Great Wall of China

[Zuizgond]

Maybe if they cost 0 charge to build (but with long building time), they could be worth building.

 

[Lord_Azazel]

Ahh, thanks. Yeah, some things in the UI is quite hard to notice. The whole city screen seems very unintuitive to me

 

[Plus Ultra]

I have to say, the way the AI builds the great wall makes me cringe.

Just played the first game with China on the roster... my, what a mess..

 

[criZp]

And it ends up looking kind of silly.

You recognize that you can remove the wall improvement?

I think archers with that fort defense promotion should benefit from it on great wall since it works like a fort, it should be possible to build anywhere and not just right on the border, and it should be possible to build the wall in wood tiles like in this screenshot:

 

[Libermmucist]

You recognize that you can remove the wall improvement?

I do, yes, and the Great Wall sure can look fancier like in your pic! China in my screenshot was an AI.

 

[Nefelia]

I haven't tried China yet (been playing with random leaders), but the description of the Great Wall does not particularly impress me. I certainly do not need a fort in every tile, especially since my preferred strategy is to take my army to the enemy, rather than have them get close enough to pillage my territory.

Just how good is the +gold bonus? Does it increase from adjacent Great Walls?

 

[criZp]

I haven't tried China yet (been playing with random leaders), but the description of the Great Wall does not particularly impress me. I certainly do not need a fort in every tile, especially since my preferred strategy is to take my army to the enemy, rather than have them get close enough to pillage my territory.

Just how good is the +gold bonus? Does it increase from adjacent Great Walls?

it gives +1 gold and culture after construction or something, for each adjacent wall

 

[theis81]

'd argue that this is one case where aesthetics should override historic

 

[Sascha77]

Sadly I feel the same about Egyptian sphinxes. I had hoped to have a landscape dotted with them. But I do not find them worth building.

In my single Egypt-game (first game I ever played in Civ VI), I had one Sphinx. I mean.. I did have plenty of wonders, including Petra which makes building Sphinxes more worthwhile. But the build-restrictions make the usefulness of the Sphinx a bit too "luck-based", especially when you consider their yield which is nice, but not sensational.

Besides: Perhaps the Sphinx should've been handled as a unique wonder (not a tile improvement), giving it a special, massive boost if you can manage to build it next to another *Egyptian* wonder like the Pyramids, the Pharos or the GL.

Come to think of it: How about special boosts for building "sets" of wonders? Like the Egyptian wonders, or the Greek ones (Temple of Artemis, Statue of Zeus, Oracle, Colossus)? Might be an idea for an expansion or a mod ...

S.

 

[steveg700]

I haven't tried China yet (been playing with random leaders), but the description of the Great Wall does not particularly impress me. I certainly do not need a fort in every tile, especially since my preferred strategy is to take my army to the enemy, rather than have them get close enough to pillage my territory.

Just how good is the +gold bonus? Does it increase from adjacent Great Walls?

it gives +1 gold and culture after construction or something, for each adjacent wall

Right. The culture comes as soon as you get the walls. The gold comes with Castles.

I don't think it or the sphinx are terrible in terms of yields, but logically I'd want walls on the rims of my city, and that's either time-consuming or expensive. Plus, with both housing and hammers at a premium in the early game, I feel like farms and mines are better uses of my builders. So, oddly, if I were to build the walls, it probably wouldn't be until the later game when my yields and housing have all been boosted and my territory has expanded fully.

My suggestion would be that the walls actually be buildable outside of your territory and either automatically add it to the city (assuming border adjaceny) or they make it very cheap to acquire in terms of gold or culture purchase.

 

[footslogger]

I played as China twice and didn't have a single occasion when building the wall seemed worth doing.

 

[mnf]

Don't be too trusting of the city governor, though.



Sorry for posting a Chinese interface, but you can still see clearly that the city governor is starving my city. With a food-production double emphasis, it prioritizes tiles that sum up to more of both, paying no attention to food, ignoring the 3f1p tile because there are so many 3p+ tiles available. Don't ask me why I built it there. It was an AI capital city that I captured.

You can see it's got +1 Amenities, 6/12 Housing, and it's simply not working enough food tiles. I was amazed. Maybe they didn't like my rule so the citizens decided to go on a hunger strike.

 

[criZp]

I played as China twice and didn't have a single occasion when building the wall seemed worth doing.

It's fun to build thought, when you can build it between mountain ranges to make these maginot lines

Does anyone know how much defense bonus you get from fortification? I havent actually figured.

 

[Ikael]

Ayup, the great wall's current implementation is messy, I really doubt that it is working as Firaxis intended. As for how it could get fixed, I think that the solution should be something along these lines:

- Allow the great wall to be built in no man's land as long as it is next to a border. This would give your early cities more room to breathe, and it would allow you to use the great wall not only in order to defend yourself, but to contain a protential treath (build it along enemy borders!).

- Make it impossible for the great wall to be built next to more than 2 adjacent great wall tiles in order to avoid cluttering

- Change culture / gold yields by giving adjacency bonuses for placing your great wall next to encampments or fortresses, so you buff great walls while also making them thematically accurate (!)

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Does the Wall have to be worked to get Tourism from the Culture (at Flight)? If not, just build lots of wall sections in the late game where your borders extend beyond the workable tiles of your cities.

 

[Victoria]

Played china quite a few times, never bothered after the first time because you cannot improve the hex for any use and there was plenty else to learn/do.
Maybe in a month or 2 I will revisit for just how useful they are later game.

My recommendation would be make them border a hex rather than occupy and limit that huge amount of area. Note sure anything else is currently border related so may mot be programmatically practical.

 

[Big J Money]

Building the wall is actually fun IMO, especially with the border restriction. That's what makes it. But yeah I still agree it's maybe not worth the work. I'm on Prince, so I can afford to screw around.

Actually... yeah, if all unique improvements gave a small bonus to all adjacent hexes instead of the hex they're built in, that could be badass and would fit with Civ VI's theme of planning out the puzzle of cities. They would be even better on desert and tundra. And if Firaxis ever made a coastal unique improvement, that would work very well, too.

 

[Solitude]

My first game was as China, figured the wall would be awesome but honestly i find it to be complete garbage. It´s just not optimal building/rebuilding stuff all the time just to have a wall around your empire.

Even though it´s not historically accurate i would like to see the Civ 5 version of "great wall" back. But this time it is coded so that it is always at the edge of your border. In Civ 5 it stopped working after two turns it felt like.

 

[UWHabs]

Haven't played it yet, but yeah, from the descriptions, sounds like it could use some changes. Maybe:
-Built along the edge of the border.
-Does not take a builder charge
-Does not destroy features/resources on tile, and another improvement or district can be built on the tile. However, if there's an improvement on the tile, the wall section is only 1/2 as effective. Also, any wall section that's no longer on your border would only be 1/2 as effective, and if you build an improvement on a wall tile that's not part of your "outside" border, the extra wall section would be cleared (so that if you want to develop your city, only the outer-most wall remains)
-Each turn you can only build along one border (so that each wall segment basically only acts as a defense from attack from one tile)
-Yield for it obviously would need to be adjusted to not be too OP.
-In this case, you could have an encampment on the same tile as a wall, and that should give a larger bonus
-Barbarians should not be able to cross a wall section

That way, yes, one builder could build the entire wall for your empire, but you're basically going to need to spend a couple turns per tile to build it, which might not be the best use of your builder's time.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I'd say
Build adjacent to your border
Uses a builder charge
claims the tile (or gives you a big ~50% discount for buying/culture acquiring that tile

(so sort of like Russia's Lavra bonus)