Haiti is here, Haiti isn't here.
- Thread starter Henri Christophe
- Start date
If we strictly respect Haiti's sovereignty then yes dropping off a cheque would be what we'd do.
If we are interested in actually trying to do some good, best to put it aside in a fund and make it conditional on things like the state existing.
It will still get looted by the powerful and well-connected, but hopefully then they will put their loot in investments inside the country as opposed to offshore.
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube (retired)
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 5,764
Realistically there is nothing we can do. The thing people don't realize is that the country isn't just ravaged by internal chaos. That internal chaos came at the back of several inane natural disasters which pretty much leveled the country and brought it to their knees. And those them self came at the back of generation upon generation of criminal governments who at their best and most kindest were only out there to loot and rob the country blind. And at their worst... well google Papa Doc.
About the only thing that could realistically "fix" Haiti at this point is if the UN staged an invasion and occupation of the country, used draconian measures to enforce order and bring the country into sanity killing anyone who opposes them while rebuilding it at astronomic cost to foreign aid and human lives and than maybe, just maybe in a century it would be a successful country. Well that or just depopulate the place by forced deportation, rebuild it from scratch and than slowly move the people back in while maintaining an UN backed violent dictatorship to maintain order until their society is ready to be set free. Things on that scale. But that sort of options are off the table and for very good reasons. Because you can't do good by doing evil.
About the only thing that could realistically "fix" Haiti at this point is if the UN staged an invasion and occupation of the country, used draconian measures to enforce order and bring the country into sanity killing anyone who opposes them while rebuilding it at astronomic cost to foreign aid and human lives and than maybe, just maybe in a century it would be a successful country. Well that or just depopulate the place by forced deportation, rebuild it from scratch and than slowly move the people back in while maintaining an UN backed violent dictatorship to maintain order until their society is ready to be set free. Things on that scale. But that sort of options are off the table and for very good reasons. Because you can't do good by doing evil.
Henri Christophe
L'empereur
France should pay loans to Haiti in order to all they do against Haiti.
US also should pay loans because invade Haiti in XX century.
US also should pay loans because invade Haiti in XX century.
Haiti was a full-on slave colony so European powers asking it for money to pay for their release is something that should be simply abolished, but the thing is: how do we solve the economic crisis and the fact that the state has no power and is effectively in a civil war?
Comrade Ceasefire
Simmer slowly
We?
China could help them out. Refurbish the harbors, employ the locals to build silos, houses, food silos, schools and hospitals.
Cuban medicos are needed to help the emergency cases and train locals.
America could supply more weapons to Ukraine and Israel.
Let's all pitch in.
Please, no. Here where we actually get them we find that more than half the people they send are not even qualified medically in general to begin with.
Comrade Ceasefire
Simmer slowly
Middle management failure.
Use the qualified ones, send back the unqualified, and ensure proper accreditation is requested, always checked and always supplied. (And don't take bribes.)
Comrade Ceasefire
Simmer slowly
Plains-Cow
Best Resource; Always Wins
Has anyone written a complaint? I hear those are always in vogue.
Narcotics are literally what keeps more than 50% of any western government's elite awake and functioning.Then don't take narcotics.
Henri Christophe
L'empereur
Of course you! US is also part of the problem and should be condement in Haya to pay loans to Haiti because US invade Haiti in XX century.
If China decide to help too, it would be a favor, not an obligations as it should be if US and France give loans to Haiti.
By the way, theses Northerns countries as US and France should pay loans to others countries they invaded not just Haiti.
And also, American should stop to supply weapons to Ukraine and Israel.
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
'Only God can change this place': Haitians see no end to spiralling violence
"Port-au-Prince is in panic mode," a friend in the Haitian capital texted me.Residents of Petionville, a wealthier area of of the city, are shaken after their most violent day so far in the country's spiralling security crisis.
More than a dozen bullet-ridden bodies lay in the street - the victims of the latest gang rampage.
As well as the early morning killing spree, the home of a judge was also attacked - a clear message to the country's elites vying for power.
All this in what is supposedly the safe part of town.
Unicef's executive director, Catherine Russell, has called the situation in Haiti "horrific" and likened the lawlessness to the post-apocalyptic film, Mad Max.
Certainly the latest violence in Port-au-Prince is a reminder, if any were needed, that Haiti remains closer to anarchy than stability.
- Running the gauntlet to flee Haiti gang territory
- The rise and fall of Haiti's Ariel Henry
- The gangsters and rebels jostling over power in Haiti
We visited the maternity ward of Cap Haitien's public hospital. Just a day old, Baby Woodley's first cries were the same as those of children born anywhere: for food and for comfort.
But as most children born there, she will grow up to find that such essentials are far from guaranteed in Haiti.
