What we can learn from New Vegas and Civ V?

Is Nintendo god?

  • Yes, he is a merciful one too, repent sinners!

    Votes: 23 19.8%
  • Kinda, they do make good/ the best games

    Votes: 17 14.7%
  • They are just as good as some other componies

    Votes: 32 27.6%
  • No, I'm a casual so I only play non-Nintendo games

    Votes: 8 6.9%
  • No, I think playing bland, colourless shooters is fun

    Votes: 36 31.0%

  • Total voters
    116
Sorry, I don't care how great 1 & 2 were, Fallout 3 is an incredible experience. I played 2, and it was fun for what it was, but in no way did it envelope me in it's universe as strongly as 3. Reading your comments about the short main quest makes me wonder if you spent much time playing. I spent more than 200 hours exploring the capital wasteland, and the main quest was maybe 10% of that. I've never seen a game with so much content, and such freedom of exploration.

Fallout3 had its moments. But today, it is still sitting pretty on my desktop, incomplete. I've sunk some 100 hours IIRC into but the last few I was like, "am I doing something wrong, it's so not fun anymore". One day I just stop launching the game. It is still waiting to be completed. One day. Perhaps.

I was so excited when Fallout3 was released too. Well now New Vegas, I only found out while browsing this forum.

Some of the games Psyringe listed are good games for their time. I still prefer Morrowind's to Oblivion's world. Regardless that both FO3 and TESIV:O won some nifty awards. Too much sameness in many parts of the game for me.
 
Sorry, I don't care how great 1 & 2 were, Fallout 3 is an incredible experience. I played 2, and it was fun for what it was, but in no way did it envelope me in it's universe as strongly as 3. Reading your comments about the short main quest makes me wonder if you spent much time playing. I spent more than 200 hours exploring the capital wasteland, and the main quest was maybe 10% of that. I've never seen a game with so much content, and such freedom of exploration.

Well, I guess it hugely depends where one's coming from. Hence my question which RPGs you played before. (There's a reason why I didn't mention Fallout 2 btw, I don't think it stands out from the crowd particularly well.)

We obviously rate the game differently. Please don't get me wrong, I don't want to diminish your appreciation for Fallout 3. If the game captured you so much, then I'm happy for you that you found something that you enjoyed so much. But let me try to explain where some of the differences might be.

First, you praise the game a lot for its content, and played only 200 hours. I just checked; I played 83 hours before the boredom overwhelmed me. Compared to other games of its type, that's pretty much a failure. Fallout 3 is the first Bethesda game that I spent less than 100 hours on. I sunk a couple hundred hours in Oblivion (after mods turned the initially broken design into something enjoyable), and definitely more than 1000 into Morrowind. Had I played Fallout 3 for 200 hours I'd still say its mediocre compared to other games of its type.

Then, you mention freedom of exploration. I don't know, I can see how it may look like this for a player used to more linear gameplay. For example, if someone came from FPS games to Fallout 3 (not saying that you did, just an example), then I can see how the world of Fallout 3 looks vast and open. However, when I played Fallout 3, the first thing I noticed when I entered the wasteland was how small the map is. I went from the Vault to Megaton, looked at the distance I already covered on the main map, and thought "Please don't tell me that that's the only map of the game." In Morrowind, I spent several hundred hours before I had even explored a quarter of the map. Then, Fallout has lots of buildings that you just can't enter. A player coming from an FPS background probably wouldn't even think about that as a limitation, but if you come from vast RPG worlds where every building has an interior, can be entered and explored, and is occupied by people with whom you can talk, then Fallout's "lots of space" begin to feel pretty fake. Speaking of people to talk to: Why are Fallout 3's NPCs so limited in their dialogue? Why can't I ask them about their beliefs, about the area they live in, what they think of other factions, or what they think of the people they live with? Ever since dialogue has gone "fully voiced", the amount of dialogue in games has been cut down tremendously. Planescape (IIRC) had 800.000 characters of dialogue, try to find that in Fallout. Then, where's the detailed background? When I played Morrowind, the third town I entered had a bookstore. And I spent two hours of real time reading through the books there, immersing myself in the strange and original stories of alien gods, or Dunmer folklore, or the first glimpse of the lost and forgotten Dwemer culture. Where does Fallout 3 have something that comes even close? Before that, in the second city I entered, I probably spent half an hour asking a priest about her gods and her beliefs - 9 gods, each one with his own domain, and that's just one of the belief systems you can encounter in this world.

