2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Farm Boy]

Boy did that song come out from the deeps. Like, you know you've heard it before, but the brain had forgotten. Airwolf, heheh.

 

[Takhisis]

Dammit Farmboy! You're making us all look old. I mean, we're already… 30? or older.

is 30 believable?

 

[Takhisis]

How long until Faux News comes up with a story on how much money Joe Biden expects to make by being president and its being debunked as being simply his salary and expenses plus his own pre-existing personal income and property?

What is at stake for Donald Trump? It’s certainly not just the election
By Comrade Arwa Mahdawi
The ‘brilliant’ businessman must repay more than $400m within four years. Next week’s vote could determine whether he can

Going bankrupt once is unfortunate. Going bankrupt twice looks like carelessness. Driving your companies into bankruptcy six times, however, as Donald Trump has done, makes you a brilliant businessman.

That is according to the US president, anyway. Trump, a self-described “king of debt”, is proud of his multiple business bankruptcies, boasting frequently about how he has “brilliantly” exploited corporate bankruptcy laws in order to wriggle out of his companies’ financial obligations. Time and time again, Trump has managed to make others – employees, investors and banks – pay for his failures. Trump, who has never declared personal bankruptcy, has been able to protect his own assets and move on to the next fiasco.

But is Teflon Don’s luck finally running out? With just days to go until the US election, Trump is facing a potentially crippling combination of financial stressors. His business empire has been hit hard by the pandemic; according to a recent report by the Washington Post, Trump’s golf clubs and hotels are practically empty. They were not doing that well before the pandemic: the New York Times’ investigation into Trump’s taxes last month found his businesses were losing money at a staggering rate. (Seriously, what kind of genius invests heavily in a dying sport such as golf?)

Then there is the fact that Trump is in the middle of a dispute with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) over a $72.9m tax refund he claimed in 2010; if the IRS rules against him, he may owe more than $100m. On top of all that, Trump has at least $400m in loans with repayments due in the next four years. In fact, that number may be optimistic: Forbes reckons he owes more than $1bn.

Can Trump afford to pay all his loans? Absolutely, he says. In a “town hall” meeting earlier this month, Trump claimed his business loans constitute a “tiny percentage” of his net worth. Of course, anything that comes out of that man’s mouth needs to be taken with several heaps of salt. The fact is, Trump’s finances are a riddle wrapped in a mystery hidden inside an enormous number of enigmatic shell companies and offshore bank accounts. Nobody knows exactly how much money the president has. While we know that he owes significant amounts to Deutsche Bank (at least $320m) and a real estate investment trust called Ladder Capital (at least $113m), it is not clear to whom else he owes money.

Much has been said about how, if Trump wins a second term, his debts represent a huge conflict of interest. However, we all know that Trump is not bothered by ethics. If he gets another four years, one imagines he will find it easy to pay off his loans. But what if he loses? Will banks be so eager to renegotiate the terms of their agreements with him? One reason Trump has been able to fail upwards is the value of his brand. Buildings with his name on them used to sell at a premium; a financial summary Trump issued in 2015 valued his “real estate licensing deal, brand and branded developments” at $3.3bn. In the past few years, however, Trump’s brand has taken a kicking. Indeed, his name has been stripped from a number of buildings because it has become a liability rather than an asset.

If Trump loses the election, there is a possibility he will lose everything. He could face numerous legal problems. There is a not-insignificant chance he may end up in jail. (Joe Biden has promised that, if he becomes president, he will not pardon Trump if he is convicted of any crimes.) If Trump does manage to avoid jail, he might not be able to escape his debts. The jig might finally be up. Sure, no one knows how much money Trump has, but it is clear that this is an election he can’t afford to lose.​

 

[Edmund Ironside]

A warmer wetter world might support more people.

It won't, it will support less.

So do you blame Obama and Biden for these deaths?

