Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

@Antmanbrooks

Question: What's the difference between a Cow Farm and an Indian Cow Farm?

Same goes for Goat farm and Babylonian Goat Farm etc...

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The cost of the unique civilizations are around half the price of a normal building.

Ex. Normal Cow Farm cost 90 while the Indian Cow farm cost 50.

Oh yeah, Shaman's Hut has an error in the CIV4BuildingsInfos file.

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Doh! I will fix in the next update (not the one below).

I had an idea for the Idol Shrine building but I'm not sure how it could be included, I'm sure it's just xml coding, but I'm struggling to figure out how to do it. Here's the idea anyway; Idolatry is considered a major sin in the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Islam and Christianity) so wouldn't it make sense if when your state religion is any of them, the idol shrine gives unhappiness. If you like the idea I wouldn't mind being told how to add it as I would like to include this in my own games.

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Yeah I was thinking along the same lines to make Pigs give for Islam or Judaism, but I never found a way for that to work. If I ever figure out a way then the idol shrine would be on the list too.

@strategyonly

I finished my update ahead of schedule! Yay! As always please delete the Hydro folder and Hydro.FPK before updating. Included are a bunch of crop related buildings I still have a lot to go in the future but I have most of the core ones. I also made the "Scavenging" tech icon for you. So please put that where its suppose to go so it can have its own unique icon. Let me know when you have downloaded the attachment. (See below)

*Attachment Removed*

Hydromancerx said:

@strategyonly

I finished my update ahead of schedule! Yay! As always please delete the Hydro folder and Hydro.FPK before updating. Included are a bunch of crop related buildings I still have a lot to go in the future but I have most of the core ones. I also made the "Scavenging" tech icon for you. So please put that where its suppose to go so it can have its own unique icon. Let me know when you have downloaded the attachment. (See below)

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Ok thx i got it, and now you can take a well deserved BREAK until after the New Year.

strategyonly said:

Ok thx i got it, and now you can take a well deserved BREAK until after the New Year.

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Thanks. Happy Holidays to you too!

I also still have my gears turning on what to do with the "City State" idea for Civ4. I would use a similar combo resource method where if you have 2 of the right resources in your city vicinity then you can research a wonder to build an embassy with a "City State" civilization. In doing so you gain access to their special buildings, units and promotions.

Tech Level
Ancient = Obsidian
Classical = Copper
Medieval = Iron
Renaissance = Sulphur
Industrial = Coal
Modern = Oil
Trans-Human = Uranium

Here is an idea example on how it could work ...

Apache Embassy
Req Resources: Sulphur AND Horses
Req Terrain: Desert

Special Units
- Apache Cavalry (Replaces Calvary)

Building
- Apache Cactus (+1 Food from Desert tiles)

Promotions
- Apache Raiders (200% More Gold from Pillaging)
- Apache Endurance (Cavalry get +1 Movement)

Obviously this kind of stuff should be adjusted but it would give a new level of game play if you could pick up new cultures into yours.

Hydromancerx said:

Thanks. Happy Holidays to you too!

I also still have my gears turning on what to do with the "City State" idea for Civ4. I would use a similar combo resource method where if you have 2 of the right resources in your city vicinity then you can research a wonder to build an embassy with a "City State" civilization. In doing so you gain access to their special buildings, units and promotions.

Tech Level
Ancient = Obsidian
Classical = Copper
Medieval = Iron
Renaissance = Sulphur
Industrial = Coal
Modern = Uranium

Click to expand...

Modern should be Oil, not Uranium. Other than that, I like the idea of City-States, especially after working on the AND Mega Civ Pack, with some of the Civs being relatively minor or noticing certain important cities are missing from city lists due to how Civs are fleshed out. The main issue I see, using the Apache example, unless it is a World Wonder/Project, there could be multiple "Apache Embassies" in civs across the globe since the requirement is Desert tile, Horse, and Sulphur within vicinity.

generalstaff said:

Modern should be Oil, not Uranium. Other than that, I like the idea of City-States, especially after working on the AND Mega Civ Pack, with some of the Civs being relatively minor or noticing certain important cities are missing from city lists due to how Civs are fleshed out. The main issue I see, using the Apache example, unless it is a World Wonder/Project, there could be multiple "Apache Embassies" in civs across the globe since the requirement is Desert tile, Horse, and Sulphur within vicinity.

