General Politics Three: But what is left/right?

[Comrade Ceasefire]

No, hence I support the GDPR and think it should go further. Also if you are going to shut down anyone's speech then better the CCP than protesters and others who disagree with you.

The point remains that they are not doing anything that people like fecebook and amazon aren't so it really looks like the thing that is specific is not the behaviour but who is doing it.

Be careful of applying Western democratic standards to non-Westerners. You and I might find the suppression of alternative political views abhorrent in the countries we live in, but in other cultures and political systems it is not.

The CPC has huge support in China at the national level (where your notion of suppression applies). That's about 75-80% according to several Harvard research surveys there over the last decade or more.

OTOH, there is about 25% approval of local governments, where there is still endemic corruption and where the suppression of alternatives to and by the CPC are not relevant.

Not all countries want halfwits like Marjorie Taylor-Greene or Donald Trump to have a chance of election and a vote on issues of national concern.

Maybe after poverty is reduced and food security established in China they will allow idiots to have that "right".
Until then, Rule 101 of politics applies - have the numbers, overwhelming numbers, and you can take power and do what you like with it.
Until the other side gets overwhelming numbers.
The political task you are facing in changing China to Western ways of governance is not too far from the difficulty you would have in convincing Hindus in India that Christianity should be the way, the light and the truth.

 

[Farm Boy]

but who is doing it.

This is said like an unfortunate afterthought, but it's absolutely crucial, isn't it?

Is it wrong? Have you actually been a New Deal liberal all along?

Well, you're talking to me, not those other people, and have been for the better part of a decade.

The New Deal built stuff I still use. The Square Deal was needed for it's time. Political machines rolled along just fine during both periods, corruption rolled along just fine during both periods. The government is still necessary to build things I need. Like a Farm Bill from the current decade would be nice. There is also still aldermanic privilege in the City of Chicago, corruption still prey on people, on purpose, and the government humors cakebaker-chasers and the klan alike. Do we really need all this reduced to prima facie simplicity? Because that won't work. Survivor bias might make it work... but only for a while and probably not at all.

 

[Samson]

Be careful of applying Western democratic standards to non-Westerners. You and I might find the suppression of alternative political views abhorrent in the countries we live in, but in other cultures and political systems it is not.

The CPC has huge support in China at the national level (where your notion of suppression applies). That's about 75-80% according to several Harvard research surveys there over the last decade or more.

OTOH, there is about 25% approval of local governments, where there is still endemic corruption and where the suppression of alternatives to and by the CPC are not relevant.

Not all countries want halfwits like Marjorie Taylor-Greene or Donald Trump to have a chance of election and a vote on issues of national concern.

Maybe after poverty is reduced and food security established in China they will allow idiots to have that "right".
Until then, Rule 101 of politics applies - have the numbers, overwhelming numbers, and you can take power and do what you like with it.
Until the other side gets overwhelming numbers.
The political task you are facing in changing China to Western ways of governance is not too far from the difficulty you would have in convincing Hindus in India that Christianity should be the way, the light and the truth.

I am not sure what this is apropos of. The US banning TikTok is very much what the CCP would do. right? This place is banned in China AIUI, and I do not think we are even that close to the line. Whether the US criminalised running this software or making / receiving HTTP packets a crime is very different from if the Chinese population want it to be in China.

If the government wanted to really help the people they would support some distributed OS ActivityPub solution, but that would reduce their control.

[EDIT]This is the news now. Do you really feel safer with Steve Mnuchin with his hands on your data than the CCP?

Spoiler Former Trump official Steve Mnuchin puts forward plan to buy TikTok app :

Former United States Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin has announced plans to rally investors in the hopes of buying the popular video-sharing app TikTok.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I am not sure what this is apropos of. The US banning TikTok is very much what the CCP would do. right?

I'm not big into Tik Tok, so I don't feel as passionate about this issue since it isn't going to affect me directly much, or at all, really. The main fear/concern/worry I've heard is that "China" is using Tik Tok to spy on us (Muricans) and/or "steal our data". Is that pretty much it?

Do you really feel safer with Steve Mnuchin with his hands on your data than the CCP?

That has been part of my impression about this controversy... Don't Alexa/AMAZON, Facebook, Twitter, Google, Yahoo and Target/WalMart/Home Depot.com and everyone else do exactly the same thing that Tik Tok is accused of doing? Collecting our data and spying on us?

Its always been a little surreal to me to hear people complain about being "spied on" willingly carry around/keep at hand, a listening/recording device, with a GPS tracker installed, 24 hours a day.

It reminds me of when people were coming up with all the conspiracy theories about the COVID vaccine supposedly containing some kind of "Bill Gates chip". When I would ask people why they were worried about such a thing, they would unironically complain that the chip was to "track my movements" or "monitor my purchases" or "to make me buy stuff"... When I would ask them "Doesn't your phone already do all that? Including show you ads to convince you to buy stuff?" they would get a confused look on their face like they never thought of that... it was kind of crazy to watch.

Then those same people would claim, again, without a hint of recognition of any irony, that the chip would be used to "kill them". When I would ask them why Bill Gates would spend all that money to create a chip and vaccine to inject it into them, to get them to "buy stuff" only to then kill them, thus preventing them from buying anything... again, they would get this look on their face like that had literally never occurred to them.

Anyway... I digress... Is the issue/problem here mainly that Tik Tok is a Chinese company rather than an American company? Is the thinking that American companies will be less nefarious/manipulative/exploitative in their use of our information than Chinese ones would? Why?

