If Civ V is so easy, why isn't everybody winning on Emperor?

[EmpireOfCats]

One of the nice things about Steam -- and, full disclosure, I'm a fan -- is that it allows you to see what people are doing by awarding achievements and publishing the related statistics. This is why the early achievements are so trivial: If 12 percent of the people haven't founded a second city, ever, you know most of them just have the game sitting around on their computer, pretty much unplayed.

Now we can use these statistics to check the claim that Civ V is "too easy" and "dumbed down". Let's look at the numbers about victory levels:

Baby Steps (Settler): 10.2 percent
Taking off the Training Wheels (Chieftan): 15.3 percent
The Alexman (Warlord): 6.6 percent
Charming, Really (Prince): 4.8 percent
The Once And Future King: 0.7 percent
The Golden Path (Emperor): 0.3 percent
Flawless Strategy (Deity): 0.2 percent

Obviously there are a lot of people not finishing their games, but we already know that (personally, I tend to quit any Civ game when I either get too far ahead or too far back).

If Civ V were really as easy as the detractors here claim, I would expect the percentage of wins on Emperor and Deity to be a lot higher, with people ramping up the difficulty to try to make the game enjoyable. It's not like everybody is leaving in disgust, either, as you can see by the number of players on the Steam Stats.

(Personally, I'm trying to tell my sense of self-respect I should at least win one game on Settler just to get the achievement...)

 

[Fistalis]

Some people never liked the idea of giving the AI cheat mode. I was one of those. Others simply havent finished a game at that difficulty lvl or put the game aside due to crash issues. Or as you stated simply played a bit and put it away. The "its too easy" is coming mainly from civ vets.. gotta remember this was pretty much marketed to civ new comers which is why you see alot of the "its too hard" complaints as well. But tbh no amount of speculation will explain it, just some theories to throw in the mix

 

[Ogrelord]

Maybe 'cause everyone who has the game is trying all 18 Civs.. thus not finishing their games. See which one suits their game style and then pick one they like and will try to finish the game.

 

[KAuss]

It really comes to a point where you know you will win... I know this has been said a million times, but I like the first 2/3 of the game more where you have to really think what the next best move it, instead of what is the fastest way to end the game moves...

I've seen a video of a kid playing NBA2K10 with sliders set to lowest setting for CPU and highest for player... The guy ended up in my player mode with a 465ish piont win vs like 10... He played 12 min quarters and all he does is hit the steal button when they are in the back court and shoot a contested 3 for 95% shot percentage...

How does one sit through something like that is beyond me... The AI in this game sorta gets to that point after the 2/3 mark...

 

[BjoernLars]

I'm not hardcore like some of the people we see posting their stories about how they dominate the AI. Prince seems like a good enough level for me since it is challenging enough for me without being left behind nor easy enough that I completely outpace everyone else technologically.

 

[CornPlanter]

Because most of the people play it casually and are perfectly happy with whatever low difficulty they play on. It's that simple.

Civ5 emperor is about as difficult as Civ4 Prince. Everybody can win it with a little bit of game knowledge and a little bit of thinking, if you really go for win. There's no real challenge in it.

 

[kaltorak]

Dumb as hell AI compensated by 200000000 free units, doesn't make the game good.

Not saying civ5 is bad, I like it, just an example for the OP to see how stupid his comment was.

 

[EmpireOfCats]

Not saying civ5 is bad, I like it, just an example for the OP to see how stupid his comment was.

Thank you for your polite input.

Okay, then how about this: All you people who say the game is too easy, why don't yo go out right now (or when you are off work, etc) and beat the game at Deity. Make a nice little bump in that Steam curve to prove a) there are a lot of you and b) it really is trivial. You don't have to enjoy the game, just do it once on tiny/quick to prove your point. In fact, if there is a sudden spike of Deity wins, I'm sure Firaxis would get your message a lot better than just general complaining here. If they are embarrassed enough, they'll patch, and we all win.

 

[kaltorak]

Okay, then how about this: All you people who say the game is too easy, why don't yo go out right now (or when you are off work, etc) and beat the game at Deity.

Wut? You just said the same thin you said above, you didn't put it any other way.

Let me clarify again:

I play king. The AI already gets bonuses but it's still easy because it plays very bad. Now I don't go deity because I don't want to just face the same dumb easy AI but with 2000 free units,techs,money...

Sorry about calling your coment stupid, my english is not perfect and didn't know another adjective. Change it for "your coment doesn't make sense"

EDIT: and another thing. This game has been out for not much mroe than a week. Players not able to beat it on Deity doesn't mean it's not too easy. The game has to last years after all. Another point why your coment doesn't make sense.

 

[CornPlanter]

All you people who say the game is too easy, why don't yo go out right now (or when you are off work, etc) and beat the game at Deity.

I am not even sure I could beat the game at Deity right now. I have played only 4 games till now. 2 wins on King 2 wins no Emperor 1 very early quit on Emperor when I realized I was doing things wrong. No other loses. In my books that's the definition of "too easy", I dont need any more proof. So far judging by my progress I am pretty confident I will beat deity no later than this month. For comparison, I've been playing Civ4 since release and I win only about 40% of my Immortal games and still cannot win on Deity.