Then there's the main quest. In Morrowind, you uncovered millennia-old mysteries in a conflict of mortals turned into god-like beings. None of the characters is black or white, each one has his own motivations, each one has his own explanation of the past events. You work your way to at least three totally different, contradicting accounts of what actually happened, you always wonder who might be telling the truth or who might only be manipulating you. Similarly, Planescape:Torment puts you into a rich universe as a mysterious character who cannot die, who lost his memories, who has instructions tattooed on his back, and who desperately tries to find out who he is. You meet people who may have met one of your former selves, and again you can never be sure whom to trust. No character has "friend" or "foe" written on his forehead, angels might turn out to be mad, and the evil witch that everyone fears might help you more than anybody else - or she might not, who knows if you can trust her. Now compare that to Fallout 3: the main quest is about securing a water supply for the people of the wasteland, and (presumably) preventing it from falling it into the hands of the Enclave. From the first moment, it's clear that securing the water supply is the "good" thing to do. Your father is a cardboard cliché "good" character if there ever was one, and while I hope that the Enclave may be more than a bunch of misled militaristic autocrats, I kind of fear that they are just the "evil" counterparts to your father's "good" intentions. It is utterly boring. It doesn't give my mind anything to do. Everything is laid out clear before me as if I'm just following instructions. Do you want to be the good guy, follow plan A. Do you want to be the bad guy, follow plan B. Yay for choices. Yawn.

I could go on, but I don't want to bore you as much as Fallout 3 bored me in the end. As I said, I totally understand that Fallout 3 might be positively overwhelming to someone who has little experience with former RPGs. But put beside those, I can only see it as a step backwards. It has its moments, but it doesn't really capture me.
 


I don't know why people think Nintendo is a good company. All it does is make games with recycled stories aimed at 6-10 year-old's that feature a lack of gameplay, and innovation. Bethesda makes games that have nearly endless gameplay, that have open and realistic worlds. Also any game that gets ported to the Wii is an abomination from it's original form.
 
I am of course talking about the great and wonderful Nintendo, the old, old one, he who created the world and who's prophets died for our sins (Mario). Put down your false idols and rejoice in the splendor of the merciful LORD, he who created all forms of game genre.
Just to clarify, you know that Nintendo is not a person... right?

And there were games out way before Nintendo came around...
 
Psyringe practically captured the Morrowind vs Oblivion situation for me.

I actually enjoy reading game lore for example, as I like to read Civilopedia. Dragon's Age background lore is nice too - they even break it down to sections - but could do with more. I guess it was a start. And I didn't play the expansions, so perhaps they did expand on that.

To add on, in the new generation of games, there has been more 'sameness'. Too many locations give the feeling of been there, done that. Even when the player were experiencing it for the first time in game. Vanilla Oblivion had this issue mostly with the random caves which are populated with nearly the same creatures that leveled up with you - took the joy out of exploring. Not much "WOW I haven't seen this before" after the first few hours.
 
I never played Morrowind, but I did play Oblivion, and I noticed right away that the Fallout 3 map was quite a bit larger. Was Morrowind bigger than Oblivion? Also I thought the diversity of areas to explore was much greater in FO3 compared to Oblivion. In FO3, there's hundreds of places to explore and discover, and they're all unique, whereas in Oblivion once you visit an elven ruin, you've pretty much seen them all. Really, there's five or six types of locations (mines, caves, forts, elven ruins) and all caves are pretty much the same, all forts are pretty much the same, etc. And again, if you only look at the main quest in FO3, yeah, it's short and boring. But that is the tiniest, tiniest fraction of the game, the side-quests are much better than the main quest.

As for PC RPG's I've played...I've played a few, but by no means am I an expert. Most of my RPG experience comes from pen and paper games, starting in the fourth grade.

Planescape sounds incredible though.

Well, I guess it hugely depends where one's coming from. Hence my question which RPGs you played before. (There's a reason why I didn't mention Fallout 2 btw, I don't think it stands out from the crowd particularly well.)

We obviously rate the game differently. Please don't get me wrong, I don't want to diminish your appreciation for Fallout 3. If the game captured you so much, then I'm happy for you that you found something that you enjoyed so much. But let me try to explain where some of the differences might be.

