Should we give back the land to the Native Americans?

[Aramazd]

Your ancestor's may have committed genocide against the Amerindians, but my ancestors came over from Russian pogroms in the 1910s.

Word. My ancestors came here during WWI because of the Armenian Genocide.

I don't see why I should give anything up because some other peoples ancestors were dicks.

 

[Godwynn]

I don't see why I should give anything up because some other peoples ancestors were dicks.

I don't see why I should give up anything because my ancestors were mean.

I had no control over nor choice in the matter.

 

[Nylan]

"Land is not something to be bought or owned!"

 

[aneeshm]

There is an excellent article which I thing could be very meaningful to you, General Kill, given the thoughts and feelings you have expressed in the OP. It's an essay by Paul Graham, in which he explores why discussions on religion and politics tend to inevitably degenerate into confrontational debate, and finally into berserk battles. You can find it here. I'd like your comments on how you think this affects the current discussion.

 

[Neverwonagame3]

There is an excellent article which I thing could be very meaningful to you, General Kill, given the thoughts and feelings you have expressed in the OP. It's an essay by Paul Graham, in which he explores why discussions on religion and politics tend to inevitably degenerate into confrontational debate, and finally into berserk battles. You can find it here. I'd like your comments on how you think this affects the current discussion.

Good points there, but don't they deserve their own thread?

 

[GenMarshall]

This land is mine. My god gave this land to me.

Besides, they are all stinking rich now from the casinos.

And creating JERBS!!!!!

 

[woody60707]

As a side note, most "Native Americans" didn't believe in the concept of land ownership (which is pretty common in foraging societies). You go south a bit, and many societies developed that concept, along with written language and such where that has better merit.

These two cultures were so alien from one another, that one wiping out the other culture in the world we live in was unavoidable. There are no more "Native Americans", that society died out A LONG time ago.

Its wrong to impart characteristics based on their skin color or what ever metric you are using. They are as much a part of this society as I am.

 

[Neverwonagame3]

The most delicious stuff was still happening in WA in the seventies and more broadly in Australia till the sixties.

More details? I didn't know about that.

 

[bhsup]

"Land is not something to be bought or owned!"

Amendments 5 and 14 of the US Constitution would disagree with you.

 

[Formaldehyde]

These two cultures were so alien from one another, that one wiping out the other culture in the world we live in was unavoidable.

You've got to be kidding me. Ever heard of the Cherokee?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee

In the 19th century, the Cherokees were known as one of the "Five Civilized Tribes", because they had integrated numerous cultural and technological practices of their European-American neighbors. According to the 2000 U.S. Census, they are the largest of the 563 federally recognized Native American tribes in the United States.[2]

After being ravaged by smallpox, and pressed by increasingly violent land-hungry settlers, the Cherokee adopted a whiteman's form of government in an effort to retain their lands. They established a governmental system modeled on that of the United States, with an elected principal chief, senate, and house of representatives. On April 10, 1810 the seven Cherokee clans met and began the abolition of blood vengeance by giving the sacred duty to the new Cherokee National government. Clans formally relinquished judicial responsibilities by the 1820s when the Cherokee Supreme Court was established. In 1825, the National Council extended citizenship to the children of Cherokee men married to white women. These ideas were largely incorporated into the 1827 Cherokee constitution.[29] The constitution stated that "No person who is of negro or mulatlo [sic] parentage, either by the father or mother side, shall be eligible to hold any office of profit, honor or trust under this Government," with an exception for, "negroes and descendants of white and Indian men by negro women who may have been set free."[30] This definition to limit rights of multiracial descendants, may have been more widely held among the elite than the general population.[31]

http://www.cherokee.org/

There are no more "Native Americans", that society died out A LONG time ago.

You have obviously never been to Arizona, or many other states in the Western US.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0778676.html

http://www.navajo.org/

http://www.ashiwi.org/

http://www.nau.edu/~hcpo-p/

 

[Masada]

As a side note, most "Native Americans" didn't believe in the concept of land ownership (which is pretty common in foraging societies). You go south a bit, and many societies developed that concept, along with written language and such where that has better merit.