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1. Oh good idea to have oil instead.
2. Yes it would be a World Wonder, thus only one would exist. I belie I stated that.
3. Also each resource would require it be in the city vicinity. This would mean sometimes on random maps some would not be possible since there may not be a sulphur resource next to a horse resource in the desert.

Antmanbrooks said:

Oh yeah, Shaman's Hut has an error in the CIV4BuildingsInfos file.

Spoiler :

<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_HUT_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
Should read...
<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_SHAMANS_HUT_PEDIA</Civilopedia>

Hope this helps a little.

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Hmm. This is not one of my buildings. Thus strategyonly will have to fix.

Hydromancerx said:

Hmm. This is not one of my buildings. Thus strategyonly will have to fix.

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Done.

strategyonly said:

Done.

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I think it's still bugged on my game? Did you use my example fix?

Oh and another thing I noticed when playtesting today, I had an AI city up in North America on the GEM map, the Iroquois. They had placed no less than 6 Deer which was massively unbalancing. They were in the process of stocking the entire northern forests with Deer! Is there a way to limit the number they can place in any given city?

@strategyonly

I have been trying to fix an early balance problem. Mainly since when I had us convert over the commerce to gold this made starting the game extremely hard since you basically have no science to start with (besides a worked tile). So I was playing around with 2 new buildings; "Native Language" and "Trade Language". The first gives a little bit of a science and culture boost to all cities and require the palace to be be built after discovering "Language" tech. The other gives a gold, science and culture bonus to all cities when you discover "Trade" tech and requires "Trade Language" building.

However how much science is what I am trying to work out. I would like to get the first part of the game moving without over powering the later game. In short I will try to post this mini update before your deadline (CST 12 noon, 22 Dec 2010). Just giving you a heads up in case you were planning on releasing the mod early.

Hydromancerx said:

@strategyonly

I have been trying to fix an early balance problem. Mainly since when I had us convert over the commerce to gold this made starting the game extremely hard since you basically have no science to start with (besides a worked tile). So I was playing around with 2 new buildings; "Native Language" and "Trade Language". The first gives a little bit of a science and culture boost to all cities and require the palace to be be built after discovering "Language" tech. The other gives a gold, science and culture bonus to all cities when you discover "Trade" tech and requires "Trade Language" building.

However how much science is what I am trying to work out. I would like to get the first part of the game moving without over powering the later game. In short I will try to post this mini update before your deadline (CST 12 noon, 22 Dec 2010). Just giving you a heads up in case you were planning on releasing the mod early.

Click to expand...

Yes science is a big problem, at first on snail it was taking 30+ turns for a tech at 100% science but by the time I got to ancient I was getting a tech every 3-6 turns on 60% science. Admittidly this was on warlord (I think) level and I had a couple of tribes from goody huts.

@strategyonly & Dancing Hoskuld

Ok I think I figured out a solution. I am going to not only be posting my 2 science related buildings soon but I would like strategyonly to adjust the following techs. Right now they are rather mixed up where some expensive techs lead to cheaper techs. This is most likely happened when we re-did the prehistoric tech tree. Here are my requests on how to better balance the tech costs ...