They believe it exists and made some attempts to combat it (also see Biden's presidential environmental policies 2020). Trump calls it a hoax and a Chinese conspiracy, do you believe him?

Does that mean Biden is not responsible for any deaths in a war he supported? Bush aint running for President, so the buck stops with the candidate who voted for the war.

Are people who voted for Bush and Biden to blame too?

As for global warming, I dont know that it will cost lives.

Don't know? We all know it will, or do you not care? Or are you just burying your head in the sand like Trump because it is an uncomfortable truth?

A warmer world means more habitat, water, and arable land. Global warming created civilization.

One happened over many many many many thousands of years. The other is happening in decades. Do you understand the significance of the difference between the two scenarios?

@Berzerker
The WHO say "Climatic changes already are estimated to cause over 150,000 deaths annually." Its only going to get worse.

Why are you ignoring these deaths? You always want to talk about deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan Do these deaths not matter? What about all the millions of deaths which will occur if we keep electing climate change deniers and anti-environmentalists?
What about the billions of people who could end up in areas too hot for human life? Do they not matter?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/05/world/global-warming-climate-niche-temperatures-intl-hnk/index.html

A warmer world means more habitat, water, and arable land.

It will also mean:
Temperatures Will Continue to Rise
Changes in Precipitation Patterns
More Droughts and Heat Waves
Hurricanes Will Become Stronger and More Intense
Sea Level Will Rise 1-8 feet by 2100
Arctic Likely to Become Ice-Free
https://climate.nasa.gov/effects/

@Berzerker Aside from the impact it will have on humans, it will also have a disastrous impact on the wildlife on this earth. They will not be able to adapt to these rapid changes. Are all the millions of species that will be wiped out not a concern for you?

More Than 250,000 People May Die Each Year Due to Climate Change. Does that not concern you?
https://www.livescience.com/64535-climate-change-health-deaths.html

We owe it to ourselves, our children, and grandchildren to stop global warming.

This US election could help to decide the battle against climate change.
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-en...XrLe85E-Y5wh3dL4thi2KXh1X19rr_Q_szDCHTZuYv9p0

Scientists say "Who occupies the White House for the next four years could play a critical role in the fight against dangerous climate change, experts say...Scientists studying climate change say that the re-election of Donald Trump could make it "impossible" to keep global temperatures in check...Joe Biden's climate plan, the scientists argue, would give the world a fighting chance."

@Berzerker Are you sure Trump is the lesser of 2 evils?

 

[Takhisis]

Comrade EdmundIronside, you're still taking Comrade Berzerker seriously?

 

[Edmund Ironside]

Comrade EdmundIronside, you're still taking Comrade Berzerker seriously?

I swore to myself that I would never argue with Climate Change deniers, as there is so much science already out there, that there is no way for me to change their mind. These people have fully fallen victim to confirmation bias. I'm not sure if Berzerker is a climate change denier, or just profoundly misunderstands how it works.

Either way "triggered environmentalist here!"

 

[Takhisis]

I'm not sure if Berzerker is a climate change denier, or just profoundly misunderstands how it works.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Photo: President says Kamala Harris shouldn’t be first female president as crowd chants Ivanka
Trump says plot to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer was ‘maybe a problem, maybe it wasn’t’
After right-wing plot to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer, president’s supporters chant ‘Lock her up!’

Donald Trump openly mocked Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer over a plot foiled by federal authorities to kidnap her, saying it was “my people” that saved her.

Spoiler :

“And we'll have to see if it's a problem, right? People are entitled to say, ‘Maybe it was a problem, maybe it wasn't,’” he said during a cold and rainy Tuesday campaign stop in Lansing, Michigan. "It was our people, my people, our people that helped her out.”

“And then she blamed me for it. ... I don't get it,” the president said, feigning surprise before asking the crowd about the Democratic chief executive of Michigan: “How did you put her there?”

Federal law enforcement officials took down a plot from a right-wing group to kidnap Ms Whitmer.

