Vox Populi Congress Proposal Workshop

[N.Core]

PROPOSITION: Carriers gor 1xp per action of carried Air Unit
RATIONNELLE: There is a problem to get XP on carriers since, you kinda want them to do anything "but" directly engaging the enemy, as their main role is to carry air units, they shoutd get xp, just by doing that.
5 air units, each with 1 attack would be 5xp per turn, and 10xp max if you have logistics bombers, which should be acceptable, since other units had to swipe the area, so it shouldnt be OP in any way.

This is a great idea. I never know why no one thought of this to make Carrier units better.

 

[Bryan317]

The only thing I'll mention about the inability to upgrade carriers is, doesn't this open the flood gates to consider ANY unit for this? However yes, by the information age you could be generating thousands of gold per turn. Money simply isn't an issue anymore. But where do we draw the line? You can be overwhelmingly Rich even earlier than this.

 

[CppMaster]

doesn't this open the flood gates to consider ANY unit for this?

Sure, why not?

 

[myclan]

But we need the upgrade system to keep the elite units with lots of promotion advanced, especially for UU.

 

[Anarcomu]

There have been discussions about unique units balance, I come with a drastic first draw proposal which will probably be very unpopular (but still proposing just in case) :

• All UU's basic free promotion (shock I or supply etc.) are replaced with promotions which do not exist in the promotion tree.
• All UU's promotions are lost on upgrade.

This makes UU's only good for their era, and remove the stacking of promotions from early UU's. I have no idea if this would be a good thing or not. Thoughts ?

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

There have been discussions about unique units balance, I come with a drastic first draw proposal which will probably be very unpopular (but still proposing just in case) :

• All UU's basic free promotion (shock I or supply etc.) are replaced with promotions which do not exist in the promotion tree.
• All UU's promotions are lost on upgrade.

This makes UU's only good for their era, and remove the stacking of promotions from early UU's. I have no idea if this would be a good thing or not. Thoughts ?

I dont like that. I love "stay on upgrade"

 

[Tekamthi]

All UU's promotions are lost on upgrade.

I usually favor these thematically aligned suggestions, but this is one of those "fun" features that I'd prefer to keep. On the quicker game speeds sometimes you barely have time to use a UU before it's time to upgrade

When you suggest to replace the bonus free promotions, would we just be creating a unique promotion with the same effects? Or are these intended to be entirely unique abilities? If the latter, there are only so many effects available in the game, and they're almost all deployed in some capacity already.

I'd suggest exploring the modmod route for a first draft of this concept, bring a working prototype to Congress.

 

[Bryan317]

There have been discussions about unique units balance, I come with a drastic first draw proposal which will probably be very unpopular (but still proposing just in case) :

• All UU's basic free promotion (shock I or supply etc.) are replaced with promotions which do not exist in the promotion tree.
• All UU's promotions are lost on upgrade.

This makes UU's only good for their era, and remove the stacking of promotions from early UU's. I have no idea if this would be a good thing or not. Thoughts ?

There could be something to this. The carried over promotions on UU is devastatingly unbalanced. Roman Legions come to mind. Free Cover 2? Good lord.

 

[Anarcomu]

When you suggest to replace the bonus free promotions, would we just be creating a unique promotion with the same effects? Or are these intended to be entirely unique abilities?

Looking at your whole argument, I'd say that you could replace those free promotion with a stronger version in most case : you keep the initial spirit with the same kind of bonus, make it more noticeable for its timeframe, to compensate for the loss of promotion once you upgrade.

 

[pineappledan]

Almost all unique units have something that makes them stronger in their era and something to carry forward. They always have a bit more CS, or a lost on upgrade and carried forward upgrade, and in some cases unique builds or actions that obsolete. I like having “legacy” UUs, and I think a lot of other people do too. I’ve seen it mentioned time and time again that removing unique abilities on upgrade was one of the worst things civ 6 did.

 

[KlHannibal2]

Rename Freedom's "Trade Organization" tenet to "Containment"

No balance changes, it's just a better name.​

Trade Organization seems like it's attempting to be a reference to the European Union, but it's a limp, amorphous term. Containment more closely matches the bonuses the tenet gives, and has a more overt reference to Cold War liberal politics.​

Change Autocracy's "Commerce Raiders" to a slightly altered tenet called "Mare Nostrum"

+10% to Seaports (removed)​

+1 Oil and Coal for each CS alliance (unchanged)​

+2 to Atolls, Fishing Boats, and Offshore Oil Platforms​

Naval Ranged units gain the Mare Nostrum Promotion:​

+25% vs cities. +5 healing in friendly territory​

​

We already have Imperialism giving a bonus to naval melee. We don't have policies that boost naval ranged. The yields on kill bonus from the current tenet is paltry. Pure flavour.​