Lying in an adjacent bed, Markinson Joseph was recovering from giving birth two days ago to a baby boy. Through an interpreter, she told me that she would get her baby out of the country altogether if she got the chance.
"But me and my husband don't have the money to flee," she said.
Dr Mardoche Clervil, the hospital's obstetrician, showed us around dark and empty wards and said that the gangs' control of the roads in and out of Port-au-Prince was making it tough to find enough fuel to keep the lights on, or the ceiling fans whirring.
More importantly, it has also hampered efforts to bring in the drugs and equipment they need.
He said that pregnant women had travelled from Port-au-Prince to give birth in the relative safety of Cap-Haitien.
"As you can see we have enough beds and staff," he said, motioning to the team of nurses and interns behind him. "But quite often the patients just can't reach us, either because of their socio-economic problems or because of the violence."
For some, it has had terrible consequences.
Louisemanie was eight-and-a-half months pregnant when she came into hospital. By then, she had dangerously high blood pressure and lost the baby.
Preeclampsia is treatable had she been properly monitored or the baby been delivered early. Louisemanie was only too aware that her loss was avoidable.
"They've had me on drugs since early January but I've transferred between three different hospitals," she said, meaning her complicated pregnancy was ultimately left to chance.
Across the country, the humanitarian need is now critical and the aid response so far has been painfully slow.
The essential things of life - food, water and safe shelter - are increasingly hard to find for millions.
In Port-au-Prince, Farah Oxima and her nine children were forced from their home in a violent gang-controlled neighbourhood to another part of the city. They are just some of the more than 360,000 internally displaced people in the conflict.
As she filled up plastic jerry cans with water from a standpipe in the street, the 39-year-old admitted she was struggling to provide the food and water her young children needed.
"I don't know what to do, I'm watching the country collapse," she said.
To her, the idea that a transitional council can impose some form of order or security in the short-term seems completely impossible.
"Only God can change this place because from where I'm sitting I can't see where any other change is coming from."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-68602114
Klaus Hergersheimer
Emperor
anything else?
Comrade Ceasefire
Simmer slowly
I'm sure Henri can give you a very long shopping list.
I'll start with just one: The US should stop forcibly sterilizing Latinas (in particular) because they might become an economic burden.
Back to you, Henri.
Dominican Republic says will expel up to 10,000 Haitian migrants a week
The Dominican Republic says it plans to expel as many as 10,000 Haitian migrants per week, despite a longstanding call from the United Nations to end forced returns to Haiti amid a surge in gang violence there.
Homero Figueroa, a Dominican presidential spokesman, said on Wednesday that the “operation aims to reduce the excessive migrant populations detected in Dominican communities”.
Figueroa added that the expulsions to Haiti, which shares a border with the Dominican Republic on the Caribbean island of Hispaniola, would begin “immediately”.
The announcement comes just days after the UN reported that at least 3,661 people had been killed in Haiti in the first half of 2024 amid the “senseless” gang violence that has engulfed the country.
Haitian leaders warned last week that they are “nowhere near winning” the battle against the armed groups, which for months have been carrying out attacks and kidnappings across the capital of Port-au-Prince and in other parts of the country.
The violence has internally displaced more than 700,000 Haitians, according to UN figures, and nearly half of the population — more than 5.4 million people — also faces acute hunger.
Haitian citizens get off a truck as they are deported to the border between Haiti and the Dominican Republic on March 17 [Fran Afonso/Reuters]
The Dominican Republic says it plans to expel as many as 10,000 Haitian migrants per week, despite a longstanding call from the United Nations to end forced returns to Haiti amid a surge in gang violence there.
Homero Figueroa, a Dominican presidential spokesman, said on Wednesday that the “operation aims to reduce the excessive migrant populations detected in Dominican communities”.
Figueroa added that the expulsions to Haiti, which shares a border with the Dominican Republic on the Caribbean island of Hispaniola, would begin “immediately”.
The announcement comes just days after the UN reported that at least 3,661 people had been killed in Haiti in the first half of 2024 amid the “senseless” gang violence that has engulfed the country.
Haitian leaders warned last week that they are “nowhere near winning” the battle against the armed groups, which for months have been carrying out attacks and kidnappings across the capital of Port-au-Prince and in other parts of the country.
The violence has internally displaced more than 700,000 Haitians, according to UN figures, and nearly half of the population — more than 5.4 million people — also faces acute hunger.
Haitian citizens get off a truck as they are deported to the border between Haiti and the Dominican Republic on March 17 [Fran Afonso/Reuters]
They are only doing it now? What was it, they were waiting to see if a few more guns would make it better?
UN expands Haiti arms embargo to all types of weapons
The UN Security Council has voted unanimously to expand its arms embargo in Haiti because of grave concerns over extremely high levels of gang violence.
The embargo will extend to all types of arms and ammunition in the Caribbean country, which faces multiple challenges.