Right-leaning militias and other organisations, as well as normal Michiganders, have been frustrated with Ms Whitmer’s coronavirus policies, including ongoing restrictions, since early in the pandemic.

That came shortly before the president used Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden and the Michigan governor to criticise both of them.

He noted his general election rival is not ruling out another national lockdown if that is what he deems necessary to stop the coronavirus spreading again.

“You’re already locked down, I mean this state, we’ve got to get her going. I don’t know,” Mr Trump said of Ms Whitmer. “I don’t think she likes me too much.”

That prompted his loyalists to break into a now-familiar chant: “Lock her up!”

Mr Trump spoke before another large crowd at a regional airport in a key battleground state. It was another he won four years ago. But things look like an uphill climb with just seven days to go before Election Day: he trails Mr Biden there by 9.4 percentage points, according to RealClearPolitics’s average of a handful of polls in the state.

But the president seemed in a fighting and upbeat mood, teasing the media at several points.

“See, I don’t comment on that (the chant) because every time I make just a little bit of a nod, they say ‘The president led them on,’” he said to laughter. “No, I don’t have to lead you on, even a little nod they say, ‘The president said,’ right?”

Once again we are told that if a woman doesn't do as the men want then she should be punished.

 

[Edmund Ironside]

https://twitter.com/WakeUp2Politics/status/1321166602465890307



Literal insane idiocy. Late ads have the highest ability to move voters, and the GOP has more of its partisans to move, since Democrats have banked in a early vote lead. Florida is a state he actually won, that Republicans won in 2018 even as the rest of the nation moved left, and he has a shot at winning again.

But he is spending on Minnesota? A state he didn't win and Biden has a nearly 10 point polling lead-in. And Michigan, which he won by a fluke, and is rated the most likely state to flip from Red to Blue.

And Ohio. If he loses Ohio, he is already done.

The only smart state to spend on is Pennsylvania. So one of 4.

In 2016, the Trump team spent smartly on the tipping point states and overcome a slight fundraising deficit with smart spending and tons of earned media. Not Trump himself, he was asking to spend in New York.

In 2020 the Trump team wasted all their money, have scattershot spending with no real gameplan, and not targeted at the tipping point states, have a far greater money disadvantage, and most of their earned media is negative.

Agreed.
If Trump were to focus on 4 states it should be: Pennsylvania, Florida, Texas, and North Carolina. They are all close, and worth a lot of EC.

FiveThirtyEight only gives Trump a 2% chance of winning if he loses Pennsylvania (Biden has a 30% chance if he loses it).
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-joe-biden-toast-if-he-loses-pennsylvania/

Trump is determined to win in Michigan, but as mentioned, it tends to lean mildly to the left. Its loss in 2016 was related to the Dems taking it for granted, and Trumps campaign to suppress/deter black voters.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...35m-black-americans-to-deter-them-from-voting

Minnesota is just a vanity project. Either part of his determination to win the whole 'rustbelt' or determination to win a state that he failed to in 2016. If the latter is the case he is better focusing on Nevada, though even Nevada is a bit of a longshot judging by the polls.

 

[Drakle]

https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/1321138640794378242

NEW: Previously un-released documents show the government has paid $2.5 million to @realdonaldtrump's businesses. Far more than we knew.

Trump Org charged $7,700 for a dinner, $6,000 for floral arrangements…and $3 for POTUS’s own glass of water.

Here's video from the meeting where @realdonaldtrump's club charged taxpayers $3 for POTUS' own glass of water.

I wish I could tell you if it was tap, bottled, sparkling, or perhaps flecked with gold. But in the video, no water appears.

$2.5 million paid to Donald Trump's business, for the services that Donald Trump uses at his own businesses.

Anyway, I'm sure we will see people post about this constantly just like the 'laptop from hell' right? I mean more since this is actual money changing hands, instead of a deal where no money changed hands and there is zero proof Biden was involved.

