Multiple Win Conditions?

[boogaboo]

I voted "no", since it cannot be done.
If you win by 2050 domination and need to do conquest, it will require a change in the last turns.
If you also want a spaceship, you need to plan on science and building the parts.

You cannot just "convert" your goal for a different means while sticking to a "no loading" rule.
This is why I think it would be best without.
I don't think the HoF is filling up too slowly.
It is filling up in just the right pace.

 

[a space oddity]

Don't underestimate what Dianthus and 'slug are able to do with saves. No reloading on the player's part required!

It is very possible to set things up to be building the last SS part lacking 1 shield, lacking just 1 culture point for 20k and 100k culture and time a UN election on 2050. In most milkruns the AI have a token city surrounded with troops indicating a Conquest possibility (two AIs if Diplo is to be relevant too).

I for one am curious to see how crafty some of the 'Histo' games were constructed.

 

[superslug]

I voted "no", since it cannot be done.....You cannot just "convert" your goal for a different means while sticking to a "no loading" rule.

Reloading/replaying in these hypothetical games would be as unacceptable as it is now. In regards to your assertion that it can't be done, I refer you to this link, which was the basis of the idea:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/spotlight/gotm18_sirpleb.php

EDIT: Crossposted with Space.

 

[Dianthus]

It is very possible to set things up to be building the last SS part lacking 1 shield, lacking just 1 culture point for 20k and 100k culture and time a UN election on 2050. In most milkruns the AI have a token city surrounded with troops indicating a Conquest possibility (two AIs if Diplo is to be relevant too).

That's not quite what I was intending (not sure about the Chief). If you submitted a .sav in which there is a city with >= 20K culture and the overall culture is >= 100K and there are no surviving AI and all spaceship parts have been completed and the turn is 2050 then Civ will only give you one victory condition, but the HoF would give you 20K culture+100K culture+Conquest+Spaceship+Histographic.

 

[a space oddity]

@Diathus: That's actually easier to accomplish as a player, and probably easier to implement too.

BTW: Nice staff turnout again.

 

[superslug]

That's not quite what I was intending (not sure about the Chief). If you submitted a .sav in which there is a city with >= 20K culture and the overall culture is >= 100K and there are no surviving AI and all spaceship parts have been completed and the turn is 2050 then Civ will only give you one victory condition, but the HoF would give you 20K culture+100K culture+Conquest+Spaceship+Histographic.

Close!
The last AI city has to be wiped out in 2049.
The imperial culture has to cross 100k(/160kC3C) between 2049 and 2050.
The city culture has to cross 20k between 2049 and 2050.
The spaceship has to be launched in 2049.
Domination has to be crossed between 2049 and 2050 (probably easy though as a result of 100k).
A successful UN vote has to be held in 2050.

We're not proposing an easy challenge.

 

[Dianthus]

Close!
The last AI city has to be wiped out in 2049.
The imperial culture has to cross 100k(/160kC3C) between 2049 and 2050.
The city culture has to cross 20k between 2049 and 2050.
The spaceship has to be launched in 2049.
Domination has to be crossed between 2049 and 2050 (probably easy though as a result of 100k).
A successful UN vote has to be held in 2050.

We're not proposing an easy challenge.

And if you do all of those and submit the turn after you will have a .sav in the similar state to that I described .

 

[superslug]

And if you do all of those and submit the turn after you will have a .sav in the similar state to that I described .

True. I could have saved a bunch of typing and just said that if any victory condition is triggered by anyone before 2050, the deal's off. Hitting 100k in 2043 wouldn't cut it.

 

[EMan]

I can see from the above discussion by the HOF Staff that they Reeeeally want to FILL the HOF Tables, even if it's subconscious thought!

I think the Multiple Victory credits SHOULD be allowed for 3 reasons:

1. MORE entries in the HOF encourages MORE competition! (A score/date to "shoot" at.)

2. Fills up the HOF...it's "Embarassingly Empty" right now.....could give the "wrong" impression that only a handful of players participate! (And, we want the HOF to continue to operate, right?!)

3. The "Secondary" victories are only temporary entries in the HOF anyways! (Hopefully!!).........all this talk about secondary victories at 2050AD.......Good Lord!.....if a Fast Finish to get in the HOF is 2050AD......well, you get the idea!

 

[punkbass2000]

If anyone sets the record for all victory conditions in one game I quit...

 

[EMan]

@punkbass2000: I hope SirPleb isn't reading this thread!....'cos there are 3 ENTIRE TABLES with NO entries:

1. Sid Level, Small Map
2. Warlord Level, Large Map
3. C3C Deity Level, Large Map

So, ONE game at any of these 3 settings would get a #1 Position in ALL Victory conditions!

 

[Ronald]

2) The not so obvious one: It would create a new class of competition within the Hall of Fame. The staff and I and have discussed an award (working title: Machiavelli) that would go to huge map games that could achieve any of the six victory conditions in 2050. We're thinking it would give milkers a milk phase challenge other than just fighting off boredom.

If you start to think along these lines, why not create a table for the fastest date to achieve all 6 victories at the same turn? (5 mapsizes, 8 difficulties a lot more tables to fill )

 

[bed_head7]

Is it possible to get Conquest and Diplomatic in one game? I can't think of any way that could happen.

EMan, I will try to put up a Large Deity before next update.

 

[superslug]

I can see from the above discussion by the HOF Staff that they Reeeeally want to FILL the HOF Tables, even if it's subconscious thought!

We obviously like the idea, but that doesn't mean it's a done deal. The decision is mine and I haven't reached one yet.

I won't discuss them at this time, but have other ideas that wouldn't require rules changes. While I'd like to see more players and submissions, there's no point in doing things that might drive away established regulars.

Running the Hall with vision is one thing. Cramming an agenda down people's throats is quite another.

 

[superslug]

If anyone sets the record for all victory conditions in one game I quit...

I assume you mean record score? That wouldn't be possible in fastest finish.

 

[superslug]

If you start to think along these lines, why not create a table for the fastest date to achieve all 6 victories at the same turn? (5 mapsizes, 8 difficulties a lot more tables to fill )

We've already got several ideas for fastest finish awards based on the current HoF rules, which I don't care to discuss at this time. The idea behind Machiavelli was to make sure there was an award the milkers could also compete for.

To those who oppose enabling multiple-wins within the rules, let me ask you this: Would you mind a Machiavelli award if the rules went unchanged? Basically meaning that we'd create a Machiavelli award for milk games that could win any way in 2050, but would still only get one HoF slot? The single victory condition recognized would still be at the player's discretion as it is now.

 

[Bartleby]

I checked this out last night, the game seems to check for victory in the order:
Conquest>Space>Domination>Culture>Diplomatic>Histograph
The only way a vote is called in 2050 is if NO other victory condition is met (and the vote is due).

 

[superslug]

I checked this out last night, the game seems to check for victory in the order:
Conquest>Space>Domination>Culture>Diplomatic>Histograph
The only way a vote is called in 2050 is if NO other victory condition is met (and the vote is due).

Well, that sort of puts a bullet in the head of the original proposal. Guess I should have done my homework.

 

[superslug]

I've reached a decision.

Based on the overall circumstances, the best thing to do is abandon this idea and leave the rules as they currently are.

Thank you everyone who participated in this discussion.

 

[EMan]

To be consistent, does that mean a Spaceship Victory in 2050AD should NOT be in the Spaceship "Fast Finish" Table, because it is primarily a Histographic Victory....and Secondary victories are not credited?