Robert Muggah estimated the biggest source of illegal firearms and ammunition is the United States
“Just over 50 percent of these were handguns and roughly 37 percent consisted of rifles,” he told Al Jazeera.
Often Haiti-bound weapons from the US are purchased by “straw men” – people who buy from licensed dealers but conceal they are for someone else.
A Kenya-led multinational force is trying to help the Haitian National Police combat gangs. It is no obvious that the soldiers are better armed than the gangs.
UN expands Haiti arms embargo to all types of weapons
The UN Security Council has voted unanimously to expand its arms embargo in Haiti because of grave concerns over extremely high levels of gang violence.
The embargo will extend to all types of arms and ammunition in the Caribbean country, which faces multiple challenges.
Robert Muggah estimated the biggest source of illegal firearms and ammunition is the United States
“Just over 50 percent of these were handguns and roughly 37 percent consisted of rifles,” he told Al Jazeera.
Often Haiti-bound weapons from the US are purchased by “straw men” – people who buy from licensed dealers but conceal they are for someone else.
A Kenya-led multinational force is trying to help the Haitian National Police combat gangs. It is no obvious that the soldiers are better armed than the gangs.
EnglishEdward
Deity
This explains a lot of things.
But pardon me, I will correct it.
Narcotics are literally what keeps more than 50% of any western government's elite delusional and malfunctioning.
Haiti’s gangs inflict ‘extreme brutality’ as casualties rise – UN report
An escalating gang war in Haiti killed or injured 1,745 people between July and September, according to a new United Nations human rights report, representing a more than 30 percent increase from the previous quarter.
1,223 people were killed and 522 injured as a result of gang violence and the fight against gangs, the UN said in its quarterly report. While this represents a 27 percent increase on the previous quarter, it’s 32 percent drop from the first three months of the year.
On top of the violence inflicted by gangs, Haitian law enforcement was also responsible for 669 casualties, according to the BINUH report. Most of those killed or injured were gang members, but around a quarter of the victims were not involved in the hostilities and were simply caught in the crossfire.
Police also summarily executed at least 96 people, including six children, while the public prosecutor for the southern coastal city of Miragoan, Jean Ernest Muscadin, carried out 10 extrajudicial executions, according to the report.
The violence was largely the responsibility of a swarm of gangs vying for power in the impoverished Caribbean nation, which is in the throes of a four-year political crisis, said the BINUH report.
The gang coalition, calling itself Viv Ansamn (Living Together) in Haitian Creole, controls or has a presence in 80 percent of the capital, Port-au-Prince.
Some of the bloodiest recent clashes have occurred in the La Saline shantytown, close to the capital’s main port. There, 238 residents were killed or wounded, “most of them inside their makeshift homes,” the report said.
Gangs also occupied the communities of Carrefour and Gressier in the outskirts of Port-au-Prince, using “extreme brutality to bring residents under their control”, said BINUH.
In one case, it said, a plainclothes policeman who gang members stopped in mid-August “was mutilated, then forced to eat parts of his body, before being burned alive.”
Sexual violence was also widespread, with 55 tracked cases of gang rape, though the report noted that such crimes are vastly underreported.
An escalating gang war in Haiti killed or injured 1,745 people between July and September, according to a new United Nations human rights report, representing a more than 30 percent increase from the previous quarter.
1,223 people were killed and 522 injured as a result of gang violence and the fight against gangs, the UN said in its quarterly report. While this represents a 27 percent increase on the previous quarter, it’s 32 percent drop from the first three months of the year.
On top of the violence inflicted by gangs, Haitian law enforcement was also responsible for 669 casualties, according to the BINUH report. Most of those killed or injured were gang members, but around a quarter of the victims were not involved in the hostilities and were simply caught in the crossfire.
Police also summarily executed at least 96 people, including six children, while the public prosecutor for the southern coastal city of Miragoan, Jean Ernest Muscadin, carried out 10 extrajudicial executions, according to the report.
The violence was largely the responsibility of a swarm of gangs vying for power in the impoverished Caribbean nation, which is in the throes of a four-year political crisis, said the BINUH report.
The gang coalition, calling itself Viv Ansamn (Living Together) in Haitian Creole, controls or has a presence in 80 percent of the capital, Port-au-Prince.
Some of the bloodiest recent clashes have occurred in the La Saline shantytown, close to the capital’s main port. There, 238 residents were killed or wounded, “most of them inside their makeshift homes,” the report said.
Gangs also occupied the communities of Carrefour and Gressier in the outskirts of Port-au-Prince, using “extreme brutality to bring residents under their control”, said BINUH.
In one case, it said, a plainclothes policeman who gang members stopped in mid-August “was mutilated, then forced to eat parts of his body, before being burned alive.”
Sexual violence was also widespread, with 55 tracked cases of gang rape, though the report noted that such crimes are vastly underreported.
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