First, you praise the game a lot for its content, and played only 200 hours. I just checked; I played 83 hours before the boredom overwhelmed me. Compared to other games of its type, that's pretty much a failure. Fallout 3 is the first Bethesda game that I spent less than 100 hours on. I sunk a couple hundred hours in Oblivion (after mods turned the initially broken design into something enjoyable), and definitely more than 1000 into Morrowind. Had I played Fallout 3 for 200 hours I'd still say its mediocre compared to other games of its type.

Then, you mention freedom of exploration. I don't know, I can see how it may look like this for a player used to more linear gameplay. For example, if someone came from FPS games to Fallout 3 (not saying that you did, just an example), then I can see how the world of Fallout 3 looks vast and open. However, when I played Fallout 3, the first thing I noticed when I entered the wasteland was how small the map is. I went from the Vault to Megaton, looked at the distance I already covered on the main map, and thought "Please don't tell me that that's the only map of the game." In Morrowind, I spent several hundred hours before I had even explored a quarter of the map. Then, Fallout has lots of buildings that you just can't enter. A player coming from an FPS background probably wouldn't even think about that as a limitation, but if you come from vast RPG worlds where every building has an interior, can be entered and explored, and is occupied by people with whom you can talk, then Fallout's "lots of space" begin to feel pretty fake. Speaking of people to talk to: Why are Fallout 3's NPCs so limited in their dialogue? Why can't I ask them about their beliefs, about the area they live in, what they think of other factions, or what they think of the people they live with? Ever since dialogue has gone "fully voiced", the amount of dialogue in games has been cut down tremendously. Planescape (IIRC) had 800.000 characters of dialogue, try to find that in Fallout. Then, where's the detailed background? When I played Morrowind, the third town I entered had a bookstore. And I spent two hours of real time reading through the books there, immersing myself in the strange and original stories of alien gods, or Dunmer folklore, or the first glimpse of the lost and forgotten Dwemer culture. Where does Fallout 3 have something that comes even close? Before that, in the second city I entered, I probably spent half an hour asking a priest about her gods and her beliefs - 9 gods, each one with his own domain, and that's just one of the belief systems you can encounter in this world.

Then there's the main quest. In Morrowind, you uncovered millennia-old mysteries in a conflict of mortals turned into god-like beings. None of the characters is black or white, each one has his own motivations, each one has his own explanation of the past events. You work your way to at least three totally different, contradicting accounts of what actually happened, you always wonder who might be telling the truth or who might only be manipulating you. Similarly, Planescape:Torment puts you into a rich universe as a mysterious character who cannot die, who lost his memories, who has instructions tattooed on his back, and who desperately tries to find out who he is. You meet people who may have met one of your former selves, and again you can never be sure whom to trust. No character has "friend" or "foe" written on his forehead, angels might turn out to be mad, and the evil witch that everyone fears might help you more than anybody else - or she might not, who knows if you can trust her. Now compare that to Fallout 3: the main quest is about securing a water supply for the people of the wasteland, and (presumably) preventing it from falling it into the hands of the Enclave. From the first moment, it's clear that securing the water supply is the "good" thing to do. Your father is a cardboard cliché "good" character if there ever was one, and while I hope that the Enclave may be more than a bunch of misled militaristic autocrats, I kind of fear that they are just the "evil" counterparts to your father's "good" intentions. It is utterly boring. It doesn't give my mind anything to do. Everything is laid out clear before me as if I'm just following instructions. Do you want to be the good guy, follow plan A. Do you want to be the bad guy, follow plan B. Yay for choices. Yawn.

I could go on, but I don't want to bore you as much as Fallout 3 bored me in the end. As I said, I totally understand that Fallout 3 might be positively overwhelming to someone who has little experience with former RPGs. But put beside those, I can only see it as a step backwards. It has its moments, but it doesn't really capture me.
 
I never played Morrowind, but I did play Oblivion, and I noticed right away that the Fallout 3 map was quite a bit larger. Was Morrowind bigger than Oblivion? Also I thought the diversity of areas to explore was much greater in FO3 compared to Oblivion. In FO3, there's hundreds of places to explore and discover, and they're all unique, whereas in Oblivion once you visit an elven ruin, you've pretty much seen them all. Really, there's five or six types of locations (mines, caves, forts, elven ruins) and all caves are pretty much the same, all forts are pretty much the same, etc. And again, if you only look at the main quest in FO3, yeah, it's short and boring. But that is the tiniest, tiniest fraction of the game, the side-quests are much better than the main quest.

