Order the traits in your order of preference.

I play on Prince/Monarch

1. Philosophical
2. Financial
3. Spiritual
4. Industrious
5. Organized
6. Charismatic
7. Creative
8. Aggressive
9. Expansive
10. Protective
11. Imperialistic
 
Someone said it best, it's the combination that matters not the individual trait.

I hate imperialistic. I think it's the worst trait and could use a lot of help.

BUT Victoria is one of my favourite leaders because I think financial combines with it well and the UB and UU helps a lot.

But I guess if I had to give single traits probably philosophical and creative.
 
1. Financial
2. Philosphical
3. Spiritual
4. Creative
---
5. Industrious
6. Aggressive
7. Charismatic
---
8. Organized
9. Expansive
10. Protective
11. Imperialistic

I'm noble.
 
I play on Monarch/Emperor (moved up to Emperor in Warlords, didn't play Emperor yet in BtS, just trying to use all the cool new features :) ). With that in mind, here's my classification:

Top tier:
- Financial - what's not to like? especially with the AI getting fewer starting bonuses, meaning slower research; the extra :commerce: means you can out-research the AIs, get a military type superiority and kick behinds
- Philosophical - insane amounts of Great Persons, which with the now better golden ages become even cooler!
- Industrious - I won several Emperor games in Warlords while building lots of wonders, and connecting wonder resources makes it insanely good; there are even more wonders now... :drool:
- Spiritual - despite the spiritual side of golden ages it's still a great civic especially if you go to war a lot; being able to switch in and out of slavery now that it costs more and that it has the side-effects of slave revolts is quite a bonus
- Charismatic - the higher the level you play on the better it is; with Monuments now only obsoleting with Astronomy, on certain maps you can retain them to the end of the game (or near it anyway); +2 early :) is nothing short of divine on Emperor

Second tier:
- Creative - again, I think it's better on high levels; it lets you place your cities in better locations, and gives you three cheap buildings, two of which (theatre and colosseum) will help you raise your happiness cap, while the libraries with help with research
- Aggressive - let the others do the building and researching, then take over :trouble:
- Organized - cheap courthouses, allowing for bigger empires; also cheap civics, so if you're a Bureaucracy/Organized Religion fan it can do you tons of good

Third tier:
- Expansive - too bad about it getting only +2 :health: and +25% worker production; would have been in tier two with +3 and +50%; the latter would have meant +2 :hammers: while working the base tile and a 3 :hammers: tile for a worker
- Imperialistic - once they fix the Military Academy bug you won't have too many options left for the Great Generals until late in the game; too bad, they should have kept MAs at an earlier tech, maybe even Guilds for example, so that people would have even more of a choice between Guilds and Education/Liberalism
- Protective - despite it getting better in the Gunpowder era, and boosting the Gunpowder unique units (or Toku's Gunpowder units) it's still not such a great trait; maybe if they made walls more expensive and if you'd need something like three cities with walls to build the Great Wall...
 
It's so hard to decide now. I think creative/expansive are the best backup traits. Creative can give a better advantage, expansive is more consistent.

Main traits tie into your overall strategy, like philosophical (some gambits and lightbulb intensive strategies), spiritual (FE), aggressive, industrious (wonder reliant). They tend to be wasted if you don't use it. I guess charismatic is borderline here, being a little flexible. Financial doesn't quite fit here, but it's too strong of a backbone to be secondary.
 
Immortal/deity post BTS. My rankings have changed, reflecting the paradigm shift away from axe rushing and towards early peaceful expansion. Notably, Creative for land-grabbing and super fast libraries which give early research and cultural reinforcement joins the top tier, and Aggressive is demoted. Spiritual is also demoted due to golden age civic switches and the imbalanced Cristo Redentor. Organized went up to tier 2. Expansive got to keep its position in tier 2 because whipping granaries at city size 2 is still powerful, and it's guaranteed that the health bonus will remain useful into late game because cities get so unhealthy in BtS. Because I'd rather claim land than gamble on finishing multiple wonders before the AI does, Industrious remains firmly at the bottom of the heap.


Tier 1: Cha, Cre, Fin, Phi

Tier 2: Agg, Exp, Org, Spi

Tier 3: Ind, Imp, Pro
 
1. Financial
2. Imperialistic
3. Industrious
4. Spiritual
5. Charismatic
6. Expansive
7. Creative
8. Philosophical
9. Aggressive
10. Organised
11. Protective

I love Imperialistic. i see many people dont like it that much, but i love making some early west point style cities by joining my generals to my miltary city in the early game to get at least 3 promotions automatically, and if i run vassalage and theocracy its even more powerful. i spose i really should like aggressive more because of the free combat I promotion, but then thats a slot filled that could be financial, which is just awesome. Then with imperialistic when u get west point/pentagon, its just amazing. at the moment though im enjoying playing with augustus caeser. praetorians with CRIII are just insane. I used to love philosophical, but i got really bored playing with leaders with that trait, so its bumped down my list, probably unfairly.
 
