Awilder's 2nd Deity Game (Mansa/fractal/standard)

To answer your questions, (1) no. Monty has high attack courage so he is much more likely to suicide troops before completely bombarding the city defenses to 0. (2) Your choice. I'd take peace since your main army is out of position right now. (3) He may have gone for a dagger script, although that's pretty unlikely in the medieval/renaissance era. Then again, deity AI do weird weird things.
 
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I finally see why I know the AIs on the other landmass. Actually, I'm still confused, bc I wouldn't think I could see WBs from HC and/or HRE from here. Also, I'm connected to their resource trade routes. Anyone care to explain?

Their ships might be sailing through their edges of border and saw yours, and thus made contacts.

For resource trade network, since you are connecting by coastal (the top left corner of the score board) and either (or both) side has sailing.


May any players spot any error, correction is appreciated.
 
Image tags are working, but uploading files isn't working.

You can upload files through sites like MediaFire though and link it for your save.
 
OK so we left off with two good things: capping hannibal, and winning lib on 1010AD (not by much! see below); and one bad thing: monte declared on us!

As I mentioned, even if I revolted to nationhood, I could only draft axemen, so I made this trade
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Music is to head to cuirassiers ASAP. I'm pretty sure the only way I can get Monte off me is to get some offense going.

Then I revolt to nationhood, slavery, and FR as planned. I thought about trying to stay in one of caste/bureau for a long while, but I ultimately decided it would be best to defend my border cities like this:
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aggressively. I know I'll lose at least one where he sends his SOD, but I don't want to give him any free war success against me. My other rule for defense was never to upgrade units (like my skirmisher above). I needed all my gold to deficit tech to Mili Trad.

I thought I might as well tell Hannibal to attack somewhere:
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but he basically never sent any troops :(

Here is a trade which gives an indication of how close I was to losing lib:
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Note how close I am to GP! He wouldn't give anything more than his gold.
Unfortunately this put him in WFYABTA, but I need to do anything I can to shave off turns to MT.

Meanwhile, up where my stack of 21 phants and 1 pult is, I keep using the 2 movement general to check on things in Teotihuacan:
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surprisingly, Monte's stack is still here from the Hannibal war. This gave me hope that Hannibal was the real target, but it wasn't to be. It seems like my stack was creating a diversion that kept these guys from heading to my territory though, which wasn't a bad thing at all!

Another trade with the ol' lapdog:
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Engineering was crucial for the extra movement point. Also, a possible theocracy revolt when I get the cuirs pumping could be good.

I keep whipping units and drafting in the most exposed cities. Despite my best efforts, after the first true concentrated SOD shows up and takes chicago:
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I was happy to get this close to MT before any losses. One thing that was questionable: I whipped walls in chicago, but he had several trebs, so at best I made him bombard for one more turn. I probably should have whipped another LB instead if possible (I think a musket would have cost too much, and I was below drafting size).

Sure enough, that stack came mainly from Teotihuacan:
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I had been pillaging some stuff for gold in the meantime, which you can see from this screenshot.

I debated for a while, and ultimately decided to take this city. Those LBs with walls+castle (100% cultural defense!) were more brutal than I expected, but I still got it:
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I lost something like 10-15 phants, and I think he had 3 LBs and an axeman and 2 knights or some such in the city. This ended up being diversionary as well, because I was forced to abandon the city a few turns later.

Also note that I told Hannibal to research chemistry. I think astronomy would have been better here.

Meanwhile I have been aggressively whipping out a cuirassier army. Even with deity AI bonuses, I hope that Monte will have trouble keeping up with a 16 city empire. I have two smallish stacks, one of which is facing off against his stack in Chicago:
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which has been a stalemate so far. I was pretty desperate at this point--for a while I couldn't see how long the list of guys there was (how do you fix the enemy stack display so it doesn't fly off the top of the screen??? That drives me crazy!) and I assumed he was about to do a massive upgrade into cuirassiers (note that Monte is only a couple turns from gunpowder himself, and already got MT, so I really had a sense of urgency here). On top of that, my empire was getting pretty whipped-down and sad:

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Note the city sizes! On the upside, my other stack starts going on the offensive:
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This was a very easy take--only 3 defenders there or so.


After sending several more cuirassiers up to Chicago (my one fallen city), and bashing them into at worst veteran knights I was able to take back the city:
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It was effectively an open field battle, since there were no cultural defenses up yet. The bad news here: Monte would still not talk. The good: I have a power advantage on him, and more than that, look at his city garrisons!

