Shadow Game: Immortal w/ Sitting Bull

[Fippy]

Yup that's it
All good cities are free of revolt risk, and she has only weak ones without food resources left.
She offers Murcia with the capitulation but no way

You can spread the remaining old units around in new cities now, Cahokia will be fine with just one.
And make some suggestions..who should be cuir-ed next

 

[Mr_Trotsky]

It’s interesting to me that you wouldn’t take Murcia. It gets you closer to domination and, while it’s a drag on the economy, that only really matters if more teching is required - which it likely isn’t.

 

[MrBungler]

All good cities are free of revolt risk

Sorry, can you be more specific about which cities to keep? Upthread, you said Madrid was a definite keeper. To my eyes, Teoi, Toledo, and Salamanca all look solid; Barcelona too honestly.

Is revolt risk the fist symbol and number after the city name?

who should be cuir-ed next

I see what you did there - independence is the disease, and Cuirs are the cure I would go Sal then Toku.

interesting to me that you wouldn’t take Murcia.

Also interested to know. Sampsa said earlier that it offered only iron. Guessing the lack of anything else (food, commerce, hammers) makes it fail the cost/benefit.

 

[Fippy]

Cities where another Civ has more accumulated than you (on the city square tile) can go back into revolt over and over.
So for example once you get control over a city and sort out builds & tiles, 2 turns later you might already be back in ~7 turns of having a useless city.

But revolts can only happen when a foreign city reaches your square with it's
You can see this in Toledo: 8.96% revolt chance.
Why? Cos it's in range of a Saladin city. And all citizens are still "on Izzy's side" (98% spanish).

Other captures have no revolt chance cos let's say this in a simple way: all foreign cities are too far away, their doesn't reach them.
You made sure of that by capturing everything close. If Izzy still had Santiago it would be in reach of Madrid, and so on.

 

[MrBungler]

Wow, almost 20 years with this game, and I've never moused over to see revolt risk Thanks for explaining everything in depth.

All good cities are free of revolt risk

So Toledo with revolt risk I should give back, all others keep

 

[Fippy]

Keep Toledo
You cannot attack your own vassal ofc, so taking her cities before accepting capitulation was important.
But we can attack Sal and sort out that problem

In some games there can be a runaway Civ, if Willy had 10+ cities and techs close to Rifling you should attack him before he gets them.
Here attacking Sal next should be fine, even if his protective longbows & muskets can cost you.
But attacking softer Willy - or taking care of Qin & Mansa - would also be nice.
Toku is backwards (newsflash ) and no danger at all, he can be last in any case.

One more thingy about revolts & removing culture pressure: it's no biggie if that happens in Toledo.
And if there are no really dangerous AIs and your army is already big you could ignore revolts completely (for example on Monarch).
Establishing more solid cities isn't wrong on Immortal thou. From now on we can prolly ignore it.

 

[Fippy]

It’s interesting to me that you wouldn’t take Murcia. It gets you closer to domination and, while it’s a drag on the economy, that only really matters if more teching is required - which it likely isn’t.

Often newer players (or those advancing in difficulty) keep bad cities, or they found cost inefficient ones.
I am in shadow game mode basically, on deity (or other games where victory isn't clear yet) taking Murcia could hurt.

 

[pigswill]

Leaving Toku till last means extra troop movement and thus later victory date but it would probably be easier.

 

[MrBungler]

Spoiler T164 - catching breath :

T163 cont - Izzy capitulates and gives Optics, 120g and 2gpt.
T164 - Toledo starving hard, scounting Sal and gathering Cuirs

Scouting Sal shows Gepid in the south with 3 LBows and 1 Sword, and i think an unknown city further south; The main mass of cities in the west begin with Baghdad with 1 LBow and 1 Sword; Medina with 4 LBows 2XBows and 1 Cat; and Mecca with 1 LBow, 1 Sword 1 Pike and 3 Cats; two more cities visible and i guess two more cities in the fog.

I'm thinking two stacks, one big to push west and one small to go south?

13 Cuirs in Barcelona at maybe 70% total health, 5 in Santiago near 100%, 4 in Madrid 100%, 2 in Toledo, and a few en route or scattered; but, no other units ready to garrison those cities.

 

[Fippy]

Taking his cities south and gifting them to Izzy helps with capitulations, so once you are ready with a stack there things can start
(making your vassals stronger avoids "we are doing fine on our own", they resist longer if there are soft AIs around..which is also why Mansa should be removed soon).

Pushing west isn't really needed right away, killing some units that come to you will do while you clear out south.
We are not in "new cities yay" mode anymore now.

 

[pigswill]

Is there a risk that gifting cities to Izzy will push her over 50% land/pop and enable to her to break free?

 

[Fippy]

I have only seen vassals break free in K-Mod, never in standard games.

 

[antimony]

Do the numbers for breaking free apply more for peace vassals vs. AIs that capitulated, then?

 

[MrBungler]

Spoiler T167 - Arabian knights :

T165 - whipping and moving units
T166 - stacks ready, one south for invasion, one west for repelling. Sal already had a small stack moving through my territory, Camel Archers, LBows, and settlers; smashed it with no losses. Moved invasion stack into postion.
T167 - Gepid fell no problem; gifted immediatly to Izzy through the pop-up, rather than through trade window; any difference?

Economy at an inflection point, soon tipping negative. Just noting.

 

[Fippy]

There are 2 longbows to clean up west of Toledo
Barcelona can use the healer from Madrid (needs no guard this turn, Seville has 2 old units..one can move into Madrid).
I would protect the single injured Cuir west (in Sals culture).

Teoi & Salamanca need no guards as well, can move some more units west.
You have strangely stopped some Cuirs under Salamanca with MPs still.

 

[MrBungler]

Spoiler T169 - hard day's knight :

T167 cont - followed all Fippy advice
T168 - Zhou falls with one loss; can cities with unrest not be gifted? Small Sal stack wiped in the W

strangely stopped Cuirs were me thinking the war with Sal would end after the southern cities fell, and so thinking more units weren't necessary; I see now this isn't the case, and that I'll need to push Sal harder before he'll capitulate; lesson learned

 

[Fippy]

Mansa brings down the global power average, so Sal says he's still doing fine.
Zhou has no spanish culture so Izzy isn't interested right now (but would be later prolly).

 

[MrBungler]

Spoiler T173 - overwhelming nature :

Moved on Sal with two stacks, forking Medina and Baghdad until T171 when I wiped out a weak stack of cats then advanced and one-two punched the two cities. Izzy accepted Zhou, will trade Guilds if I give her everything.

Economy is a thing, at rate of growth I think maybe 20-30 turns til my fund runs out; sacking cities pushes that back some.

 

[Fippy]

Sal capitulates
Izzy doesn't want Gunpowder for guilds, just paper & philo.

I recommend turning on Qin now, so you can finally take out Mansa quickly which should make all other AIs capitulate much faster.
Just move all Cuirs into that direction, no city guards are needed in Spain.
I would also give Sal his cities back.

 

[MrBungler]

Spoiler T180 - great walls afire :

Thru T177 - Capped Sal and gave his cities back, traded for Guilds, moved troops towards Qin. Interesting that Mansa just flipped to Toku's protection?
T178 - dow on Qin
T180 - capped Guangchou, aiming to fork Xiua and Beijing