 

[Gorbles]

It's a pretty sucky hitpiece. The report itself says nothing about the pandemic being over, just efforts to combat. "Ending the pandemic" in this context would be the goal - though it's a bad headline on their part. But mainly because it makes fodder for hitpieces. And the Ivanka quote is just that pretty text that all reports have, and isn't in the context of the pandemic.

Gods, I hate bad reporting. The hint we got from so many years ago, if something seems truly terrible, it's probably not but just spun that way. This is a report put out by bureaucrats, it's going to be pretty useful, if self-congratulatory.

Except that the release relates to accomplishments from Trump's first term in office, and explicitly includes a highlight of "ending the Covid-19 pandemic".

It doesn't seem like bad reporting to me. I'll agree that lumping Ivanka's quote is unhelpful, but I also think everyone's kinda forgotten about the literal examples of nepotism in this administration so it's good to have that highlighted. Not everyone as in you, just generally.

 

[Patine]

You have done this for over a year now @Patine and it shows you are as guilty of speaking for other's positions as you accuse others of doing to you. You know I largely agree with your bothsidesism, but there is just not a viable comparison on the damage done. From antifa v white nationalists to Dem Party v GOP. The scope of the damage, the amount of power wielded to destroy, and the willingness to be evil just does not have a comparison. For me to act like that the difference in horribleness is not important is not only ignorant it is malicious.

You do realize that, across the American political landscape of the past several decades, the Democratic Party of the United States has wielded just as much power and done as much damage, and been behind as much evil and crime by the state as the Republican Party of the United States, and that the remaining, hardcore, true militant White Supremacists, and any ideological Fascists or Nazis, in the U.S. have been reduced to fringe groups and are thus on par with Antifa nowadays, and both resort to thuggery to get their way. Just because you, and some others, have a warped, distorted, lopsided, binary, black-and-white, epic-battle-of-good-vs.-evil view of things where arbitrary mislabelling of people and denial of the crimes and excesses of those you support are everyday rhetoric, does not change REALITY, and does not change the way I think.

 

[H4run]

Dammit Farmboy! You're making us all look old. I mean, we're already… 30? or older.

is 30 believable?

Judging by his avatar, I think @farmboy is at most 17.

Spoiler :

Nice avatar, very friendly and harmless looking one

 

[Farm Boy]

I think Soviet Winnie the Pooh came out in the late 60s.

Still before me, but not by nearly that much. Flatterer.

is 30 believable?

Lets go with 30s? I don't have that long left on 'em.

 

[Patine]

What is your theory of politics Patine and Berserker? Lose for all time, and whine all the way? If we assume that your stated position is in good faith, and isn't just being shills for GOP talking points. If I thought that was the truth, I'd never pay attention to politics, instead of rage posting and copy-pasting GOP propaganda endlessly.

Just because you can't get your head around, in your solid, toxic Dualist view of the world that people will not mindlessly always choose "a side," in arbitrary, artificial, contrived, divisive, and especially "divide-and-conquer," choices, but recognize that supporting parties chalk full of nothing but criminals, traitors, crooks, murderers, torturer, liars, and violators of their citizens' rights - a la, both Duopoly parties - and protecting their membership from any criminal consequences for such actions is a stamp they can give a clear conscience does mean they are secretly a "shill," for whatever "side," you find displeasing. It's time you stopped this toxic ideology and baseless slander, personal attacks, and lies. I am NOT a binary thinker, nor do I think the great majority of politicians of the two Duopoly parties belong anywhere but long sentences in prison for high crimes, but that does NOT make me a, "Trump supporter," or a "shill for Trump," and they very idea it should is just ridiculous and right off the rails, as well as completely disingenuous, and anyone with any brains would be able to see that. Now, STOP the lies and false accusations! You know damned well that's all they are, as much as I do, so QUIT IT! The petty namecalling games are over! Time to think like an adult.

