End of Empires - N3S III

Spoiler :
AGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You could have warned me about the Chinas NK before I joined there :(. Nice except for that annoying part.

Edit: A small note- the "Ahm Tain" (with a 'h' instead of a 'v') is the river 'Ittocuto" (not sure about the spelling), the one that runs into the sea by Ritti and Vitti. The one labeled the "Avm Taim" is called the "Ahm Enthur".

OOC: Was the AGH directed towards me, or towards thlayli's massive steppe empire? :confused:
 
You could have warned me about the Chinas NK before I joined there :(. Nice except for that annoying part.

Sorry about that. You do have ample room for expansion, however.

Edit: A small note- the "Ahm Tain" (with a 'h' instead of a 'v') is the river 'Ittocuto" (not sure about the spelling), the one that runs into the sea by Ritti and Vitti. The one labeled the "Avm Taim" is called the "Ahm Enthur".

Okay, thanks. :)

I think it was directed towards the Chinese-like countries.

Yeah, about that: everyone please stop your whining about "China-clones", or at least take it out of the thread.

edit: Hey North King, what did my expeditions reveal besides the Gu Ya Rot? Any useful resources?

Not any that they immediately noted. It's a jungle, it will take time to find resources. On the other hand, your explorers have noted that the natives wear bright feathers, if you consider that "useful". :p
 
Lucky Nerussian bastards. :p Damn you Farou!

Poop. I was afraid that this would happen: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7114567&postcount=889 , now it will be much harder to conquer the world.

Great update, I really felt the surge of the awesomement.
OOC: That conversation was actually about the great inland trading route which we recently developed,

From: Union of Aya'se, Republic of Seshweay, Republic of Styr, and All Faithful of the Ancestors
To: Farou, Neruss, all the faithful


Let us liberate the slaves of the tyrant, forwards for the light of liberty, lead them to the fire of justice, teach them of the virtue of freedom, and show them the goodness and strength of freeman.

The Union of Aya'se calls on all the faithful to take up arms against the perfidious Hu'ut, let not the tyrant breathe, suffer not the cruel yoke of slavery, abhor the invaders of Aya'se's people, seek vengeance for ill inflicted. Remember Bahn!

Fatherland, Faith, Unity and Union!

OOC: You've just kicked the religious hornets nest.. you better leave LJ, or face some really pissed of Democrats :p
OOC: I'm not actually a democracy, just a monarchy very dependent on the support of the Family Houses.

IC:

To: Neruss, Union of Aya'se
From: Farou

Indeed! The time has come to end the tyranny of the Hu'ut.

Time for some good ol' diplomacy.

To: The Union of Aya'se and Farou
From: Krato

Krato would like to tell you two that we are willing to join the war against the Hu'ut Empire if you allow us to hold on to some of their territory once they are defeated. Thier power is great, and without Krato your victories will be extremely costly. So please, allow us to have some of Hu'ut's territory and we will contribute greatly to your cause.

OOC: You know, you guys would be dead this turn if the bloody Farou hadn't interfered. :p And how the heck did everybody in this world end up becoming libertarian before Jesus was born? It's not possible at this point of civilization...
Yes it is- Jesus was not the beginning of all things libertarian. :p

The Faroun mindset is quite strongly based around the fact that they were all once slaves to the Hu'ut, and that their destiny is to oneday undo all the evil that they and their bretheren suffered through. Their Solar Religion (Cult of Haiaou) embraces this sense of liberty as well- the sun god is separated from earth, and while it gives blessings, it is up to humans to act and change the world.

OOC: Was the AGH directed towards me, or towards thlayli's massive steppe empire? :confused:
A general sense of disappointment in your utter lack of creativity. ;)

*Waits for alex explaining how this culture is different*
 
Ah yes. Thank you for mentioning that.

To: Krato
From: Farou


We are in this war primarily to bring an end to the Hu'ut Slavers- your assistance would be welcome. If you seek land, however, it may be best to hold a council with other involved nations.
 
Originally posted by alex994
OOC: Was the AGH directed towards me, or towards thlayli's massive steppe empire?