Nomadic Lifestyle = 5
Language = 5

Cave Dwelling = 10
Weaving = 10
Gathering = 10
Scavenging = 10
Cooperation = 10

Shelter Building = 15
Basketry = 15
Tracking = 15
Tool Making = 15
Stone Tools = 15
Herbalism = 15
Oral Tradition = 15

Fine-Edge Tools = 20
Trapping = 20
Flint Knapping = 20
Natural Pigments = 20
Prehistoric Music = 20
Prehistoric Dance = 20

Microlith = 25
Axe Making = 25
Spear Making = 25
Carving = 25
Ritualism = 25

Stone Building = 30
Wood Working = 30
Bone Working = 30
Fire Making = 30
Poison Crafting = 30
Cultural Identity = 30

Naturopathy = 40
Carpentry = 40
Trap Fishing = 40
Personal Adornment = 40
Sewing = 40
Slash & Burn = 40
Cooking = 40
Tattoos = 40
Tribalism = 40
Petroglyphs = 40

Boat Building = 50
Bead Making = 50
Hunting = 50
Warfare = 50
Shamanism = 50

Megalith Construction = 60
Spear Fishing = 60
Pottery = 60
Barter = 60
Tanning = 60
Canine Domestication = 60
Obsidian Weapons = 60
Chiefdom = 50
Ceremonial Burial = 60

Boat Fishing = 70
Slavery = 70
Megafauna Domestication = 70
Livestock Domestication = 70
Archery = 70
Mysticism = 70
Ancestor Worship = 70
Mining = 70

Sailing = 80
The Wheel = 80
Sedentary Lifestyle = 80
Elephant Riding = 80
Star Gazing = 80
Copper Working = 80

Naval Warfare = 90
Trade = 90
Apiculture = 90
Priesthood = 90
Polytheism = 90
Masonry = 90
Metal Casting = 90
Horseback Riding = 90

Ok this should give you a gradual increase in cost as you go down the tree that eventually merged into the other techs' cost amount. Please change these and then I will test with my buildings and adjust accordingly and then post it for you. Note if you cannot do it or are busy let me know.

Hydromancerx said:

@strategyonly & Dancing Hoskuld

Ok I think I figured out a solution. I am going to not only be posting my 2 science related buildings soon but I would like strategyonly to adjust the following techs. Right now they are rather mixed up where some expensive techs lead to cheaper techs. This is most likely happened when we re-did the prehistoric tech tree. Here are my requests on how to better balance the tech costs ...

Spoiler :

Nomadic Lifestyle = 5
Language = 5

Cave Dwelling = 10
Weaving = 10
Gathering = 10
Scavenging = 10
Cooperation = 10

Shelter Building = 15
Basketry = 15
Tracking = 15
Tool Making = 15
Stone Tools = 15
Herbalism = 15
Oral Tradition = 15

Fine-Edge Tools = 20
Trapping = 20
Flint Knapping = 20
Natural Pigments = 20
Prehistoric Music = 20
Prehistoric Dance = 20

Microlith = 25
Axe Making = 25
Spear Making = 25
Carving = 25
Ritualism = 25

Stone Building = 30
Wood Working = 30
Bone Working = 30
Fire Making = 30
Poison Crafting = 30
Cultural Identity = 30

Naturopathy = 40
Carpentry = 40
Trap Fishing = 40
Personal Adornment = 40
Sewing = 40
Slash & Burn = 40
Cooking = 40
Tattoos = 40
Tribalism = 40
Petroglyphs = 40

Boat Building = 50
Bead Making = 50
Hunting = 50
Warfare = 50
Shamanism = 50

Megalith Construction = 60
Spear Fishing = 60
Pottery = 60
Barter = 60
Tanning = 60
Canine Domestication = 60
Obsidian Weapons = 60
Chiefdom = 50
Ceremonial Burial = 60

Boat Fishing = 70
Slavery = 70
Megafauna Domestication = 70
Livestock Domestication = 70
Archery = 70
Mysticism = 70
Ancestor Worship = 70
Mining = 70

Sailing = 80
The Wheel = 80
Sedentary Lifestyle = 80
Elephant Riding = 80
Star Gazing = 80
Copper Working = 80

Naval Warfare = 90
Trade = 90
Apiculture = 90
Priesthood = 90
Polytheism = 90
Masonry = 90
Metal Casting = 90
Horseback Riding = 90

Ok this should give you a gradual increase in cost as you go down the tree that eventually merged into the other techs' cost amount. Please change these and then I will test with my buildings and adjust accordingly and then post it for you. Note if you cannot do it or are busy let me know.