Percy said:
"Early" West Point when it needs Military Tradition? o.O
Click to expand...

i am well aware of that, thanks. "west point style" i believe is how i said it. meaning that GG's gives promotions just like west point does.
 
Indeed. My apologies. I thought he meant that GGs allowed him to promote a unit to the level required fast enough to have "early" West Point.

Sorry again =)
 
Monkeyfinger said:
If you like, state your current difficulty.

I recently moved up to emperor, mine looks like this, best on top:

1) Charismatic
2) Financial
3) Philosophical
4) Creative
5) Industrious
6) Expansive
7) Spiritual
8) Organized
9) Protective
10) Imperialistic
11) Aggressive

4 and 5 are very close to one another and could reasonably be switched, same for 10 and 11. Other than that, it seems about right.

in before people kicking up a ruckus about how there are no bests in civ
Click to expand...

First I love all the traits and enjoy trying to leverage every leader to maximize their use. Here is how I rank them as far as being the msot useful

1) Industrial: Fast wonders (national and world) plus fast forge. Always go for the oracle slingshot to metal casting for the early forges for a massive production edge over AIs who usually take a much longer time to get metal casting let alone forges built.
2) Spiritual: The most flexible trait because of no anarchy, especially later in the game.
3) Organized; Great for late game economies and I think more overall beneficial than financial. Early courthouses are the best half price building next to forges and graneries. half price factories overpower the trait.
4) Charismatic. The best war-mongering trait. Combines very well with any other trait.
5) Financial: Gets you off to a great start, espcially if you can get coastal cities and the GL + colossus.
6) Expansive: Great half price on ganeries, harbors, and 25% on workers are awesome. Those +2 health are big late in a BTS game because of the added unhealthiness from factories, I view it as an unhealthy coal plant.
7) Phil: I do not rank it as high as others because it's benefits really pertain to 1 or 2 cities except for the half price university. It does allow beelining to education/liberalism, which allows you to get that half price building ALOT faster than an AI.
8) Agressive; Nothing wrong with this trait except if you want a peaceful game based on how things go it's completely useless.
9) Creative: +2 culture eliminates the need for an early religion, expands borders quickly, allows fast libraries (fast theaters are not that helpful since you get the +2 culture anyway). It's benefits really wane by the middle-end game.
10) Protective: Great for defensive games early on. The CGII and Drill I are nice for later gunpowder units but can easily be overcome by the usual AI large SODs. Needs a slight tweek in traits, maybe half price on bunkers and bomb shelters.
11) Imperialistic: The trait I struggle to use well. I play huge maps so I can always get settlers fast enough for the core cities. To maximize the GG production you have to also nail down the great wall, and go to war very often. I really think this trait needs a boost, say 1 extra EP percity, or maybe double EPs for the capital. Even double speed of some building like stables, airpoert, or custome houses. Or more fitting, perhaps half cost on that new colony upkeep cost; or maybe an additional happiness for each vassal.

Just my opinion
 
Playing on Immortal/Deity in BtS:

Tier 1

1)Financial - Frankly this trait should be in a tier of its own. Additional commerce can be turned equally well to favour a builder or warmonger style of gameplay, and provides a steady bonus throughout the entire game. This trait is particularly strong on archipelago maps, but even on Pangaea is a first tier trait.

2)Philosophical - While not up to the standards of financial, additional great people are similarly flexible, whether going for a fast tech pace, or warfare. The cheap universities are a nice touch as well.

3)Charismatic - Not quite as strong as it used to be now the happiness caps are higher, but two extra happiness in each city is immensely powerful in the early stages, whether going for warfare or builder. Faster promotions combine to make an excellent trait for an early rush strategy.

4)Industrious - OK, this trait is better at lower levels where more wonder construction is possible, but even at Immortal it can aid in grabbing a few wonders. The forge is an excellent building to get cheap, since getting it early will in turn speed the construction of other buildings (plus it's normally an expensive one).

Tier 2


5)Creative - I have to admit there's a whole bunch I'd rate much the same at this point, as we're down into the second tier traits. I'm fond of creative for the early culture expansion, which can certainly solve a lot of potential problems, and the cheap libraries in particular are also very valuable. This trait shines in the ancient and classical ages, but in the Industrial age and beyond it becomes worthles, hence a tier 2 trait.

6)Aggressive - For a warmonger this is obviously a strong trait, and is at least at good as charismatic for an early rush strategy. Doesn't offer much to the builder though.

7)Spiritual - I've never been that fond of this trait Yes it provides some flexibility in civics, and removes any need to postpone civics in a tight wonder race, but in raw terms it seems to give little benefit. Most of the tricks with Cristo Redentor don't work so well with spiritual, since they rely on an instantaneous flip. That wonder, late enough to be avaible at all difficulty levels, means the spiritual trait becomes useless around the end of the industrial age, and the free civic switches in golden ages have similarly weakened it. The cheap temples are handy in a religion heavy strategy though, which keeps this trait in tier 2.