Erhm, what part confused you? The "agh" part, or the reference to the "Chinas"? Its not rocket science :p. And why exactly would that apply to Thlayli?

Originally posted by North King
Sorry about that. You do have ample room for expansion, however.

I have alex as a neighbor. That's gonna ground my expansion :(. Blah.

A general sense of disappointment in your utter lack of creativity.

That's the general thought.
 
“There is a traveler wishing to speak to you. He awaits you upon the Rise.”

It was a simple message, nothing more than a few seconds long and uttered with nothing but a simple significance. I sighed, gently laying the ruffled fabric upon the bench. It was stitched together from numerous hides, threads stretched taunt from the constant working. It was an odd form of relaxation, of sure, but any form was welcome upon these days. Placing it upon the wooden bench, I slowly gathered to my feet and slowly plodded out of the darkened room.

Asyvedr[1] stretched open in front of my eyes, the new city bustling with morning activity. The wide streets of the city were cramped with the dawn's progression, through it was still possible to swiftly navigate through them and towards the hills that lined the the rear of the city. Despite being founded upon the rather gentle, less sloping upper reaches of the chain, the city still had a generous view of the domineering mountains. It was a brisk walk, and a gentle hike, but soon enough I found the rise as instructed. What awaited me took my breath. I crossed a gentle stream, walking into a small clearing that was nestled in between a small series of hills. Aside from the stream that rested upon its lower side, a large apple tree occupied the most space.

He stood facing away from me, staring off into the steeping hills and yet I knew his figure from the instant I spotted him. He was little more than five feet tall, coming to shoulders against most men. He had a thick pallet of hair that was plastered to the top of his head, waves of wispy gray that were gently tied into a tail that hung behind head. He was dressed in the sable that was reserved for the mystics, conservative when compared to the new breed, yet still presenting a strong figure. He turned as I walked into the clearing further, and at once my thoughts were confirmed: twelve years may have passed, and yet he still had those crisp, green eyes. He laughed out loud as he spotted my entering figure, and at once rushed to embrace me. It was a joyous meeting.

“My eyes fail me! I thought I would never see you mature! Yet here you stand today, in lieu of a skinny boy I find a man!” He chuckled, gently pounding the recesses of my back with his balled fist. “It is most good to see you, Rhayn.” He stated, voice dipping slightly. We parted, and the old man dipped at his eyes.

“It is most good to see you, Teacher.” I replied honestly, a foolish smile plastered to my face. “I hope your travels have been generous to you.” The old man smiled again and nodded, gently stepping away from the banks of the stream towards the large apple tree. The old man had been so much more than a mentor, and simply seeing him return was more than a priceless gift.

“Indeed they have.” he gently fell to his knees, and slowly rocked back on them to place his back against the tree. “A world I have seen, and a world I have spent. After these years it is most welcomed to be back home.” He turned his roving eye back to me, and brought back up that wry smile. “I trust you still have room in that complex of yours for an old sage?”

“Always.” I nodded in agreement. “How was the east?”

He face soured considerably. “It is a despair. Upon crossing the river, there was nothing but barbarians.” he spat the word, a moment of anger upon his face. “They are heathens. Idol-worshipers revealing in the primitive nature.” He paused, giving me a strange look. “I must find admit that I find it strange to be in the presence of a new Thorsrdyn. You look so much like your father, it's striking.” He dug slightly at his eyes again, before bristling with energy again. “So, my liege, what have you been up to lately? The words of your antics have greeted my return.”

I snorted at the notion, and gave the old man a gentle shove. “There is no news to report, old man- I awaited your divined guidance.” The mood took a serious turn with the spoken line. The old man shook his head sadly, the smirk dropping from his face. He slowly climbed back to his feet, and reaching upwards plucked a ripen fruit from the tree.

“You knew what you must do. A task as simple as this does not need my guidance. The Truth must be sheltered, and must be brought to prominence in all lands. Including those of the heathens.”

“I fear this.” I looked up, meeting the old man with my eyes. “How can I accept such actions without contributing to the suffering of others? I hear that Îgmâstca[3] is not that nice at this time of the year.” I remarked, the slight form of a smirk born upon the edges of my mouth. The old man chuckled slightly, a wry smile matching my own.