 

[Falk]

If Civ V were really as easy as the detractors here claim, I would expect the percentage of wins on Emperor and Deity to be a lot higher, with people ramping up the difficulty to try to make the game enjoyable.

You are confusing two things. People are saying that Civ5 has been dumbed down which is not the same as saying the game is easier to beat.

Let me give an extreme example to make this obvious: think of a game that consists solely of rolling a die. You get to roll a six-sided die, the AI gets hundred-sided dice. Whoever rolls higher wins. We probably agree that this game is as dumbed down as it gets but still extremely hard to beat. (And no, I am not implying that Civ5 is like rolling dice )

This makes your Steam stats irrelevant. If anything they may help you decide whether the game is easy to beat or not, but they say nothing about it being dumbed down or not.

 

[KAuss]

Diety is meant to be impossible... If the AI was doing anything right, they would of sent their 10x bigger army to your capital and ended the game before you research pottery...

How can you hold off an army of 10 warriors with a single town and a warrior that is off scouting?

If the player had that kind of advantage, the cpu would never see pottery either...

That's why it's not worth proving, because despite all the advantages, the AI does not know ho w to use them properly...

I think if you played a prince game against a team of 4 cpus, you'd have more fun than 1 mega empire on diety...

I get my A$$ handed to me on Civ IV, but now I think it's because of the broken combat system that favors production and not tactics...

 

[AdamMorva]

Personally, I rarely ever finish a game. When I'm in a certain winning position I just quit. My third game was on Emperor and without microing the workers (the current worker AI is incredibly ******ed) or doing a deep, well thought out strategy I still won.
I haven't tried deity yet, but what I've noticed on emperor (judging from two games so far) is this:
The AI players are VERY aggressive and they tend to attack you all at once. They gather a big group of soldiers near your border (call back your stupid workers, always have some archers on hills and forests so you'll know when you are about to get invaded and try to declare war and seize the first strike), but once you've fended them off they stop sending troops and are vulnerable to a counter attack. Emperor is not that hard. But the Civ5 criticism out there is not (just) because it's easy, but because it's not much fun. It's simple, it doesn't require a brain.

 

[daunt]

The game is really easier than before. I mean, you can win on Emperor by simply mastering the concept of city specialization. In Civ4, it was enough only until Monarch.

No solid proof is needed as long as YOU know your limit in Civ4 and now get beyond it easily after less than a week.

However, the game is easy just because the AI is terrible at controlling its units (and also its advantages seems weaker than in Civ4... maybe they did it to compensate the lack of tech trade, but it will need some finetuning), not because the game has got no depth. If the AI becomes a valid opponent again, at least on emperor and deity, all the different stats and options of the game will have to be explored. Right now you don't need to explore the game, as playing normally usually grants you a win on any level.

 

[katipunero]

Does not the very fact that the game had already been beaten on its hardest setting barely a week after its release shine a clear portent on how the game actually plays out? Besides .01% becomes rather significant when we talk about 100,000 or more players who have finished the game. Another problem in your analysis is how the percentages do not add up to a hundred percent. There are more than 50% unreported and unaccounted games which may or may not include more deity or emperor wins.

I am not saying the game is dumbed down. I have yet to take my first crack at the game so clearly I am not in the position to pass judgment. I am just pointing out that the data you presented is unreliable at best, and probably incomplete at worst to create any valid and substantial conclusion.

 

[aimlessgun]

Well I'm about to abandon my first game, which is on king. Guess I'll take up the diety challenge and play all the way through to buff the stats (assuming I can win!).

 

[EmpireOfCats]

Let me give an extreme example to make this obvious: think of a game that consists solely of rolling a die. You get to roll a six-sided die, the AI gets hundred-sided dice. Whoever rolls higher wins. We probably agree that this game is as dumbed down as it gets but still extremely hard to beat.

Ah, now that makes sense, dankeschön. So, if I understand the complaints here, it is not that the game is "too easy", but more something along the lines of:

The parts that are fun are too easy, and the parts that are not too easy are no fun.​

Is that about right?

 

[PieceOfMind]

The only reason I haven't beaten Deity yet (well, at least this is what I like to think ) is the ridiculous advantages the AI gets in unit costs and the what-would-be extremely tedious task of slogging through this many units...

Spoiler :

There are so many reasons it's flawed to use the stats about Steam Achievements to assess the difficulty of the game, it's hardly worth going over again. It's already in the thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9690683

 

[Falk]

dankeschön

Bitteschön!

The parts that are fun are too easy, and the parts that are not too easy are no fun.

Is that about right?

I wouldn't put it like that. For me the game is too simple to be fun. And by simple I do not mean easy to beat, but rather that it's lacking depth, offers too few strategic options and doesn't give me enough decisions to make.

@PieceofMind
Nice screenshot.

 

[KAuss]

Can you even "move" a unit in that screen shot? It looks completely land locked...

1st problem is playing continents... This just lets the other AI steamroll without being checked... That picture is disgusting...

I think on Diety games, you HAVE to play on tiny maps... And Pangea...