8)Organized - Just about in tier 2 thanks to the importance of cheap courthouses, but this isn't a strong trait. Actually looking at the bottom line indicates the amount of gold saved by this trait is tiny compared to that contributed by financial. While it aids somewhat in early expansion (whether through war or settling) the amount is slight, and this trait becomes virtually worthless in the latter half of the game.

Tier 3

9)Protective - We're down into the junk traits now. Protective is ultimately the trait for someone who is not playing to win, hence it is actually some use to an AI which is merely trying to survive. Its purely defensive nature is practically useless to a human player which is trying to win. City garrison is not a useful promotion, since something has to go drastically wrong for the AI to be directly assaulting one of your cities. This trait is for someone who is only trying not to lose.

10)Expansive - OK, cheap granaries aren't bad, but they're fairly cheap to start with, and you won't save much time if you're using the whip. The health cap is however not as relevant as the happiness cap, and while +2 health can give a slight boost in the industrial age, it's nothing really game changing. How many games would you trade in a trait for a health resource? The faster worker construction is broken, since the bonus applies only to hammers, not food, which make up the bulk of the crucial early workers.

11)Imperialistic - Last and least, in many games the bonus from this trait is virtually nil. Similar to expansive workers the bonus to settler production is broken, and hence the actually benefit is tiny. Great generals really aren't that stunning, being weaker than the conventional great people, and they don't make up for the total lack of other benefits from this trait.
 
Immortal, mostly:
1) Financial
2) Philosophical
3) Charismatic
4) Creative
5) Spiritual
6) Aggressive
7) Organized
8) Industrious
9) Expansive
10) Imperialistic
11) Protective

Numbers 4 through 8 are fairly close. Industrious moves up on easier levels, and Charismatic moves down somewhat.

peace,
lilnev
 
I thought the thread was about what your preferences are, not what traits are best, but since everyone is posting these tiers, I guess I would post them also...

Top Traits:
Financial, Charismatic, Philosophical

Good Traits:
Creative, Spiritual, Organized

Decent Traits:
Expansive, Aggresive

Weak Traits:
Protective, Imperialistic

Industrious is very situational, and is much less useful on immortal or deity than it is at say Monarch.
 
In general I'd say something like this:

Financial
Philosophical
Charismatic
Spiritual
Creative
Organised
Aggressive
Expansive
Industrious
Imperialistic
Protective

This will vary depending on the actual combination of traits a leader has, some work together better than others, and IMO there's a big gap between Spiritual and the rest, the traits above are likely to have a much bigger effect on the way you play than the ones below. Creative-Expansive I'd say were all quite similar, although Creative would definately be on the high end, and Expansive on the low end.

I've never been a fan of Industrious, I like the cheap forges, but I find wonder building is very situational early in the game. I should probably play a game or 2 as Ramesses or De Gaulle or someone focussing on wonders at some point I guess.
 
The way I look at industrious...

On Emperor or above, if you don't take it, you are not getting any early wonders barring a crazy circumstance like stone or marble in your capital's fat cross.

If you do take it, you can't magically farm them or anything, but you can build a couple. Now hopefully, if you are good enough to play on emperor, immortal or deity, you know that not all wonders are created equal, that some are better than others. Chop out the the best of the best, ignore the rest. You aren't likely to lose the race to those ones.

For me, things like the great wall and the oracle are so great that I'm willing to take a trait to insure I get them. The cheap forges are just gravy.
 
MrCynical said:
9)Protective - We're down into the junk traits now. Protective is ultimately the trait for someone who is not playing to win, hence it is actually some use to an AI which is merely trying to survive. Its purely defensive nature is practically useless to a human player which is trying to win. City garrison is not a useful promotion, since something has to go drastically wrong for the AI to be directly assaulting one of your cities. This trait is for someone who is only trying not to lose.
Click to expand...

Well, I still play to win when I play with a protective leader... ;)

It is definitely not purely defensive. Early on maybe, but not once you get either machinery or feudalism and definitely not with gunpowder.

Drill is probably as good as combat for an attacking promotion for gunpowder units. You get a resistance to collateral which helps your stacks survive and drill 4 rifles and muskets are pretty good attackers and stack defenders both.

CG1 is useful for holding cities you capture. One of the reasons that an attack often slows down is that once you are advancing on an AI with strong culture the cities you take are exposed to immediate counterattack with no warning. So you end up having to stack a group of units in the city to hold it while your smaller attack stack moves on.

Protective works really well for me there - a CG3 Drill 2 longbow or musket holds really well against AI counterattacks. Also I can strip my lands of troops for the attack more aggressively because the remaining defenders are pretty strong.

Anyway I agree its in the bottom third, but I don't think its playing to lose - I use it as a military trait and it works well. Cheap buildings aren't exciting, and it doesn't start working for you until later in the game, but its a great trait once you are drafting and have a big gunpowder army advancing through strong enemy culture.
 
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