Commerce raiding as a doctrine is not a strictly Fascist thing, and predates the 20th century ideological struggles by more than a century.​

This policy is meant to be a reference to the War in the Atlantic in WW2, but does a poor job of portraying that, and there were two other Axis powers who were both far more concentrated on naval strategy than the Germans.​

The current tenet gives a 10% modifier to 1 building in a mutually exclusive set, which seems a bit crappy. Industry's Division of Labour policy already gives % bonus to Seaports (AND Train Stations)​

Change Autocracy's "Tyranny" tenet to "Co-Prosperity Sphere"

No balance changes, it's just a better name.​

Tyranny isn't a bad name, but it's a very old concept and more of a synonym of Autocracy. It sounds more appropriate as an Authority policy name.​

Excellent naming proposals!

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

I’ve seen it mentioned time and time again that removing unique abilities on upgrade was one of the worst things civ 6 did.

Yes! I didnt even think of that, but it really really sucks that they did that. eww.

 

[Stalker0]

I've floated this idea a few times to make spears and pikes a bit more viable without just heaping more stats on them. So here is the idea.

Spears and Pikes gain Common Soldier promotion. This upgrade is LOST on promotion to Tercio (tercio are just fine and don't need any help).

Common Soldier: Heals 5 at the start of its turn, even if it takes an action (not effected by medic).


Mechanically this is a "mini-march", but most importantly does not stack with any medic promotions (which I need to check if that is mechanically feasible). The thematic is, because these are the common cannon fodder, you have tons of these people compared to your more specialized and well trained military units. Aka where 1 man falls, another takes their place. And so they recover a little bit of health on every turn if they aren't destroyed. This gives them more staying power on defense, and makes attacking with them a bit more viable (as long as they aren't just destroyed before they can heal).

 

[Bryan317]

I've floated this idea a few times to make spears and pikes a bit more viable without just heaping more stats on them. So here is the idea.

Spears and Pikes gain Common Soldier promotion. This upgrade is LOST on promotion to Tercio (tercio are just fine and don't need any help).

Common Soldier: Heals 5 at the start of its turn, even if it takes an action (not effected by medic).


Mechanically this is a "mini-march", but most importantly does not stack with any medic promotions (which I need to check if that is mechanically feasible). The thematic is, because these are the common cannon fodder, you have tons of these people compared to your more specialized and well trained military units. Aka where 1 man falls, another takes their place. And so they recover a little bit of health on every turn if they aren't destroyed. This gives them more staying power on defense, and makes attacking with them a bit more viable (as long as they aren't just destroyed before they can heal).

My only concern would be that I personally feel calvary need more help than Spearman. In fact Spearman devastate calvary. This would make them even more menacing.

 

[CppMaster]

They could also just be cheaper if right now they're too weak for it's cost.

 

[pineappledan]

My only concern would be that I personally feel calvary need more help than Spearman. In fact Spearman devastate calvary. This would make them even more menacing.

Cavalry is a military term for soldiers who fight on horseback. Calvary is the hill where Jesus was crucified.

 

[Stalker0]

My only concern would be that I personally feel calvary need more help than Spearman. In fact Spearman devastate calvary. This would make them even more menacing.

I hear completely opposite sides on this. Some say spears/pikes make calvary unusable. others say they are so weak they don't bother buildign them.

For me, I do think spears/pikes are a perfectly fine unit against horses, but they are terrible against any kind of ranged. So in practical terms they don't tend to last long....yes if I have a heavy horse army and you go mass pikes I will get tripped up, but even the inclusion of a reasonable amount of ranged will clear those units out without much issue

 

[Bryan317]

I hear completely opposite sides on this. Some say spears/pikes make calvary unusable. others say they are so weak they don't bother buildign them.

For me, I do think spears/pikes are a perfectly fine unit against horses, but they are terrible against any kind of ranged. So in practical terms they don't tend to last long....yes if I have a heavy horse army and you go mass pikes I will get tripped up, but even the inclusion of a reasonable amount of ranged will clear those units out without much issue

I made a topic several years ago about CaValry. And they haven't really changed so my opinion is the same. Yes, some people convinced me of their proper use, but they are still lacking compared to any other unit. Mainly because they can't get any promotions that can counter a certain unit, for instance Cover or Formation. In terms of gameplay, I understand their use but I don't feel they're properly portrayed in terms of realism. Typically only armies that had heavy Cavalry would take the field.

 

[azum4roll]

Mounted melee's only use is to take out lone units without protection of ZoC (the flanking role has been taken over by mounted ranged). They're best suited for the tech leader because of the raw CS advantage when they first unlock. If you're behind in tech, they'll be fighting against their counters and will die easily from counter attacks.

 

[Bryan317]

Actually I may have just been convinced that cavalry is accurately portrayed in the mod. My argument that "heavy cavalry always takes the field" was probably done by financially and technologically superior armies.