As for PC RPG's I've played...I've played a few, but by no means am I an expert. Most of my RPG experience comes from pen and paper games, starting in the fourth grade.

Planescape sounds incredible though.

Planescape is incredible. One of the best. The BG series as well.

Don't let Psyringe discourage you. What immerses you into a game is obviously different than what immerses him. It makes neither preference more or less correct. Fallout does an excellent job immersing you with raw atmosphere while Planescape and Morrowind do their immersion with a lot of the attention to detail that he mentions. Personally, I like both methods, and maybe someday there will be a nice blend because to be perfectly honest, all those little finite details do tend to get a bit mundane after a while.

I've been playing CRPG's since the original Gold Box game Pool of Radiance. I've experienced them in all shapes and sizes, and found as much enjoyment in Fallout as I did in Morrowind and many, many others that I have played. Planescape is on a whole other level, but it's one of the best games in history, so comparing anything to it is rather unfair.
 
Oh, charon... if you want some serious immersion, play Batman: Arkham Asylum if you haven't already.

Oh. My. God.

For an action console game, it transitions nicely to the PC, and has all of those quality details that Psyringe mentions. It's so good that you forget you're playing an action game and actually think you are playing an RPG.
 
I played it. I thought it was really good, I love the hand to hand combat. Until the very end, and then it kind of falls apart.

Oh, charon... if you want some serious immersion, play Batman: Arkham Asylum if you haven't already.

Oh. My. God.

For an action console game, it transitions nicely to the PC, and has all of those quality details that Psyringe mentions. It's so good that you forget you're playing an action game and actually think you are playing an RPG.
 
I never played Morrowind, but I did play Oblivion, and I noticed right away that the Fallout 3 map was quite a bit larger. Was Morrowind bigger than Oblivion? Also I thought the diversity of areas to explore was much greater in FO3 compared to Oblivion. In FO3, there's hundreds of places to explore and discover, and they're all unique, whereas in Oblivion once you visit an elven ruin, you've pretty much seen them all. Really, there's five or six types of locations (mines, caves, forts, elven ruins) and all caves are pretty much the same, all forts are pretty much the same, etc. And again, if you only look at the main quest in FO3, yeah, it's short and boring. But that is the tiniest, tiniest fraction of the game, the side-quests are much better than the main quest.

As for PC RPG's I've played...I've played a few, but by no means am I an expert. Most of my RPG experience comes from pen and paper games, starting in the fourth grade.

Planescape sounds incredible though.

I highly recommend Planescape: Torment.
Fantastic game. :king:
 
I highly recommend Planescape: Torment.
Fantastic game. :king:

Yurp, seconded. The first 2 Fallouts are very good too. I kind of agree that the third game was a bit of a step backwards in terms of storytelling and roleplaying, but from what I've played so far of New Vegas it's got a lot better.
 
I never played Morrowind, but I did play Oblivion, and I noticed right away that the Fallout 3 map was quite a bit larger. Was Morrowind bigger than Oblivion?
That question was hotly debated when Oblivion was released. Bethesda claimed that Oblivion wasn't smaller because it "covered the same amount of square miles", but that's a silly way to compare the sizes; by that criterion the 16x16 tile mini world map for Civ3 would be larger than Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout together because it covers even more square miles. In any case, even if the maps were of equal size (I don't think so, but let's assume it for the sake of the argument), then Morrowind still feels much larger for a number of reasons:
- Morrowind has many landscape features which separate map areas. You can't easily walk a straight line between two points.
- more diverse landscape
- the character moves slower, therefore it takes longer to cross the map
- Oblivion has an "auto travel" feature which can take you immediately, without any risk, to any place you already visited

I think Fallout was an improvement in that regard over Oblivion, but I don't think it reached Morrowind.

Also I thought the diversity of areas to explore was much greater in FO3 compared to Oblivion. In FO3, there's hundreds of places to explore and discover, and they're all unique, whereas in Oblivion once you visit an elven ruin, you've pretty much seen them all.
True, Fallout did that that better than Oblivion, though the difference isn't that much. Oblivion does have its unique places, and Fallout does get repetitive too after a while (the subway stations aren't that different from each other, are they?). But to be fair, Morrowind does get repetitive in that regard too. The difference is, in Morrowind it was (imho) more likely to stumble upon a quest, or some notes that told a story. Also, Fallout is a bit limited by its post-apocalyptic theme. Even in Oblivion, each type of "dungeon" had its specific architecture, enemies, and rewards. In Fallout, the ubiquitous piles of rubble get old after a while. And then there's the question of the rewards you get for exploring. In Morrowind, there was a wider range of interesting things you could find, including lots of unique items. In Fallout, you mostly find weapon, armor, drugs, and tons of ammunition.

