[Sword of Islam]: Byzantine Conquest

Just some spawn dates to remind us:
1037 Seljuks (i.e. barb Seljuk horse archers will appear before that in Anatolia)
1072 Rum
1097 Principality of Antioch
1099 Kingdom of Jerusalem

0. I see some cities are unhealthy and limiting growth. E.g. Constantinople and Smyrna. A harbor in Constantinople is probably as valuable as a university and can be done in 5 turns. Smyrna is also going to be unhappy and that's why it's not growing, so I'll probably do a hippodrome there next. Actually, since Smyrna is going to be more unhappy than Constantinople, I decide to reroute the relic to there.
I see Medicine is selected but you meant to click back to Engineering (due next turn), right?
1. Engineering in, guilds next. I decide to start the golden age since several cataphracts are about to be finished. Tarsos starts Kutlag-timur.
Switch to theocracy, agrarianism, religious law. (That made Smyrna a little more happy so harbor next) I didn't choose slavery since we have no need of unhappiness and slave revolts, and we don't need to levy any troops yet. (Slave markets are OK but I think the maintenance is more trouble than it's worth).
During golden age, I see Algebra (with its free great scholar) can be done in 6 turns (and the Abbasids don't know Engineering yet but are researching it), and since our next great person is due in 4 turns from Tarsus' (100% great scholar thanks to the House of Wisdom), all we might need to do is partially bulb it and research it for 1 turn.
2. Lots of Bulgar barbarians (including some axemen) spawn near Adrianopolis. Queue some more cataphracts there.
3. Mopping up Bulgars.
4. Great scholar born in Tarsos, bulb Algebra and switch to it (2 turns).
5. Bulgars are all dead. Promote a cataphract against missile cavalry.
6. Algebra in, we get Simeon Seth (great scholar) in Constantinople. He can partially bulb paper or help us with another golden age--I save him for now. Back to guilds. Relic settled in Smyrna (it's now got a lot more room to grow in terms of happiness, so I start an aqueduct there).
7. We can steal textile arts from Abbasids. (Somehow the Georgians won't trade textile arts, maybe we need to get them pleased first)
8. 1 turn to end of GA so switch back to OR. I kept Religious Law since it's lower maintenance, and agrarianism, well, duh. We meet the Buyids again. Interesting monastic findings near Attaleia.

9. GA ends. The blacksmith is finally done in Trapezounta, I switch to a fairground.
10. (year is 1022) Georgians become pleased, we OB. Armenia begs for Engineering, uh, no.

To do:
1. Guilds will be done next turn, I would probably go for the paper-civil service line or the castle building-Asymmetric Warfare line. The Abbasids LOVE medicine so I don't think we need to research it.
2. Steal textile arts from Abbasids or wait until they have medicine.
3. Build roads to Georgia?
4. Just for demonstration purposes (and because I couldn't fit another cataphract in while in theocracy), I built a catapult with double collateral damage.
5. Seljuks are going to appear soon. Stacks of cataphracts are in eastern Anatolia.
6. The real Seljuks (the civ) will appear in 1037, and I think we start out with auto-war. We should OB with Buyids.
7. A mercenary is heading east to try to contact civs (it's kinda slow because we don't have OB with Buyids).
8. Workers are just bored and building roads. I did not convert all the mines to windmills near Tarsos. Once we know crop rotation we should chop some trees!
9. We should finish the war galley quest (just need 3 more war galleys).

I assume Ag Science is Crop Rotation?

Oh my God, I've been reading the tech trading thing wrong for some reason--we don't have any techs to steal from Abbasids except textile arts--we know Ag science already.

In that case, we should research crop rotation next. Workers need to work!

My post is amended.

rrosen, if nobody objects to it, please steal textile arts from Abbasids from my save before you hit return.

Too bad, it would've been great to steal that from the Abbasids.

I am very interested in the differences between my Byzantine games and yours. i usually have many more Cataphracts at this point, but I'm sure in the long term that your strategy is far superior to mine as you have much more infrastructure built, and have Education, which i never have quite yet. the main difference is I steal crucible steel from the Abbasids, which allows me to get to cataphracts earlier, which means I build them sooner instead of infrastructure. I probably end up with too many. i am going to be very interested in your numbers when Rum shows up. i usually have over twenty which tends to be overkill, drains my econ, and are less promoted then yours will be (through your GA civic switch) I also tend to have a bunch of catapults (which I don't use)

I love this game! there is so many small strategic points that have such huge impacts over the course of a game. i can't wait to see how this turns out.




HURRY UP AND PLAY!!!!

There's still 50 years to go before the Rum show up. We have plenty of time to build many more cataphracts (I estimate we'll probably go up to double our current force if need be).

