Shadow Game: Immortal w/ Sitting Bull

[Fippy]

Good worker scouting
Looks like 5 of her units could attack Toledo, adjusting to that and moving 1 more Cuir in would be okay.
(we are trying to learn future habits..i know some things could be done different How did you like xp spreading with the last general?)

In Cahokia we can introduce another strategic option: giving a 2 cottage to another city and working the plains hill mine for +3 this turn (39/42).
Then find the "turn on avoid growth" button. When checked, Cahokia will not grow another size (and stop at 42/42).
Why can this be useful? Growing would mean more unhappy, and we delay that problem for 1 turn.
Ofc you could also remove more right away..but i want to show that trick

 

[MrBungler]

How did you like xp spreading

Worked well Still surprised and thrilled how deep the choices get in Civ4. I had no idea, before these shadow games.

 

[pigswill]

Maybe move cats back to the capital, they're useless as defenders but work fine as MP units. You get more from buro if you're working more tiles.

 

[MrBungler]

Spoiler T158 - for the good of all :

T157 cont - Moved another Cuir into Toledo, Cahokia gave cottage to MC and avoids growth
T158 - Izzy attacked the worker-scout but not Toledo

 

[Tecumseh1]

Thanks for doing this thread! I’m going to start your game and play along. I suck even though i have 300 hrs played. I opened the game recently and struggling with noble using better AI mod. The AI is much more aggressive than default and I even lost my 4th city to barbs temporarily

I’m going to step up to immortal and try this. I will learn and remember stuff faster that way

 

[Fippy]

Ready to move on
All Cuirs with full movement points should go on the floodplains 1w of her HA - including all in Toledo & injured ones.
That leaves only one behind from what i can see..promote him & keep in Toledo.
No danger west (used a worker scout again), but i would still move the 11 health guy from Seville in as second guard.

You didn't come up with that idea so i will spill it out now There are 4 units in Timbuktu, 3 can move into Cahokia.
Until they arrive i would keep avoid growth on and remove 3 more (mine + plains cottages).

 

[MrBungler]

keep avoid growth on and remove 3 more

thanks for trying to let me find solutions on my own question: if avoid growth is on, why remove ? Since it also removes and ?

 

[Fippy]

Cos you are already at 42/42 and any more than +0 would be wasted.
With avoid growth on, the current pop/size food bar keeps filling up but when it's full all extra disappears into open space (it's 100% lost)

The idea was that now more tiles can be worked (like mines), instead of green cottages for example.
What we really care about at this stage is Cuirs production anyways.

 

[MrBungler]

That's clear - I read 'remove 3 more (mine + plains cottages)' as I should remove mine and plains cottages; but now I see what you mean.

 

[Fippy]

Yup i see that was a bit unclear by me.

 

[MrBungler]

Spoiler T159 - in the favor of RNG :

T158 cont - followed Fippy's advice, moved Cuirs towards Madrid, reinforced Toledo, shuffled workers in Cahokia and sent units from Timbuktu
T159 - Saladin demanded I cancel deals with Mansa. I did, since Mansa is a vassal and I only have open borders, while I didn't want risk angering Sal yet with my hands full fighting Izzy. Thoughts on that decision? I moved units across the river to S of Madrid, and was blessed with incredible dice rolls; took Madrid with no units lost. Also remembered to not auto-pile units into capped city. Learning!

 

[Fippy]

That was great
As you push back her culture, Toledo isn't focused anymore and 2 guards should be enuf now.
I would put 3 into Madrid and keep others outside. Next turn another big stack towards Barcelona (Seville Cuirs can join then) and she should capitulate after that.
edit: i totally overlooked Santiago..could take it first, we prolly want both for revolt reasons later.

Regarding your question, i don't like giving in on stop trading with x demands.
Refusing doesn't result in plotting just -1 diplo. Which we really don't care about with Sal at this point

 

[MrBungler]

Spoiler T160 - desperate measures :

T160 - Cahokia poisoned, Izzy stack appears outside Seville (2HA, 2XBows, 1Elephant, 1Cat) - i hit them with my superfluous cats and swords, then mopped them up with Cuirs. Monty (GG) born. Seville starving and enraged; I whipped 5, ending the riots. Troops converging towards Santiago.

 

[Nick723]

Same tip as before - rather than being on the gold mine your main stack of cuirassiers should be 2SW of Santiago.

 

[MrBungler]

Same tip as before - rather than being on the gold mine your main stack of cuirassiers should be 2SW of Santiago.

to 'fork' Barcelona and Santiago, gotcha

 

[Fippy]

Madrid is very lightly defended (or actually injured guys rest there), i would move the medic cuir from Toledo in.
Nothing should happen at Toledo but your worker could look around just in case.

Getting Willy's 170g for paper is good, most AIs have that by now.
Could switch him into theocracy too (for Anarchy) and he doesn't get much from that deal

Qin has education so you could trade it with Mansa for guilds now (vassals are often being gifted techs anyways).
But we accepted "stop trading with our worst enemy" and Mansa won't talk, and fully learned why giving into such requests isn't good

 

[MrBungler]

we accepted "stop trading with our worst enemy"

yes 'we' did and a lesson is learned.

Spoiler T161 - roll the line :

T160 cont - scouted near Toledo with worker, moved 4th Cuir into Madrid, sold Paper to Willy
T161 - small spanish force approached Madrid and killed a Cuir there; wiped them out. Took Santiago with two losses and a withdrawal. Pacifying troops arrive in Cahokia, turned off "Avoid Growth" though poisoned well is still in effect. Moved 2 Cuirs from Seville to the front.

Planning to merge the two stacks E of Barcelona next turn.

 

[Fippy]

All good, badly injured cuirs can move into Santiago (and rest for the next war).
All under 6 strength i guess.

Should cancel deer to Toku (and sell him something else) for +1 health.

 

[MrBungler]

Spoiler T163 - shaka, when the walls fell :

T161 cont - Deer recovered, Fur to Toku for 9gpt.
T162 - moved units
163 - stout defence at Barcelona, 4 units lost, city capped.

Is that it for Izzy? Still the builder, I don't have an intuition for when and how to press peace; Fippy, you've talked about the importance of culture borders on cities we'll keep vs ones we'll give back, but I don't have a feel for which cities we'll want for ourselves.

 

[pigswill]

Is it worth building Hindu miss for cities you're keeping? Culture,1gpt w shrine, +2xp w theo.
Is it worth building LBs for MP duties freeing up cuirs?
Isabella is ready to capitulate. Take it and move on.