However, I can see what you mean by "unique locations". It's clearly visible that Bethesda tried to put little touches into its world, to make the wasteland interesting and to reward exploring. In the middle of nowhere you can suddenly stumble across an NPC who can create powerful drugs for you if you bring him the right ingredients, or you may find an an abandoned lab and a recipe that lets you make previously useless meat much more nutritious. This is good, it gives the locations a unique character. But for some reason, it wasn't enough to capture me for long. (There also is the bobblehead quest, but that felt utterly artificial and contrived to me - what are these heads meant to represent in the gameworld anyway, and how can finding a bobblehead make me stronger?)

But anyway, as I said, I can see why players might like Fallout 3. It's not a failed game imho, it just was the least enjoyable Bethesda game I played so far. And since it cements the move from RPGs with extreme attention to detail and storytelling to RPG/Action hybrids with simpler stories and characters, less focus and content, and more focus on presentation, I see it as a further step backwards rather than a progress.

Planescape sounds incredible though.
It is. I probably shouldn't praise it too much, as it does have it faults too - the presentation hasn't aged well, the AD&D ruleset was never very well-suited for story-centered RPGs, and some parts of the game never worked (ranged combat for instance). But the thing is, Planescape's unique story, interesting characters, and huge attention to detail outweigh these shortcomings effortlessly. Planescape is one of the games that could never have been made by a company that's focused on selling the most games and attracting the widest audience, economically the whole undertaking was sheer madness from start to finish. But it's one of the very few games which outgrew the limitations of being a mass entertainment product, and demonstrates that games can be a form of art.
 
The games industry is going to enslave us all. We are all going to die. Mark my words.
 
the AD&D ruleset was never very well-suited for story-centered RPGs, and some parts of the game never worked

Which is probably why I would recommend Neverwinter Nights 1...

It captured the ruleset quite nicely, and the mod community content (nwvault.ign.com) is overwhelming, and full of some magnificent storytelling and modules.
 
Wtf is up with this broken poll? I didn't vote simply because i hate nintendo but neither am i a casual player nor do i like bland colorless shooters (unless MGS is bland and colorless) . Nintendo is and will always be very bad (not saying it was a decade ago but they've turned to the dark side of suckyness some years ago).
 
I like the post-apocalyptic setting actually, that never bothered me much. To be honest, I never considered Fallout 3 to be a true RPG in any sense of the word. It's more of a FPS/RPG/open world hybrid thing. But whatever you label it, I like it. :goodjob:

Maybe I should check out Morrowind too.

That question was hotly debated when Oblivion was released. Bethesda claimed that Oblivion wasn't smaller because it "covered the same amount of square miles", but that's a silly way to compare the sizes; by that criterion the 16x16 tile mini world map for Civ3 would be larger than Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout together because it covers even more square miles. In any case, even if the maps were of equal size (I don't think so, but let's assume it for the sake of the argument), then Morrowind still feels much larger for a number of reasons:
- Morrowind has many landscape features which separate map areas. You can't easily walk a straight line between two points.
- more diverse landscape
- the character moves slower, therefore it takes longer to cross the map
- Oblivion has an "auto travel" feature which can take you immediately, without any risk, to any place you already visited

I think Fallout was an improvement in that regard over Oblivion, but I don't think it reached Morrowind.


True, Fallout did that that better than Oblivion, though the difference isn't that much. Oblivion does have its unique places, and Fallout does get repetitive too after a while (the subway stations aren't that different from each other, are they?). But to be fair, Morrowind does get repetitive in that regard too. The difference is, in Morrowind it was (imho) more likely to stumble upon a quest, or some notes that told a story. Also, Fallout is a bit limited by its post-apocalyptic theme. Even in Oblivion, each type of "dungeon" had its specific architecture, enemies, and rewards. In Fallout, the ubiquitous piles of rubble get old after a while. And then there's the question of the rewards you get for exploring. In Morrowind, there was a wider range of interesting things you could find, including lots of unique items. In Fallout, you mostly find weapon, armor, drugs, and tons of ammunition.