Looking good! I'm still at a conference in the middle of the Pyrenees (will be back on tuesday) with occassional Internet access but no civ capability. While some succesion games have turnsets that takes several days, this one is moving along so nice and quickly I would hate to break the trend, so I'd like to skip this turnset.

Just a thought: should we use the forces that we have (but get them home well before turks show up in Anatolia) to help out the Buyids against the Seljuks, in order for them to be the friendly neighboor they can be?

I don't think so, since the Buyids hate us already for having declared war on them. And they're bound to die by the time Seljuks show up.
We can't spare any military right now since the Seljuk barbs are about to show up within the next 10-20 years.
Science Rules, your turn.

i am curious as to the use of "the Rum" instead of just Rum. It seems very awkward to me so I am wondering if there is a specific reason to call the civ as such.

Sorry, it's just a habit of mine, just like calling Borg the Borg.
It's just my shorthand for the Sultanate of Rum, the full name. Or "the Seljuks who chose to call themselves the Sultanate of Rum" when the Roman Empire is still technically alive (i.e. the Byzantines).
Think of it as "the Rum situation." We shouldn't dignify them with anything else.
Just like the Seljuks which is just the shorthand for the Great Seljuk Empire.
If anything, to Islam, the Byzantines are themselves called Ar-Rum (the Romans):

Wiki on Rûm
The Qur'an includes Surat Ar-Rum (i.e., the Sura dealing with "The Romans" or "The Byzantines"). The Byzantine Greeks, as the continuation of the Roman Empire, called themselves Ρωμιοί or Ρωμαίοι Rhomaioi, Romans, and the Arabs, therefore, called them "the Rûm", their territory "the land of the Rûm", and the Mediterranean "the Sea of the Rûm." They called ancient Greece by the name "Yūnān" (Ionia) and ancient Greeks "Yūnānī" (similar with Hebrew "Yavan" [יוון] for the country and "Yevanim" [יוונים] for the people). The ancient Romans were called either "Rūm" or sometimes "Latin'yun" (Latins).

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AnotherPacifist said:

Science Rules, your turn.

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Got it. I will play my set tonight.

AnotherPacifist said:

8. 1 turn to end of GA so switch back to OR. I kept Religious Law since it's lower maintenance, and agrarianism, well, duh.

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Agrarianism?? This is not good. All of our biggest cities are hurting because of this and the benefit of +1 or +2 commerce is not worth the loss of 1 citizen or specialist. Agrarianism is very yuck.

The reason for settling the Relic in our capital was not so much for happiness but for the monetary benefit of having the Royal Mint already there. Smyrna is not at its happiness threshold (no Hippodrome) so we didn't need to settle the Relic there.

Ah, I forgot about the Spiral Minaret...I always forget the Reliquary is a building. Adding the Reliquary will add about 4 gold to the capital. My bad.
Never mind, there'll be plenty of other relics to collect. E.g. Jerusalem.
Actually, when we convert the forests near Smyrna, it'll grow much quicker. Right now with the Reliquary, it's at 19 happiness (at 18 pop), so with weaver and hippodrome it should grow to 21 without problems.

Agrarianism is great! It provides extra money without extra maintenance. And after we can chop trees, a lot of forests are going to become farms (e.g. the ones near Dorylaion, Samsounta and Adrianopolis.) Health is never an issue until you have the plague.
I counted 27 farms or orchards currently...all of them with 1 extra commerce. How can that be not better?
Anyway, at this time, we're not losing specialists yet--the only major city that is unhealthy is Constantinople. (Trapezounta is just a stupid city--costs maintenance and doesn't have good production--I never take it into consideration)

On the subject of health, we should contact the Fatimids to trade for sugar.

I assume you want the Orthodox Cathedrals in Constantinople and Smyrna?
Should we take a detour (3-4 turns) for Religious Architecture to build the Bagrati Cathedral and cathedrals?

OK, since we're on the subject of civics, who thinks we should stay in Agrarianism for the whole game, or switch to Market Economy eventually? I vote for Market Economy (simply because eventually Sinope, Amasra and Smyrna will need to grow bigger).

I was trying to find what Jusos wrote about Agrarianism from the last game but I can't find it now.

blizzrd said:

Agrarianism?? This is not good. All of our biggest cities are hurting because of this and the benefit of +1 or +2 commerce is not worth the loss of 1 citizen or specialist. Agrarianism is very yuck.

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I agree with AP, Agrarianism is great! One the best civics in the game. Our land lacks food and thus we build farms everywhere, agrarianism gives easily +3-7 commerce per city, which is much better than a specialist (half of it actually). Very few of our cities will even suffer from the one . I would even be ready to run it the whole game like AP said.