“You mistake the purpose of Îgmâstca if you simply associate it with punishment for suffering.” He paused, tossing the loose apple from hand to hand. “Is is a blessing to bring order and law to these barbarians. To associate punishment is to deny your calling.” He raised the fruit and bit savagely into it, slight dribbling of juice running down the sides. “It is in the matter of intent that you must be careful. Do you seek to cause misery, or do you seek to better your world?”

I thought for a moment, watching as he slowly devoured the fruit. “If I must do this, then I will do so out of a desire to improve our standing. I will do so to bring enlightenment to the vain and foolish.” It was a true answer, I judged. A brief silence lapsed, as I watched the old man continue to slowly pick at the flesh of the fruit. He swallowed, the wry smile appearing on his face once more.

“Rhidtath is not a bad choice, my friend. It is only the common taboo of the uneducated masses that lend the stigma to the force of Deconstruction. After all, must you not remove the bad in order to expand upon the good? I think you will do well to keep this in mind.” He answered finally, finishing his apple. “I take it that you know the differences between the Construction and Deconstruction well enough to come to the same conclusion with an open mind. Forget the stigma and be a ruler.” The sharp comment forced the breath from my chest, but he continued onwards. “You do not have the gift of being one of the uneducated mass, Rhayn. You do have the luxury of being a simple with no influence over the development of our world. You are instead tested with the authority of the Thorsrdyn resting upon your shoulders. You will be judged for your actions and will be weighed accordingly and none will forget your actions. You must be strong enough to accept this or you will never accomplish anything.” The old man, finished with his apple, threw the core into the gentle water. A silence took over the clearing once more.

I watched as he gently reclined against the base of the tree, his words driving deep. I swallowed deeply, breath unstable but quietly returning. “It is not a problem for you to claim this. Even you know not the decisions I must make.” the words stumbled out, shaky in standing. I slunk down against the other side of the tree, not sure if I was able to stand any longer.

“I give you that. There are none who will know this dilemma save for those who hold your position in the future.” He nodded, reflection moving against the smooth surface of the spring. “However, I stand by my words. Those who fear the repercussions never embrace the experiences. You must be capable of making a decision in order to enjoy its benefits.”

“And I suppose you consider Îgmâstca a proper reward? How can you justify punishment as a compensation for the tarnished that I will undertake?” I stared at the man in amazement, stunned that he could ever consider that a reward.

“Child, you mistake the nature of both the Rhidtath[4] and Îgmâstca. I asked that you leave the stigma of the uneducated behind and yet you continue to present this dribble to me.” He rounded the tree suddenly, sorrow born high in his eyes. “Ten years I have taught you and yet you continue to listen to those fools in my place. Have you learned nothing that I have taught?”

“I have learned it all and yet nothing you say makes any form of sense. Your words are those of a mystic and I take them as such.” I defended, on edge from his provoking assaults. “Make sense and I will accept them for more.” It was a tense moment to say the least, both of us matching eyes in an intense visual struggle.

The old man chewed on his lip for only a moment before launching into another lengthly discussion. “I thought I had taught this to you years ago, only to learn now that none of it has stuck.” he shook his head sadly, as if the thought disgraced him. “Since you seem determined to act a child, I will treat you as such.” he stood back up and proceeded to the water's edge. A bare second passed before he whipped himself around, nostrils flared. “Give me the nature of our existence.” His eyes flared as I stumbled with the explanation, his patience tested. “I want it now!”

His words drew up seemingly unknown memories in my mind, lessons years old suddenly freshly ingrained. “The nature of our existence is one of a byproduct of the natural forces of this Plane.” I spurted off, the standard definition fully returned. The old man looked slightly relieved with this, the tension in his face slackened.

“And the Alainti[5]? What composes our visions?” Questions as old the first, yet still fully ingrained. No wonder the mystics seemed so fully consumed by the thought of memory- such a notion is confusing by nature. I returned the rapid0fire answer that he sought.