However, I can see what you mean by "unique locations". It's clearly visible that Bethesda tried to put little touches into its world, to make the wasteland interesting and to reward exploring. In the middle of nowhere you can suddenly stumble across an NPC who can create powerful drugs for you if you bring him the right ingredients, or you may find an an abandoned lab and a recipe that lets you make previously useless meat much more nutritious. This is good, it gives the locations a unique character. But for some reason, it wasn't enough to capture me for long. (There also is the bobblehead quest, but that felt utterly artificial and contrived to me - what are these heads meant to represent in the gameworld anyway, and how can finding a bobblehead make me stronger?)

But anyway, as I said, I can see why players might like Fallout 3. It's not a failed game imho, it just was the least enjoyable Bethesda game I played so far. And since it cements the move from RPGs with extreme attention to detail and storytelling to RPG/Action hybrids with simpler stories and characters, less focus and content, and more focus on presentation, I see it as a further step backwards rather than a progress.


It is. I probably shouldn't praise it too much, as it does have it faults too - the presentation hasn't aged well, the AD&D ruleset was never very well-suited for story-centered RPGs, and some parts of the game never worked (ranged combat for instance). But the thing is, Planescape's unique story, interesting characters, and huge attention to detail outweigh these shortcomings effortlessly. Planescape is one of the games that could never have been made by a company that's focused on selling the most games and attracting the widest audience, economically the whole undertaking was sheer madness from start to finish. But it's one of the very few games which outgrew the limitations of being a mass entertainment product, and demonstrates that games can be a form of art.
 
I like the post-apocalyptic setting actually, that never bothered me much. To be honest, I never considered Fallout 3 to be a true RPG in any sense of the word. It's more of a FPS/RPG/open world hybrid thing. But whatever you label it, I like it. :goodjob:

Maybe I should check out Morrowind too.

Wasteland was awesome, too. Released in 1988, Wasteland is often given credit to inspiring Fallout, actually.
 
I like the post-apocalyptic setting actually, that never bothered me much.
Oh, I like it too. :) "post-apocalyptical Washington DC" just leaves less room for variety than a setting like "strange fantasy subcontinent with several thousand years of history buried underneath" does, and it shows after a while ... at least it did for me.

Maybe I should check out Morrowind too.

If you do, ask in the official forum for essential mods first. I usually don't recommend using many mods for the first playthrough of any game, but Morrowind has many very good ones which fix bugs, improve graphics, or add greatly to the atmosphere. :)
 
Planescape sounds incredible though.
It doesn't just sound incredible, Planescape IS incredible. IMHO, greatest video game story ever. Honestly, hands down, no competition (again, just IMHO). Not just the main "plot", but the writing itself -- beautiful.

As a small aside, it's interestingly one of the very few games where you're genuinely rewarded for being a smart character rather than a powerful character. :goodjob: (Explanation/tip: Characters with high wisdom and intelligence statistics get more dialogue options from being intuitive and knowledged, and consequently that opens up more story text and a far deeper understanding of the characters... one you won't get if you just hack and slashed your way through the game with high strength, etc. stats.)
 
From the first moment, it's clear that securing the water supply is the "good" thing to do. Your father is a cardboard cliché "good" character if there ever was one, and while I hope that the Enclave may be more than a bunch of misled militaristic autocrats, I kind of fear that they are just the "evil" counterparts to your father's "good" intentions. It is utterly boring. It doesn't give my mind anything to do. Everything is laid out clear before me as if I'm just following instructions. Do you want to be the good guy, follow plan A. Do you want to be the bad guy, follow plan B. Yay for choices. Yawn.

It seems the Fallout community is divided for this reason.
Many of the second-generation Fallout-fans do not understand New Vegas because it is supposed to move closer to the roots of Fallout. The old Fallout community never really accepted Bethesdas version of Fallout that is the third game.

In Vegas, you do not know exactly what consequences your actions will have. There is a much deeper dialogue, more freedom of choice, more interesting plot but the map is smaller. In my eyes, I do not mind the least that you have less empty buildings. In New Vegas, I simply spend more times in those that I visit because there is actually something there. The locations tell their own stories, there are far less buildings whose only function is to house critters you can kill. In Vegas, there is a history to most things you encounter and things are not black or white.

Vegas is to me more of an RPG than Fallout 3 is. That, and being much more closer to the originals.
 
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