I have noticed this about warmongers--they seem to have huge mobile armies comparatively, but much smaller garrisons. So if you can survive the initial onslaught in a war, you can sometimes just roll over them afterward. That is just what I started to do:
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I took city after city with garrisons like 1 jaguar, 1axe, 1pikeman, and soon enough:
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:D He certainly has a lot to cry about, cause it's not gonna happen. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel here, and it's a world without the crazy in the headdress. Soon after he offers capitulation, I arrive at the capital.
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This battle was pretty bloody, but I took the city nonetheless.

The cost was a few more whips, but the benefit was this last stand
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The spy couldn't do anything cause he had just moved, but I had already used up most of my EP from a revolt for a city on a hill earlier. I took the city with a couple more irrelevant (pretty much) losses. I now have the continent to myself :yeah: This turnset seemed like an eternity, but it was really only 27 turns since monte DOWed me. Just glad he's wiped out. My losses in the 3 wars total to 40 phants, 21 catas, 19 cuirs, 9 muskets, and a smattering of other guys. What with all the whips, I really need to go wash some blood off my hands...

Here is land and tech status:

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OK, so I have almost twice the cities of anyone else, so I think we can be pretty confident in a win here. One thing to notice is that no one has even RP yet, let alone rifling! I think probably the best course of action is to tech to rifling while I have hannibal tech astro, build a fleet while shuttling over Cavs, and declare on probably HRE/HC.

I'm a bit worried about
-izzy is in GA and has quadruple my GNP right now
-someone (prob izzy) has almost triple my power
-the diplo situation sucks
-both HRE and Spain have been in WHEOOHRN for like 1k years, and they both have astro now.

I think it should be OK for a cav domination win, just a little nerve-wracking (gettin' used to deity). I have only 35% land area now but I think I should go above 50% when I come out of revolt. The biggest potential road block could be machine guns, which stop cavs cold, but ppl are at least 2 techs away, and will probably go democracy, SP and such first.

Any comments/questions/tips? (can't attach save atm)
 
I have to say that that was one of the most awesome wars I've seen, the switch from defense to offense and countering massive diety stacks was pretty cool! How confident are you that you'll be able to build all the ships as well as a big enough army to take down the AI before they get rifles or even worse, Machine guns. Have you considered waiting till industrialism for naval support+tanks+ marines+bombers later on? I'm sure your land can get you there pretty quick and it's tough to counter that...
 
@BB

Thanks for the shout out teammie! :) I'm not very confident get cavs in time at all, but the thing is I'm worried about getting declared on soon by one or both of HRE and spain anyway. My thought was to tech rifling for that reason anyway, and then might as well try to close the game asap before things get out of hand. Also, rather than have my whole army on one fleet, I thought I'd have a few ships start shuttling guys across the ocean, since it's a really short journey in places, and attack HRE from spain or vice versa. That should save a bit on time and hammers.

One thing I just noticed was that for once I'm actually short on pop as well as land, cause of all the whipping. So if I try to whip out a cav army/navy as well, it might take a while to grow back to dom threshold. I gotta be careful there.
 
OK so I continued on with the plan for teching to rifles, spamming cavs and trying to take enough land on the other continent to get me domination.

I teched to RP, which was great by itself, as I had been replacing several mines with windmills and putting some watermills down. I was the first there, and I put a turn in chemistry to get it from Hannibal:

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This was for the extra workshop hammer.
Meanwhile I start spotting privateers around. They clearly belong to Isabella, so no hope of her killing it. Fortunately, she decided not to start pillaging my seafood. And I got some galleons and frigates soon enough to put a stop to it.

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Before sinking any serious beakers into rifling, I check on HC's defenses:

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Not so intimidating, so I keep on target.

As Monte's cities come out of revolt, I elect to let them starve a turn while running caste artists for a border pop, rather than whipping something like a library.

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Monte surprisingly had some goodies in his cities, despite being at war for most of the game. The last city I took has a 22 gold hindu shrine and a bank, which is quite a big help.

After rifling comes in (it took a damn long time, cause that GM I never was able to pop because of Monte declaring in 1010AD finally came out, but he was a scientist! All from a few GPP overflow from the previous pop. grrr) I trade for astro.

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I whip out one galleon from each border city, which should be more than enough to shuttle troops across the ocean. I was hoping not to need anything more troop-wise, but my monopoly on rifling was not to last. After Hannibal got it, he traded it to izzy, which is not a big deal. But then, HRE wanted in on the game:

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So he got it 5 turns after me. It's not a great idea to hit protective rifles with cavs unsupported, so I went for physics:

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This wasn't a huge time setback anyway, bc it took a huge amount of time to pay to upgrade my cuir army to cavs and then maneuver them to HRE's border via Spain (needed that GM big time :()

Fortunately after rifling, HRE finally settled into teching random backfill like nationalism, (Hanny traded him MT then :mad:), const, demo, etc. He didn't beeline railroad or AL which is all I care about.