 

[H4run]

@Farm Boy

The cartoon looks quite contemporary and have a great coloring, never in my wildest dream I thought that (s)he was an old-school commies bear tricking children with cute face and balloons to indoctrinate them Marxist ideology!

 

[Drakle]

Just because you can't get your head around, in your solid, toxic Dualist view of the world that people will not mindlessly always choose "a side," in arbitrary, artificial, contrived, divisive, and especially "divide-and-conquer," choices, but recognize that supporting parties chalk full of nothing but criminals, traitors, crooks, murderers, torturer, liars, and violators of their citizens' rights - a la, both Duopoly parties - and protecting their membership from any criminal consequences for such actions is a stamp they can give a clear conscience does mean they are secretly a "shill," for whatever "side," you find displeasing. It's time you stopped this toxic ideology and baseless slander, personal attacks, and lies. I am NOT a binary thinker, nor do I think the great majority of politicians of the two Duopoly parties belong anywhere but long sentences in prison for high crimes, but that does NOT make me a, "Trump supporter," or a "shill for Trump," and they very idea it should is just ridiculous and right off the rails, as well as completely disingenuous, and anyone with any brains would be able to see that. Now, STOP the lies and false accusations! You know damned well that's all they are, as much as I do, so QUIT IT! The petty namecalling games are over! Time to think like an adult.

 

[Kyriakos]

Any estimates on what percentage will actually vote on election day?

 

[Patine]

Well, I have no further time for toxic Dualist-thinkers who cannot grasp how the world works outside of their deluded "Lord of the Rings," construct and demand everyone conforms to their warped and tunnel vision viewpoint or gets barraged with lies and false accusations. And anyone who takes your posts and viewpoints with any sense of credibility, even though you've proven it can't be trusted or believed at all by your own posts, will now they're willingly dealing with an unrepentant liar, whom every one of your posts now has to be reexamined for possible - even probable lies - and cannot expect no truth or perspective from you. But that obnoxious gif images shows your happy with that, and make no denial of it. Good-bye, and happy wallowing in your pit of deceit.

Moderator Action: ENOUGH. --LM

 

[Drakle]

Any estimates on what percentage will actually vote on election day?

Just one poll, so large grain of salt.

But about 40-41% of voters (depending on Registered vs likely voter screen)

Now it will vary state by state. Some states are almost entirely voted by mail/dropbox. While some heavily limit voting by mail and early voting.

Well, I have no further time for toxic Dualist-thinkers who cannot grasp how the world works outside of their deluded "Lord of the Rings," construct and demand everyone conforms to their warped and tunnel vision viewpoint or gets barraged with lies and false accusations. And anyone who takes your posts and viewpoints with any sense of credibility, even though you've proven it can't be trusted or believed at all by your own posts, will now they're willingly dealing with an unrepentant liar, whom every one of your posts now has to be reexamined for possible - even probable lies - and cannot expect no truth or perspective from you. But that obnoxious gif images shows your happy with that, and make no denial of it. Good-bye, and happy wallowing in your pit of deceit.

mkay

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Well, I have no further time for toxic Dualist-thinkers who cannot grasp how the world works outside of their deluded "Lord of the Rings," construct and demand everyone conforms to their warped and tunnel vision viewpoint or gets barraged with lies and false accusations. And anyone who takes your posts and viewpoints with any sense of credibility, even though you've proven it can't be trusted or believed at all by your own posts, will now they're willingly dealing with an unrepentant liar, whom every one of your posts now has to be reexamined for possible - even probable lies - and cannot expect no truth or perspective from you. But that obnoxious gif images shows your happy with that, and make no denial of it. Good-bye, and happy wallowing in your pit of deceit.

Irony 11 out of 10, would chuckle at this again.

Sincerely,
Ziggy Toxic Dualist-thinker Who Cannot Grasp How The World Works Outside Of My Deluded "Lord of the Things," Construct And Demand Everyone Conforms To My Warped And Tunnel Vision Viewpoint Stardust