“This spectrum is all that we see. It is the force of the Runn[6], the building factor that results in everything that has ever been or will ever be. There is the force of the Rhidtath, the factor that results in the removal of everything that has ever been or will ever be. Upon the position where these two meet, there is the Caghr, the balance that must be sought and achieved in order to have stability. If allowed to reign freely, either side will result in the dissolution and imbalance of our world. It is therefore that our Plane rests firmly upon the middle ground.”

The tension in the man's face relaxed further, and in turn I relaxed slightly in return. He did not, however, cease with his lecturing. “By nature, which is the more favorable force- Construction or Deconstruction?”

As I opened my mouth, I paused, something tugging at the rear of my mind for some importance. A second passed and I let the thought pass without consideration. “The Runn must be sought in prominence over its competitor, for the nature of our world promotes it over the counter.” As soon as I uttered that line, I knew it was regrettable. His head snapped back, and mouth promptly dropped open with surprise. A second later, he snapped his mouth shut and those lines in his eyes flared back into prominence.

“Repeat.” He demanded, words spat. He flared again, seeing my hesitation, and made a sharp demand once more. “I said repeat!”

Like a child, I felt my face flush as I offered the line once again. “We must seek the Runn over its counter in order to achieve a more stable and prosperous standing. If the world is lent to the right, then the world will begin to unravel.” The man looked as if he was struck; a look of horror plastered on his face. He jerked his neck upwards, staring upwards at the sky as if conversing with an invisible entity.

“You dare utter such a thing?” he raged, stepping slightly into the gentle flow of water. “I thought I had taught you better. Twelve years of absence has wiped your memory clean! You are insult to my standing!” he spat, enraged plainly. “I spent fourteen years educating you against the wishes of the masses, and yet I see that you have retained nothing! An insult! I sat there numbly, watching the man rage against the sky. He suddenly pivoted in his spot, eyes locking against my own. “You are a disgrace.” The words fell out, and he slowly limped across the flow and down towards the city, falling from view.

I sat there numbly, staring in his direction for some time after he left.



Notes:
[1] Asyvedr: The capital of the Avaimi, located upon the banks of the Ahm Enthur and towards the recess of the mountains. The name roughly means “Realm of Laws”.
[2] I'm generating that the area behind the city is a bit hilly.
[3] Îgmâstca: A purgatory-like existence after life, which is seen (mostly) as a punishment for those who are corrupt and deceitful. Not exactly seen in the same sense as 'hell', considering that Ytauzians believe in reincarnation for those who fail to surpass into the higher existence.
[4]Rhidtath- the force of Deconstruction, seen as the opposing force of the Runn. Associated more with death and decay, through heralded by some as the greater force.
[5]Alainti- The Spectrum of Existence.
[6]Runn: The force of Construction.
 
North King, I presume we (the Moti) do have horseback riding here by this point, right? You did mention there being horses in the south.
 
As to my nation, let me spell it out, I'm a quasi Theocratic-Proportional Democratic-Union which is founded on a religion that preaches world domination as the inevitable consequence of Ancestor Worship it also preaches freedom for believers as well (this is the bit that's changed, the Seshweay now regard other people as people, and thus potential believers). The liberating the slave bit was hyperbole really, I saw it as a more figurative use of the word slavery, ie. service under a tyrant. I did write earlier I'm quite sure that the Seshweay idea of justice is draconian to say the least, death, slavery and indentured labour are common punishments, incarceration does not exist, and financial fines are often extremely prohibitive. My aversion to Tyranny is well known, the Oligarchs which lost half my homeland, the Satarai which occupied my homeland and ruled by the whip, the Empire which forced my state to cohabit with ancient enemies and ran counter to my religion so deciding to defend a little brother of my state from a bully makes perfect sense. The paucity of slaves and the cost of them has probably been the main reason for the decline in the holding of slaves, not to mention the massive irrigation projects and inherent benefit in using freedman. I’m about to abolish the institution of slavery completely, with a good reason, I call dibs on the first Crusade in history. The spread of Ancestor Worship isn’t all that bizarre to be honest, Unity is more than willing to incorporate Ancestors from all sorts of different origins into the Pantheon, the two major “Ancestors” are Pa and Aya’se part of a religious triumvirate I’m about to form.