4 turns later I'm ready to declare with a stack of 40+ cavs and 15 more a couple turns away.

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I aim for HC's cities mostly since he is not protective. I really should've waited even a couple more turns to get EP on HC (forgot I was concentrating only on HRE, not his vassal), but I just airshipped and rammed cavs into Cori without the benefit of a city revolt.

Note that Izzy is in WHEOOHRN mode. I figured she was after HRE, bc she has some stacks hanging around his borders, and ships are nowhere to be seen around mine. She just went out of it a few turns later with no declaration. Guess whoever it was passed the power check.

I took the city with a few losses and marched on south.

Oh, and another thing you can see is that I have some airships posted in Spanish cities. I didn't put it together that if you have air support in a neutral city, the enemy can just march through and kill it no problem. At least it served as a diversion. Poor dirigible pilot, just sitting there having a sandwich with his Spanish buds, only to get murdered by an HRE cavalry while the Spaniards just watch.

Next turn I make a trade w that will really save me some money, and unhappiness for a bit (Hanny is in emancipation)

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Next up is a HRE city that is amazingly not on a hill, despite all the hills around it. I revolt this one:

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I take it but only have one guy available to move in, so I let HRE retake it. Then I revolt it again the next turn and move my whole army in. And prepare for the return onslaught yet again, which is pretty heated:

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Enemies on all sides!

I continue Southwest for HC's cities:

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I probably should have just headed for the HRE cities to get more landtiles, but I was afraid of getting flanked by HC units and not having adequate garrisons.

Even with all the rifles, cavs+airships+city revolts carried the day:

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I took HC's cap which had many a wonder, including TGLH (I still don't have corporation, woot!)

And then the last city on the peninsula:

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At this point my troops are spread pretty thin, and I've added some 40 cavalry losses to my running total, so I need a breather:

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The plan is to redeclare in 10 turns. I still have around 30 cavs on HRE borders, and I hope I can bring another 40 or so by the end of the 10 turns (I have over 30 cities now!) I lost research vision on HRE, but he doesn't have steel or steam power so he is two techs away from public enemies number 1 and 2 (AL and Railroad).

Here are the state of the world pics:

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I seem to have lost my tech picture, but basically Spain has run away with it and is marching around with artillery and SAM infantry stacks, while I wallow in last place tech-wise. That doesn't really matter though, because I can see the finish line!

Top priority is to keep Izzy off my back. If she backstabs me I'm in for a hell of a time. So I will do whatever I can (gift a city, switch to buddhism, fake defensive pact?, ...) to get her to pleased so I can beg and then get on with the HRE war. I think if I take his last 7 cities on the continent I should be over the dom limit. It sure is tough to stamp out deity AIs... what a bloody game!

My plan for the HRE war is to have a cavalry/spy/airship army head in from the north, while another stack with frigate bombardment support comes in from the south. I am just praying he doesn't get machine guns or infantry in the meantime, which would mean a further detour to flight/radio.
 
Can you get to domination before Izzy gets to culture?

Great game so far btw! What is your BPT at 100%?
 
Oooh you are kicking some butt now! ^_^ Way to go!
 
If I remember correctly cavs are actually not that bad against infantries if you somehow weaken the infantries.
I had occasionally some problems with AI's cavs hurting my infantry defense.
And SAM infantry has lower base strength (never figured out why AI thinks that is so good upgrade from base infantry).
 
@cbucks

thanks! I don't think she's gonna go culture. You can see in the VC shot at the very end of the last post that she has built apollo, and is 100+ turns away from legendary in her top 3 cities. I think AI VCs only really come into play in the late 1700s or so, should be ok for that.

@vranasm

hmm a little foreshadowing:)
 
First thing I did this round was basically two rounds of whipping cavalry. That gave me roughly another 50, which would probably serve my purposes. After that was done I teched bio in because it would help me grow my pop back over the dom limit, and bc Hannibal didn't have it.

