Georgian-Russian War: the Western response

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I am not suggesting we dive right in and start offensive operations against Russia, but if we turn our backs on Georgia, how can other allies trust us in the future? We should send the 6th fleet into the Black Sea immediately and use our own airlift capability to get those Georgian troops home asap.

They've (Georgia) sent their sons and daughters into harms way with our own in Iraq. And now when they need our help, our President spends the last few days watching the Olympics from the stands? What's next? Do we let the Russians bully the UK into giving over Northern Ireland?

And you would be surprised if Russian aircraft shot those troop carriers down ?
Remember soldiers are a legitimate target and if the USA wants to become a ally of Georgia do not be surprised if the Russians see the USA that way.

Would the USA get into a scrap with a country that has a nuke or two ?
 
I am not suggesting we dive right in and start offensive operations against Russia, but if we turn our backs on Georgia, how can other allies trust us in the future? We should send the 6th fleet into the Black Sea immediately and use our own airlift capability to get those Georgian troops home asap.

They've (Georgia) sent their sons and daughters into harms way with our own in Iraq. And now when they need our help, our President spends the last few days watching the Olympics from the stands? What's next? Do we let the Russians bully the UK into giving over Northern Ireland?

Forgetting about the Iraq stuff, it is simply humiliating to the US to NOT do anything. After all the talk of helping these countries protect themselves and encouraging NATO membership, the US (and NATO) is proven impotent and unwilling to walk the walk. All of the other countries around Russia are being told "stay under the AEGIS of Russia, because the US is not really your friend".

I don't know what the US should do, but I would say that Russia's primary goal could be the weakening/humiliation of NATO generally, and the US specifically.
 
I'm pretty sure the UK would hand over Northern Island just to piss off the Irish.

Also Quebec should go to Russia too, then we can see some real fireworks.:lol:
 
Forgetting about the Iraq stuff, it is simply humiliating to the US to NOT do anything. After all the talk of helping these countries protect themselves and encouraging NATO membership, the US (and NATO) is proven impotent and unwilling to walk the walk. All of the other countries around Russia are being told "stay under the AEGIS of Russia, because the US is not really your friend".

I don't know what the US should do, but I would say that Russia's primary goal could be the weakening/humiliation of NATO generally, and the US specifically.

Not much the US can do that will drastically change the outcome. Russia is deploying anything up to 400,000 troops into the war.

Russia does not have much in the way of limited goals. They are likely aiming for the complete replacement of the Georgian government, which has been several times referred to as "criminal". At the very least, they want to control Georgia's pipeline and incorporate South Ossetia and Abkhazia into the RusFed. Russia asserts its influence in the Caucasus and the former Sovet Republics (the "Near Abroad") while crippling NATO influence in the region by showing that it is not able to support its own allies. Win, win.
 
Being isolated brings objectivity. You know more but you're so biased that you automatically assume everything is Russia's fault. To me it looks like Georgia started off this conflict with a surprise attack and Russia committed the awful crime of being prepared.

No :p

The fact is that uninformed propaganda-eating Western pseudo-intellectuals simply want to ignore the opinion of people who know what they're talking about, having experienced it themselves, so they come up with all this crap about them beeing "crazy easterners".

Prejudice and ignorance describe it the best.

You in particular are a perfect example. You ignore all the years and years of Russian pressure against Georgia, you ignore that the Russians have violated all the agreements they now claim to be enforcing by sending heavy military equipment to the area prior to any major escalation, you ignore the fact that Russia reacted within about 12 hours, which means their troops had to be mobilized and given the order prior to the Georgian actions in South Ossetia.

You ignore everything that shows that Russia is most probably behind all this. You ignore that they have all the reasons to want to crush the pro-Western regime in strategically important part of Caucasus and assume full control of the oil/gas transit routes to Europe.

Europe is afraid of being dependant on the Russian gas too much. Well, the Russians know that and they're working hard to take control of all alternate sources, so they could become the sole major suppliers. Then the Western European governments would be made even more docile than they're now. And some people in the Western Europe seem to be perfectly happy with that. That's not an ignorance anymore, that's pure insanity.