As to LJ, you invaded a virtual Seshweay puppet, you occupied Seshweay business, attacked a co-religionist with a shared system of government, which since my return to the Sesh I’ve been protecting and assisting.

Without further ado.

From: Union of Aya’se
To: Those interested


The Nerussian Republic, led by its whip has as of this moment agreed to integration inside the Union which also as of this moment in a unanimous vote of the Central Council of the Union has accepted and admitted the Nerussian Republic as a constituent member of the Union complete with seats on the Central Council of the Union. The Nerussian Republic will be free to exercise full internal sovereignty of action as well as external action, so long as it should not conflict with the stated public policy of the Union of Aya’se.

May Aya’se bless us, and keep us.

From: Union of Aya’se newly expanded
To: Trilui


We thank you, our forces will reclaim the lands taken by the Hu’ut Tyrant. Your assistance we are sure will make this easier.

May Aya’se bless you and keep you.

From: The Union of Aya'se etc.
To: Oscadia


The Union will in good spirits to friends extend a gift of 400 gold, with no conditions attached to cover any new fiscal outlays which may have arisen. We wish to reach understandings about mutual trade, and benefit between our nations.

From: Union of Aya’se
To: Murk


The Union wishes to formulate an alliance and a trade policy to our nations mutual benefit. We also wish to get an undertaking that further religious violence in Kardil will be resolved peacefully, or at the minimum with as little damage as possible. The Union views continued religious violence as undesirable and damaging to the stability of the region, and potentially damaging to the Union’s sovereign territory. If your government

From: Union of Aya’se
To: Kardil


The Union wishes to renew our pre-existing alliance and also wishes to formulate a trade policy to our nation’s mutual benefit. We also wish to get an undertaking that further religious violence in Kardil will be resolved peacefully, or at the minimum with as little damage as possible. The Union views continued religious violence as undesirable and damaging to the stability of the region, and potentially damaging to the Union’s sovereign territory. If your government undertakes not to favour either creed present in your state, then the Union will undertake not to interfere in matters which prey grievously on its heart.

From: Union of Aya’se
To: Acca


The Union is most disappointed in the blind persecution of its faithful [OOC: Remember Quasi-Theocracy] and wishes to get an undertaking from your government that it will not interfere in the worship of the faith of Aya’se. We have no interest in war.

From: Union of Aya’se
To: Ritti


The Union would be interested in fostering improved trade relations with your government.
 
OOC: You still didn't explain the insistence on liberating the Hu'ut, who are sort of by the wayside, unless, as I already said, you are keen on more or less conquering liberating the world (or at least the Hu'ut) now that you've decided that all people are people. This rhetoric made sense when it was a war against the Sesh Emperor; but this is a different case entirely, don't you think?
 
:p hyperbole?
 
OOC:

Yes it is- Jesus was not the beginning of all things libertarian. :p

It is not a point about Jesus, it was a point about the period he lived in.

It just doesn't make sense to have a libertarian nation when you are in an age where everybody is suffering from diseases, famine, hunger etc., and where civilization hasn't developed to a point where it has begun thinking in such humanitarian ways that you do.

North King's argument which stated that "What happened on Earth does not matter here, 'cause this isn't Earth" doesn't really make sense either on that note, since we're still human beings. Please do listen to what das says btw:

OOC: You still didn't explain the insistence on liberating the Hu'ut, who are sort of by the wayside, unless, as I already said, you are keen on more or less conquering liberating the world (or at least the Hu'ut) now that you've decided that all people are people. This rhetoric made sense when it was a war against the Sesh Emperor; but this is a different case entirely, don't you think?

There. It simply makes no sense. How the hell have the Farou managed to sustain revolts in the Subal region when robbing the upper class from all their slaves when they were conquered, and how did their 'popular play' spread through the Empire of Hu'ut, sparking slave revolts everywhere? This isn't the Age of Information, and if it was, I still don't have a theatrical tradition.

