even further. I remember watching Indiana Jones and the trailers for Barbie and Gran Turismo played; I reckon every guy in the room would rather watch Barbie, because Gran Turismo looks so effing bland and completely devoid af satire; like a Walmart version of the Fast & Furious films.

 

[choxorn]

For me it's mostly a gut feeling. Do you think Snow White is going to do very well?

I don't know, I don't know much about it. In any case if you want to tell me it will "get woke go broke" then why do you think it will be woke, beyond just "a gut feeling?"

Do you agree Barbie is a lot more clever than typical Hollywood bilge served up recently? Think the summer blockbusters eg FastX, Little Mermaid, Spiderman (that one did really well tbf and rave reviews), Transformers. Indiana Joned. Elemental etc.

Yes, we agree, we're not disputing that part, we just don't understand why you don't think it's woke and also clever. Do you think being clever or well-written inherently makes it not woke even if it has the kind of tropes you associate with "woke?"

 

[Zardnaar]

There is clever and sly commentary in Barbie; it's my understanding that Gerwig endured a lot of arm wrestling with the Mattel corp, to get her vision up on the screen. As far as I'm concerned, she could have gone even further. I remember watching Indiana Jones and the trailers for Barbie and Gran Turismo played; I reckon every guy in the room would rather watch Barbie, because Gran Turismo looks so effing bland and completely devoid af satire; like a Walmart version of the Fast & Furious films.

I liked the Gran Turismo game. 20+ years ago. Interest in movie 0% even on streaming.

 

[Zardnaar]

I don't know, I don't know much about it. In any case if you want to tell me it will "get woke go broke" then why do you think it will be woke, beyond just "a gut feeling?"




Yes, we agree, we're not disputing that part, we just don't understand why you don't think it's woke and also clever. Do you think being clever or well-written inherently makes it not woke even if it has the kind of tropes you associate with "woke?"

It's woke but it's not so woke it's alienating people it should appeal to.

Alot of it is target audience. Bros gay rom com reviewed well. Bombed hard. Who goes to see rom coms? Heterosexual

Snow White. Who cares about snow White? Fans of classical fairy tales. Reimagining it probably bomb. Coukd be wrong we'll see.

So it's not that woke movies bomb it depends if they're any good or not, target audience and genre.

Barbies also the exception not the rule. Look at the last few billion dollar movies.

Mario. Kids movie massive IP.

Top Gun Maverick. Great reviews, Tom Cruise did well with Gen X.

Avatar 2. James Cameron, sequel to one of the biggest movies ever (1st or 2nd not adjusted for inflation).

 

[Gorbles]

It's woke but it's not so woke it's alienating people it should appeal to.

So "woke" isn't inherently bad, but people use "woke" as literally nothing but a negative adjective . . . so?

 

[choxorn]

So it's not that woke movies bomb it depends if they're any good or not, target audience and genre.

That just sounds like "movies bomb when they're bad" and I don't see what that has to do with "wokeness"

Avatar 2. James Cameron, sequel to one of the biggest movies ever (1st or 2nd not adjusted for inflation).

Why isn't a movie series about an indigenous population resisting a colonial invasion woke?

 

[EvaDK]

People usually respond negatively when they expect to enjoy a couple of hours with well written characters and perhaps a childhood crush on a game, superhero or toy IP or whatever - and instead are subjected to Hollywoods version of a Chinese re-education camp.

 

[Zardnaar]

People usually respond negatively when they expect to enjoy a couple of hours with well written characters and perhaps a childhood crush on a game, superhero or toy IP or whatever - and instead are subjected to Hollywoods version of a Chinese re-education camp.

Pretty much. Want a lecture go to university.

 

[Zardnaar]

That just sounds like "movies bomb when they're bad" and I don't see what that has to do with "wokeness"



Why isn't a movie series about an indigenous population resisting a colonial invasion woke?

It's a sci fi movie with blue aliens. First ones basically dances with wolves.

Neither movies very good but they're both visual spectacles I suppose.

The movies also not to preachy about it leaves you to draw your own conclusions much like Dances With Wolves.

 

[Gorbles]

and instead are subjected to Hollywoods version of a Chinese re-education camp.

This definitely seems like a real thing that happens that is in no way an exaggeration in the slightest.

 

[Zardnaar]

This definitely seems like a real thing that happens that is in no way an exaggeration in the slightest.

It's a joke. Also see Mulan movie

 

[Gorbles]

It's a joke.

That's why I treated it as one, instead of assuming Eva was reading the video description of Ben Shapiro's latest "anti-woke" rant about Barbie

But if it's a joke, then where's the problem? Or is the joke real? Like this is non-stop confusing here man. It's a problem, but it's not a problem, it's real, but it's a joke.

 

[Zardnaar]

That's why I treated it as one, instead of assuming Eva was reading the video description of Ben Shapiro's latest "anti-woke" rant about Barbie

But if it's a joke, then where's the problem? Or is the joke real? Like this is non-stop confusing here man. It's a problem, but it's not a problem, it's real, but it's a joke.

Main point of the joke is essentially how preachy the movie is.

It's not so much what's in the movie but how it's presented and marketed.

 

[Narz]

@RobAnybody @Narz @GenMarshall you know how Gorbles and Sophie and I keep saying we think the definition of woke is unclear because Zard (and others) keep defining it in ways that make it seem pretty subjective and self-contradictory to us? This. Right here. From Zard's mouth himself, directly saying that the definition is subjective.

Is there an opinion on a movie and what it means that isn't subjective?

 

[Narz]

Main point of the joke is essentially how preachy the movie is.

I haven't seen it yet but that seems deliberately to get everyone on the internet's panties in a bunch and get them questioning is it really preachy, is it tounge in cheek, what does it all means man?!?

Gone are the days when a movie is just a movie, now everything's gotta be all meta and open to 8000 different interpretations.

 

[Gorbles]

Main point of the joke is essentially how preachy the movie is.

It's not so much what's in the movie but how it's presented and marketed.

Which again, means "woke" has nothing to do with it. Right-wing stuff can be preachy. Centrist stuff can be (oh so incredibly) preachy. If you want to go off about movies being preachy, go off about them being preachy! Use those words!