Limits of freedom - neo-nazi march in Prague

[Irish Caesar]

This is exact scenario happens in the US sometimes. Have you ever seen the movie The Blues Brothers ? It actually looks kind of like that....counter protesters outnumbers the nazis 3:1, and there are cops everywhere.

That's actually the first thing I thought of; apparently the Nazis do like to march through Skokie, Ill. I'm not sure what the appeal is in that particular town... but let them march.

I agree with you that anyone should have the right to Freedom of Speech. However, there is a point where Freedom of Speech becomes provocation and disturbance of society. When a bunch of neonazis decide to hold their march, right in the middle of a Jewish quarter, I don't consider it any longer Freedom of Speech.

Well, I think this more falls under the category of "right of the people peaceably to assemble." The key word is, of course, peaceably. As soon as anyone pulls something which is physically harmful to person or property, whether it be a Nazi or a Jew, he should be arrested.

All in all I start to think that it is a bad thing to legislate about History

Certainly.

 

[EconomistBR]

Allow them to march, start busting heads if things get out of hand.

allow them to march, surround them with a extensive police force, and when they start getting voilent or too rowdy use "excessive" force.

use "execessive force

I agree with both, let the parade go through.

Democracies must NEVER force people into being non-nazis. People must decide for themselves.

But if nazis rise to power, then we call the Americans.

 

[El_Machinae]

As some of you may know, the 10th November is an anniversary of Kristallnacht, one of the greatest pogroms against Jews in Nazi Germany 69 years ago.

A group of Czech neo-nazis announced a march through the Jewish parts of Prague, officially to protest against "Czech soldiers' participation in Iraq". Obviously this is only a pretext anmd the real target are the Jews.

The Prague City Hall banned such demonstration and the court confirmed its decision, but the neo-nazis announced they're going to do that anyway.

http://www.praguemonitor.com/en/200/prague_news/13881/

Some of you, especially Americans, believe that freedom of speech and freedom of meeting can't be restricted. I want you to explain what would you do in this case, when a group of people deliberately provokes the remaining Jews and in fact celebrates what happened to them in WW2.

You should march with them, but have a totally outrageous plackard!

"The JEWS hate Velco!

Or the like

 

[amadeus]

Ban it I say, I dont particularly care about their rights.

I think you could have left "their" out of it and still be correct.

 

[Oruc]

I thought I would throw this in as an historical example of what happens when these marches are allowed to go ahead (note some important differences in the position of the authorities here though):

This is an interesting follow up for those who are interested:

Shame about the communists being involved though

 

[downtown]

That's actually the first thing I thought of; apparently the Nazis do like to march through Skokie, Ill. I'm not sure what the appeal is in that particular town... but let them march.

For some reason, the major concentration of groups like the KKK or the American Nazi Party is in the midwest. We get KKK marchers every so often in Cleveland, Toledo and Lima, and I know that similar headquarters used to be in Indiana.

 

[Trajan12]

Neo-Nazis marching through a Jewish quarter are not trying to simply exercise freedom of speech or peaceful assembly. They're looking to incite disturbance and likely violence. What's the point of giving them their wish and THEN having to go through the trouble of breaking it up AND the aftermath.

 

[Winner]

I hope someone makes a mistake and the policemen get live ammo...

 

[cubsfan6506]

Totalitarian ideologies prey on democracy. IMO democracy must defend itself every time it's threatened.

Yes Democracies best defense against he facists is self destructing.

 

[Quintillus]

Would you allow this march?
No, it's unacceptable in a democratic country.

It's unacceptable to allow people to express their opinions in a democratic country?

I agree with Ecofarm that the Nazis being more visible is a good way to show people how appalling of views they really have. A Nazi came in and spoke to my high school politics class last year, and it was a much more effective way of learning why their views are repulsive than reading about them in books. Though that can be pretty affective, too.

 

[Bast]

I don't really have a clear opinion on this.

That's funny. Do you have an opinion on this then? http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/09/12/2030384.htm



Let me guess, I already know your response. You'll come with some lame excuse about how this is different and how you vehemently oppose the protesters here.

 

[Japanrocks12]

I meant to vote yes.

 

[The Yankee]

That's actually the first thing I thought of; apparently the Nazis do like to march through Skokie, Ill. I'm not sure what the appeal is in that particular town... but let them march.

I believe there were a large number of Holocaust survivors there.

And...let them march. You will know how disgusting their ideas are. If they do march peacefully, then they have merely used their right of speech, even if the choice of location would be particularly disgusting or offensive. That is not illegal, at least, it wasn't when that example was established. However, you could arrest marchers and/or residents if they do start fighting or rioting, since that would be against the law.

Perhaps the best way to tell them how silly they are would be if nobody showed up or if they simply turned their backs during the march.

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

As some of you may know, the 10th November is an anniversary of Kristallnacht, one of the greatest pogroms against Jews in Nazi Germany 69 years ago.

A group of Czech neo-nazis announced a march through the Jewish parts of Prague, officially to protest against "Czech soldiers' participation in Iraq". Obviously this is only a pretext anmd the real target are the Jews.

The Prague City Hall banned such demonstration and the court confirmed its decision, but the neo-nazis announced they're going to do that anyway.

http://www.praguemonitor.com/en/200/prague_news/13881/

Some of you, especially Americans, believe that freedom of speech and freedom of meeting can't be restricted. I want you to explain what would you do in this case, when a group of people deliberately provokes the remaining Jews and in fact celebrates what happened to them in WW2.

Winner, we've had our disagreements in the past... Me being a Russian Communist... You being a Czeck (or however its spelled) nationalist... But in this one instance can we atleast agree the Nazi's are the true enemies?

 

[amadeus]

Winner, we've had our disagreements in the past... Me being a Russian Communist... You being a Czeck (or however its spelled) nationalist... But in this one instance can we atleast agree the Nazi's are the true enemies?

I wouldn't agree. Most of your tyrants are still alive.

 

[The Yankee]

Totalitarian ideologies prey on democracy. IMO democracy must defend itself every time it's threatened.

With anti-democratic measures!

Though, technically, if they did make up 51% of anyone voting, then in a pure democracy, they could set up the gulags and gas chambers and what have you. But even in republics with democratic ideals, they should at least still have the right to shoot their mouths off.

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

I wouldn't agree. Most of your tyrants are still alive.

A. I wasn't talking to you.

B. I said Russian Communist... Most of our tyrants (Mainly Stalin) are dead. And not all our leaders were tyrants, Lenin for example gets a bad reputation but really you must consider the world at that time, a very hard place for a war torn Russia. I dont excuse him for what he did, but the situation defiantly called for such decisiosn at times.

 

[The Yankee]

Not really. Freedom of speech doesn't mean I go to the press and tell them lies about famous people. I'll get sued for defamation.

There are also differences between plain old lying and libel and slander.

Also, though you cannot slander people (even though that doesn't stop a lot of people ), you can call someone a jerk, you can say someone shouldn't be here, etc.

That's why KKK and Nazi groups also tread very thin legal lines and they likely plan out what they say and do well before any such events. Yes, it's disgusting, but we have to protect everyone's rights.

 

[Fëanor]

Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Demonstration are two vital freedoms needed for an healthy Democracy. A good example of nations that limit those are freedoms are Russia and China, Pakistan currently bans both. Not a good direction to go IMHO.

 

[Lotus49]

If it was up to me, I'd throw them in jail simply for supporting this ideology.

.....