Actually, I'll leave it here. If I, by any chance, becomes conquered I'll write a complete essay with the mistakes about pre-Jesusian libertarian ideologies, and post it here. So please don't reply to this post, and we'll keep the thread somewhat clean (I won't reply to you at least)
 
hyperbole?

A hyperbole for what? The intention to establish a republic in Hu'ut? The intention to overthrow the present dynasty? The present monarch? The intention to conquer the hell out of the place and call it freedom? The intention to decide that slavery is okay after all as long as it is properly organised, properly applied and kept far away enough from home (and possibly called something else entirely) and turn Hu'ut into a hellhole/cash crop-producing economic colony that will be at the center of moral and practical ideological debates and political powerstruggles in the Union for the next century? :p

Just what are you trying to do here? :p

Also, do the Hu'ut even have state slaves? I wasn't paying attention, but oriental-type despoties tend to prefer to limit slavery (which tends to benefit private persons and undermine the state) and use criminals and/or conscripts from amongst the general population for forced labour. Not that it won't probably lead to revolts all the same, though I agree that attributing it to some silly foreign play will be severely and justly frowned upon by the Classics of Marxism-Leninism and the Patriotic Soviet Historical Science. ;)
 
I don't see the problem, I'm not Libertarian, I'm a bloody Theocracy notice my constant allusions to Aya'se and Ancestor Worship note my almost complete lack of diplomacy with states which do not share my religion I only talk to two, the Farou, and the Trilui. My Republicanism isn't because it's a good "liberal" thing in the modern sense of the word, but because the Ancestors told me to do it.

Let me point out some fun things: Liberty to the Seshweay means, Liberty granted by the Faith, it isn't some abstract humanist concept its a religious precept which is vastly different to our concept of Liberty. If anything the Seshweay use it to legitimize discrimination against non-believers, since they are not of the faith and are thus undeserving of Liberty.

Freedom: Is not "freedom" its yet again another religious ideal, ie. the ability to honor the Ancestors. The Ancestors require some things that are "liberal" in a twisted parody of modern day liberalism, to the Seshweay freedom is for those of faith, screw the rest.

Tyranny: Is synonymous with the rule of one, a tyrant, freeing someone from tyranny can mean to the Seshweay replacing a virtuous despot with a modern sense of the word with a Tyrannical Theocratic-Republic. The Seshweay don't care about the end result all that much so long as it ticks religious boxes. Neruss was run by corrupt despots-Republicans whom I gather converted to my form of government so I didn't crush them. They ticked my religious box.

I have slaves. The Farou probably do as well, they just call them indentured laborers.

@Das as well:

I've previously stated that my diplomacy was hyperbole, if you get out of my territory I'm happy as Larry to leave you be, I don't really have any interest in lands which are already far removed from my core. But establishing a Republic in Hu'ut would be amusing, they don't however have any Ancestor worshipers, but I'm sure I could rustle me up some :p

Ideology is far removed from the realities of governance, pragmatism has a big role in my government :p
 
To: The Union of Aya'se
From: Krato

So, may Krato fight against the Hu'ut in exchange for some of their land?

OOc: No one seems to answer my diplo unless I bug them about it. :(
 
To: Krato
From: Union of Aya'se


The Republic is in-different to Krato taking Hu'ut lands, were not terribly interested in the land. We would far prefer if the Hu'ut left and paid reparations to the Nerussian's and the Union for losses incurred. But since they don't seem willing to negotiate, to borrow a Seshweay adage fill your boots.
 
OOC: Masada, perhaps you misunderstand. What I seek to understand here is this: when your statesmen say that they are going to "liberate the slaves of the tyrant", what are they understood to mean if we are naive? The closest you came to answering that is this: "freeing someone from tyranny can mean to the Seshweay replacing a virtuous despot with a modern sense of the word with a Tyrannical Theocratic-Republic." So does that mean that the official, proclaimed war goal is the overthrowal of the Emperor and imposition of the Sesh model of government? Disregarding the realism of this, if true this assertion leads to many interesting conclusions about the modern Sesh world view (it also provides you with an extra justification for war against just about anyone that you could use if pragmatic interests so dictate or just for the sake of it).
 
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