 

[amadeus]

The US banning TikTok is very much what the CCP would do. right?

TikTok is already banned in mainland China. If you go there, you have to use their locally-censored version Douyin.

 

[Farm Boy]

Why?

Those entities are not owned by an organization that points nuclear warhead tipped missiles at me. And you. While engaging in much more rigorous behavior exactly like we're quibbling about when the shoe is on the other foot. That the FBI shouldn't have some info is not a good argument for, "Why not Poobear, too?"

 

[Lexicus]

Those entities are not owned by an organization that points nuclear warhead tipped missiles at me. And you. While engaging in much more rigorous behavior exactly like we're quibbling about when the shoe is on the other foot. That the FBI shouldn't have some info is not a good argument for, "Why not Poobear, too?"

You see, the nuclear-tipped missiles they point at us are EvUL while the nuclear-tipped missiles we point at them are GewD

 

[Farm Boy]

That's not a great take. But I suppose you're mocking me with the strawman?

 

[Lexicus]

That's not a great take. But I suppose you're mocking me with the strawman?

Is it really a strawman though? Their stockpile of warheads is significantly smaller than ours

 

[Farm Boy]

True, but we have an umbrella and had been decommissioning. Not building new ones at a ferocious rate.

They're all weapons of the worst sort. I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make if it isn't actually an attempt to hit my statement over the head with a brick until it qualifies for public school in Texas.

 

[Samson]

True, but we have an umbrella and had been decommissioning. Not building new ones at a ferocious rate.

Why the Biden administration’s new nuclear gravity bomb is tragic

In late October 2023, the Pentagon announced—to the surprise of many, including congressional staffers who work on these issues—that it was pursuing a new nuclear weapon to be known as the B61-13, a gravity bomb.

This is a troubling development for many reasons. First, it is merely the latest in a long line of new nuclear weapons that the United States is building or proposing, in yet another sign that a new nuclear arms race is expanding. In addition, it breaks a promise the Obama administration made to eliminate almost all types of US nuclear gravity bombs, while further undermining President Biden’s pledge to reduce the role of nuclear weapons in US security. Most tragically, it further cements an absolute commitment on the part of the United States to retain nuclear deterrence as the centerpiece of its security policy for decades to come. While most of us hope the world can eventually stop relying on the threat of mass murder at a global scale as the basis for international security, the B61-13 moves everyone further away from that day.

Starting from the top, here is the entire, vast set of new nuclear bombs and warheads the United States recently developed or is pursuing:

• The Trump administration’s new “low-yield” warhead, deployed on sea-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs) carried by US submarines, with an estimated explosive yield roughly one-third the size of the gravity bomb dropped on Hiroshima. “Low-yield” is a relative term; this warhead could still kill tens of thousands in an instant.
• The new, more lethal B61-12 gravity bomb that the National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) recently started producing, after many years of delay (and with each bomb costing more than its weight in gold).
• The updated warhead for the stealthy air-launched cruise missile first proposed by the Obama administration, ideally suited to start a nuclear war.
• A variant of that cruise missile warhead for a sea-launched cruise missile that a) the Trump administration proposed, b) the Biden administration is trying to cancel, but c) Congress recently required the administration to pursue.
• The precedent-setting warhead for land-based missiles that, for the first time since the end of the Cold War, will be made entirely from new components, with nothing being reused except the basic design of the warhead.
• The momentous new warhead for submarine-launched ballistic missiles, the first entirely new bomb since the end of the Cold War, with both the components and the design of the weapon made anew.
• The B61-13.

All these new bombs and warheads are just part of a massive rebuilding of the entire US nuclear arsenal, which also includes new long-range, land-based missiles, new submarines, new stealthy, long-range bombers that will carry the new stealthy cruise missiles mentioned above, and major upgrades to the missiles carried by the submarines. The total cost to do all that while maintaining the existing weapons will be well over $1.2 trillion during the next 25 years.

 

[Farm Boy]

Sucks, doesn't it. It's not just those who live by the sword that die by it. Prosperity, happiness, and/or beauty without security are all about as far from blessings as one can get.

Obama's pledge was met with massive nuclear arsenal expansion. That he made that pledge while murdering Gaddafi, given the stakes at play, probably earn him about the lowest performance slot of any president we've had in the last 75 years. But hey, nukes = bad. And they do.

 

[amadeus]

murdering Gaddafi

That is rather loaded language. I would prefer “accelerated his shift to beyond the realm of the temporal.”

 

[Lexicus]

True, but we have an umbrella and had been decommissioning. Not building new ones at a ferocious rate.

They're all weapons of the worst sort. I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make if it isn't actually an attempt to hit my statement over the head with a brick until it qualifies for public school in Texas.

The point I'm trying to make is that "China has nukes pointed at us" isn't a very convincing argument to consider China some kind of unique threat when we almost definitely have more nukes pointed at China than they have pointed at us.

 

[Farm Boy]

Maybe I need something to "cry about" and you need what you need?

 

[Lexicus]

 

[Farm Boy]

 

[Arakhor]

But China! *shakes fist dramatically*

 

[Farm Boy]

Whoa whoa whoa. One thing at a time. Mustn't confuse the people. They have shorts to watch with thier epic attention spans.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Not to boast, but . . . I've actually banned Tiktok all by myself.

Click here for one simple trick by which you too can evade all of the dangers posed by Tiktok

Don't go on Tiktok