After my teching was done, I started accrueing EP on burger king. Meanwhile switching to theocracy, buddhism, and selling Izzy bio was enough to set this up:
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She accepted. I probably could've waited a couple of turns to do it but I guess I was paranoid. Once my EP come back up to size on HRE, I get some baaad news:

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He's teching AL, and going to get it the turn before I declare war. 1 turn slow down would be huge here, so I could take 2-3 cities out of 7 pre infantry, so I try this:

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I must've tried to switch his civics 6 times (each of which supposedly had a 35% success rate), but all the spies failed. So he got to infantry :(
I figured I'd need yet another round of whips then. This time it was cannons. I could've waited to tech artillery but I didn't bother.
1650 I declare war. I can only move troops that turn, but the next, the fight begins:

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Predictably, those battles were bloody as all get out. The only problem that creates for me is war unhappiness back home. I seem to remember reading somewhere that war unhappiness is tied to losses, anyone know the formulae? At one point I had +17 war +8 emancipation unhappiness in one city. I did yet another round of whips for theaters and sometimes colisseums.

I don't remember what this next pic is supposed to show :p

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Maybe me continuing to cart over cannons for the last 4 cities, or maybe HRE harassing me with frigates everywhere. I'm sure he sunk a fair number of loaded galleons, but I wasn't really paying close attention. I tried to have galleons escorted by empty ones at least.

A couple of turns later I'm ready for another take:

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this time it went: revolt, airships, cannon suicides, then take with cavs. Much more gentle on the cavs, but actually the cannons were not as effective as I had hoped they'd be. Still, they are cheaper than cavs on a 1-1 basis, and they do inflict some more damage when they die, so I'm still getting a hammer benefit.

Soon after, another take up north. This one with no cannon support, so I only get revolt + airships.

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And another attack back south, with some cannons. My frigates at this point have all been sunk, so I need to revolt everything. Spies were whipped every turn in the former HC cities for a while.

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Spain goes out of WHEOOHRN again while this is happening (I believe she never went to war the entire game, but she must've spent a good 100 turns in WHEOOHRN :crazyeye:)
I take the opportunity to beg another 1 gold per turn from her.

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And now, a fight with a decent number of infantry. Fortunately this time I have cannons in spades.

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Revolt as usual, and then boom.
And finally the last city on the continent!!

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same deal: revolt, airship, cannon, cavs.

Hooray!! wait... what's that you say? Ionly have 62.4% of land, which is 1.6% SHORT!?!? :mad::mad::mad:

I must confess I kind of lost focus at this point. I should have again taken peace, whipped another wooden navy and some more cavs, and sailed over to HRE's expansion island which would have been more than enough (I have all the time in the world now, cause HRE's tech rate is essentially zero). The wind was just out of my sails, what can I say. I do half-heartedly invade, but I only land enough guys to take one city:

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I was hoping he would just cap after that (HC had switch from being his vassal to Izzy's so he was available). But, and this is a note for future reference, war success is not cumulative, so he wouldn't cap to me after I took only one city (he didn't remeber the 8 previous city captures...)

I am grumbling now about having to rebuild my navy, but then Izzy saves my sanity by building the UN. I take the easy way out:

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Those last 25ish turns were pretty frustrating. I really should have just taken a break when I saw that I wouldn't get enough land from HRE on the main continent, and then carefully played to get his island much faster. I don't really care about finish date tbh, though, and Izzy was still happy with me.

Here are some end of game shots:

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Looks like deity is somewhat more forgiving on score decay than imm.

Hope you guys liked the game! I definitely enjoyed the first half anyway. There were many points in the game where I wasn't sure if a huge stack of Monte's knights or American axemen were just out of sight ready to stop me dead, which was exciting.
 
postscript:

Here are some things I learned this game that I'll have to keep in mind:
-vassal trade routes don't count as foreign trade routes. nice to know when considering mercantilism
-I typically like to get past the threshold where it's better not to whip because a city has enough production anyway, but a huge empire can whip a huge army well below this threshold.
-given numbers and support, phants can take LBs (I knew this in theory already), and cavs can take infantry (need an assload for this, just take a look at my losses this game)

It probably would have been smarter and taken a whole lot less RL time to tech to space once I owned my own continent. It may have even taken fewer in game turns, since it's plausible I could have reached space before 1818AD.

Like I said, very fun game for the most part. Thanks for reading!

Anyone want another one? Anyone interested in making me a map? I will play the next one without BAT, just BUG/BULL
 
thanks for great read! and congratz on your win, very impressive.

And now you all call me visionary! You actually got to fight those infantries with cavs, haha :)!
 
@awilder

Congratulations on your victory, it's a great game!

Nice combo of cavs+cannons+airships VS infantries, really learning a lot from yours. Thanks :)

BTW was there a reason that hindered you from building Frigates to bombard coastal cities?
 
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