That isn't strictly true, they would have kept to traditional forage grounds, like most hunter-gatherers. It isn't land ownership in the European or otherwise sense of the word but it is land ownership in a more primeval understanding of the concept.

More details? I didn't know about that.

They couldn't vote till 63' in Federal Elections and the last state to give them the vote was Queensland in 67'. They were effectively disenfranchised in land ownership until 75'. Where shoved onto what Americans would term reservations all the way up to the 90ties' (forciably typically). The policies which created "The Stolen Generation" were actually still being used in Western Australia up to the 90ties as well insofar as they the state stripped aboriginal children from their parents at will with no need to justify their act.

 

[caketastydelish]

Yes, we must return to Europe.

Unpractical. Europe's overpopulated as it is. Only way is if it happens gradually (which would be practical since there death rate is higher than birth rate).

I read somewhere that your racial characteristics are adapted from where you're from. So in other words, you naturally feel "more comfortable" in the land from which you came.

Maybe this explains why I get way to hot here in texas? Perhaps I truly belong in Europe? If at any point anyone thinks i'm being sarcastic btw I'm not.

Not only would it probably be better for us, but it would be better for the indegnious Americans. They should have lots of children so they can go back to the population they had before we neary wiped them out.

But here is the hard part: What about the other races? It wouldn't be fair to force blacks to go "back to Africa" since they were forced to come here in the first place. So all Americans of Non-african decent should slowly go back to there homeland. As for the African-americans... It should be there choice as to whether they want to go to Africa or stay.

That's my two cents... And I know a lot of you would totally disagree.

edit: and one more thing... You know how western european countries have higher life expectancies than America?
Perhaps the fact that the majority of people living in western europe "come" from western europe and the majority
of the people living in america do not "come" from america? Could that really be it?

Now don't get me wrong people, I don't consider any race to be superior/inferior to another in any way. But
maybe it is really true that people "perform" (in terms of health) better where they're from, where they're
"built-up" to be?

 

[bhsup]

So all Americans of Non-african decent should slowly go back to there homeland.

This is my homeland. I was born less than 75 miles from where I am sitting right now typing this. No other place on Earth is my 'homeland' any more than Mars is.

 

[caketastydelish]

This is my homeland. I was born less than 75 miles from where I am sitting right now typing this. No other place on Earth is my 'homeland' any more than Mars is.

Where you're ancestors came from. You knew what I really meant...

 

[bhsup]

Yes, I knew, but as you pointed out in your post some of us will disagree . I do not view any land as my home except this land. I couldn't care less from where my ancestors came from. No living aboriginal American has any more special claim to this land than I do. I was born here just like they were.

 

[Dachs]

Warning: reductio ad absurdum is located in this post.

Where you're ancestors came from. You knew what I really meant...

Africa?

 

[caketastydelish]

Yes, I knew, but as you pointed out in your post some of us will disagree . I do not view any land as my home except this land. I couldn't care less from where my ancestors came from. No living aboriginal American has any more special claim to this land than I do. I was born here just like they were.

That's a very easy thing to say when you're of non-aboriginal american decent.

 

[caketastydelish]

Warning: reductio ad absurdum is located in this post.

Africa?

Yes, the human race started in Africa I think everybody knows that by now...

But how about this: the ancestors you had from 1000 years ago. Where they in Africa?

 

[Dachs]

Yes, the human race started in Africa I think everybody knows that by now...

But how about this: the ancestors you had from 1000 years ago. Where they in Africa?

So 1000 years is the statute of limitations on stealing crap, in your opinion?

Seems arbitrary to me.

 

[caketastydelish]

Ok, so forget about the "these people stole land from that people" thing.

Just look at it this way: Don't you think its a crying shame for an entire race of people that once made up a significant continent to go down to (I think) under one percent?

Its just a shame that an entire race of people should have to be wiped out like that.
And if everyone moved back to where they came from in America, it would help reverse the damages. This way the native language culture traditions etc could survive better.