Click to expand...

Done, thx for putting that kindly.

@strategyonly

Could I please get the tech tree file from you real quick so I can test my buildings before sending it to you? They are done right now but I don't want to have to upload them twice if I find out they are too powerful with the adjusted tech costs.

EDIT: Thanks for the file. It seems to be a lot more balanced now in my testing. These 2 buildings should help it as well. As always please delete the old before updating the new and let me know when you got the file. This will be my last update until after the holidays. However I will probably still be posting some brainstorming ideas in this thread. I can't wait for everyone to try out the Christmas version of this mod. I almost put Santa's Workshop as a building in the game but then decided not to. Perhaps this version you should include Christmas music for the title screen.

Happy Holidays everyone!

*Attachment Removed*

Antmanbrooks said:

...another thing I noticed when playtesting today, I had an AI city up in North America on the GEM map, the Iroquois. They had placed no less than 6 Deer which was massively unbalancing. They were in the process of stocking the entire northern forests with Deer! Is there a way to limit the number they can place in any given city?

Click to expand...

Any ideas on this? I was thinking maybe limiting animal placement to one additional resource per city otherwise the longer the game goes on the more unbalancing this will become.

*Image Removed* because it was massive?!?

Hydromancerx said:

EDIT: Thanks for the file. It seems to be a lot more balanced now in my testing. These 2 buildings should help it as well. As always please delete the old before updating the new and let me know when you got the file. This will be my last update until after the holidays. However I will probably still be posting some brainstorming ideas in this thread. I can't wait for everyone to try out the Christmas version of this mod. I almost put Santa's Workshop as a building in the game but then decided not to. Perhaps this version you should include Christmas music for the title screen. nah, then you'd have it for a month or sooo, so i am putting in something impossible.

Happy Holidays everyone!

Click to expand...

Thx will put your changes in now, got it. btw see attachment, i think that the yellow a welll, orange a mayyybe, and the red most definitely change the cost. This is only on Marathon speed!! Your thoughts

Antmanbrooks said:

Any ideas on this? I was thinking maybe limiting animal placement to one additional resource per city otherwise the longer the game goes on the more unbalancing this will become.

Click to expand...

Image is alittle wide? But i get the point, i changed around some of the placement order, haven't had time to check them out yet if that helped or not? But i am trying.
As always thx for the input.

(attachment removed)

strategyonly said:

Image is alittle wide? But i get the point, i changed around some of the placement order, haven't had time to check them out yet if that helped or not? But i am trying.
As always thx for the input.

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Yeah I'm not sure what's going on with the image size? It's Imageshacks default width for forum posts?

Thanks for having a look into this, I'm happy to help as much as I can. As before though, if you don't agree with any feedback I give just say so... I won't be offended.

If you don't get chance to look at this and need any help, just let me know. I'm picking up xml as I go along and so far I have figured out how to make new techs, amend building and units etc... and get them all working in game complete with pics, pedia text etc.. so this kind of thing would be the next step for me!

I noticed that Vincentz Infinite Projects mod starts at 10,000 BC. If you haven't figured out how to make that work without bombing maybe he can help.

Actuarian said:

I noticed that Vincentz Infinite Projects mod starts at 10,000 BC. If you haven't figured out how to make that work without bombing maybe he can help.

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It has to do with the dll, and as far as i know, there is presently NO one that knows how to make a new one, sorry.

strategyonly said:

Thx will put your changes in now, got it. btw see attachment, i think that the yellow a welll, orange a mayyybe, and the red most definitely change the cost. This is only on Marathon speed!! Your thoughts

Click to expand...

The dance and music huts are more expensive than the animal traps because they give much more benefits. But I do agree that the meeting hall is probably too expensive compared to the others. The monument is probably good. It only gives one culture while in comparison the dance and music huts give up to 5 culture when you have all the right techs researched.

Im not sure what the bombing is, but the 10.000 BC start is in GlobalDefines.xml :

<Define>
<DefineName>START_YEAR</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>-10000</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>