Of course the Western ideals went down the toilet days ago. Russians are obviously still allowed to bully small countries in their neigbourhood and the enlightened Westerners won't move a finger.

That's just pathetic and perverse.
 
There is no f'ing way Russia is deploying 400,000 troops for this war. N.......O.....

That being said, I agree that there is little militarily the Americans can do. Russia seems to have called their bluff. Sure, the Americans and Europeans can pull diplomatic strings that could ultimately move the Russians out, but that doesn't have the same effect on international image as a show of military capability. Back room deals don't make the Ukrainians or Moldovans feel any better.

While I agree with a foreign policy that wants to help former Soviet countries break the Russian yoke, America was caught with its pants down on this one. The ability to back up the words openly, and militarily, simply isn't there.

Regarding Russian goals:

Replacing the Georgian government IS humiliating to the west. Remember the Rose Revolution? There are a bunch of countries that booted out pro-Russian or neutral governments in favour of pro-western governments. The Russians want to teach them ALL a lesson. If they could have done this to the Ukraine they would have. Georgia is easier pickings and sets a good example. Most oil pipeline theories are slightly overblown. It is definitely an incentive, but a breakdown of Russian control of the Caucasus is more frightening to Russia in terms of internal stability (I think, anyways).
 
Georgia is not important enough for EU and American forces to intervene. And Russia is too powerful for NATO to antagonise it.

This War has made me kinda believe Ill live through a WWIII


Think of it this way... You might NOT live through it either.
 
Why, congratulations for finally understanding the obvious: the "west" is going to lose credibility. And it would lose even more if it tried to support that fool in Tbilisi and was later forced to back down. Thats what "old" Europe's diplomats have known all along. But eastern european political science students are just finding out...

West is going to lose credibility, because it does not stand by its principles. If the West let's the Russians go on rampage in Georgia, it will just give them a blank cheque.

Of course the biased lefties from Finland are never gonna understand that, which makes any serious discussion impossible.

This is one of those cases where the smart move is not to make a move. Saakashailli was not smart, now he gets to pay for it. And his current propaganda, within Georgia, about how the EU and NATO supports Georgia (lies) is not earning him any new friends here in the "west".

As things stand that's the best endgame I can see, for people who just want this mess sorted out, without future wars. And I dare say the most likely now. But he's doing (now!) everything he can to avoid it.

You're totally immoral person who doesn't have a glimpse of what's at stake, like the useful idiots in the past.
 
oh, kosovo... without them, this wouldn't have happened.

of course, it DID set a dangerous precedent for this, so it was to be expected. instead it was overlooked or ignored, despite russian warnings..
 
oh, kosovo... without them, this wouldn't have happened.

of course, it DID set a dangerous precedent for this, so it was to be expected. instead it was overlooked or ignored, despite russian warnings..

A spectacular Western failure gives way to an even more spectacular Western failure....
 
A spectacular Western failure gives way to an even more spectacular Western failure....

What puzzles me is how one wrong could justify another much greater wrong.

Wait! It can't, it's just a lame way used by some people on this forum to avoid admitting the Russians are an aggressive power bent on estabilishing a zone of Moscow-controlled undemocracy in their neighbourhood and that this aggression just proves what those eastern alarmists have been saying all along :lol:
 
A spectacular Western failure gives way to an even more spectacular Western failure....

doesn't it always?

of course, occasionally, a spectacular western SUCCESS leads to an even MORE spectacular failure (ie Afghanistan)
 
doesn't it always?

of course, occasionally, a spectacular western SUCCESS leads to an even MORE spectacular failure (ie Afghanistan)

Only because we distract ourselves with another spectacular failure (Iraq)

(But at least we fixed that one:goodjob:)
 
No it's still . .. .. .. .ed.

Not really. Violence is way down, and Iraqis are running more than the US. It will all be over in a year or so if it continues like this.
 
Think of it this way... You might NOT live through it either.

Nope, Singapore is gonna annex Malaysia without firing a single shot ;)
 
Only because we distract ourselves with another spectacular failure (Iraq)

(But at least we fixed that one:goodjob:)

Oh, I meant the Western response during the Soviet invasion (millions and millions of dollars in munitions from USA, Pakistan, NATO kicked the soviets out, but put the taliban in power)
 
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