The other reason I wouldn't want to run Agrarianism for the whole game is that with some of our conquests, there will be times when there are no roads to the trade system and those cities will be unhealthy, whereas with ME the free specialist (often engineer or even just a worker) will help build infrastructure and culture quicker.

But I'm fine with either one, just not decentralization (to which I see e-dead has attributed some instability with the new patch).

Done!

Here are my notes:

Turn 0: 1022AD: Nothing

Turn 1: 1024:AD: Guilds learned, begin researching Castle Building
Constantinople finishes Aqueduct, begins war galley
Sevestia finishes fairground, begins guild hall
Smyrna begins university; Attalea begins library

Turn 2: 1025 AD: Detachment of Cataprachts moved to Smyrna to put down a rebel peasant. Otherwise idle workers build roads. Byzantine sympathizers revolt in Tripoli.

Turn 3: 1027 AD: Ankyra, Dorylaion & Adrianople finish libraries, begin guild halls.
Amastris finishes fairground, begins Guild Hall.

Turn 4: 1028 AD: Refuse Makuria's vassal offer. CTD, use autosave from 1025.
After replaying from autosave, Tripoli flips to us. I disband it and garrison the marksman in Damascus.

Turn 5: 1030 AD: Smyrna's rebel peasant is destroyed. Constantinople finishes war galley begins another.

Turn 6: 1031 AD: Trapezouna finishes fairground, begins aqueduct. Wee meet Samanids.

Turn 7: 1033 AD: Castle Building is learned; I begin researching Asymmetrical Warfare.

Turn 8: 1034 AD: Refuse Armenian vassal offer. Attaleia finishes library; begins University. Cicillian Horse Archer meets our first Seljuk in Khorasan.

Turn 9: 1035 AD: Catapract kills Muslim Axeman near Sinope. I build a fort there with otherwise idle workers (road to Georgia is already built).
Constantinople finishes war galley, begins anotther. Once this last one is done, the Greek Fire Quest will be over.
Damascus finishes Al-Azhar, but infidels revolt and we lose 2 citizens.

Turn 10: 1036 AD: CTD (I need to stop using ALT-Tab so much). I restart from 1031 autosave falling the exact same procedure.
Ankyra finishes Guild Hall, begins Aqueduct. Sevesteia finishes guild hall, begins castle. Tarsos finishes Kutlug-Timur, begins Harbor.

Next player get to have fun with Seljuks! Hopefully we have enough cataphract.

I think we should research economics after asymmetrical warfare. We can also partially bulb it. We need Butcheries because too many cities are unhealthy.

Nice, we have gotten every important early game wonder so far!

No Economics, we need to go straight to Mechanical Engineering and Blast Furnace, so that we'll have Heavy Lancers against the Mongols. Our economy is currently so good that we don't need Civil Service just yet.

What about our unhealthy citizens? Abassids still don't know medicine for us to steal and I really don't like hospitals because they cost so many hammers when a butchery is so cheap.

Turn 0: 1037AD
Start with 77g + 8gpt @ 70% science. Micromanage Adrianopolis to finish Guild Hall in 1 turn. Trade Astrolabe to Samanids for 10g, they become Cautious. Demand 2gpt from Samanids (because we can, they won't last much longer). Request 30g from Armenia. Request 10g from Georgia. Trade Agricultural Science to Makuria for 50g. Open Borders with Buyids. Trade Shipbuilding with Buyids for 40g, they become Cautious. Trade Long-distance Trade with Buyids for Textile Arts.Finish with 217g + 10gpt.

Turn 1: 1039AD
Alp Arslan and his Seljuks spawn. Dorylaion finishes Guild Hall, starts Cataphract production. Samsounta finishes Fairground, starts Guild Hall. Adrianopolis finishes Guild Hall, starts Cataphract production. Our Cilician merc Horse Archer approaches Barbarian-controlled Balkh deep in Samanid territory, and easily captures Balkh. Liberate Balkh to Samanids (Pleased). Trade Engineering to Samanids for Religious Architecture.

Turn 2: 1040AD
Smyrna finishes University, starts Bagrati Cathedral. Trade Fish to Fatimids for 2gpt. Dismiss merc Turcopole Horse Archer, we have more than enough Cataphracts to handle things now and this merc is just a drain on our economy.

Turn 3: 1042AD
Our 6th War Galley is built in Konstantinopolis, start Guild Hall next. Quest of Siphons finishes, for 58g we get our very own Siphonarios. Trade Fish to Abbasids for 1gpt.

Turn 4: 1043AD
A War Galley is lost to a Pirate south of Rodos. Sinopi finishes University, starts Cataphract production.

Turn 5: 1045AD
Asymmetric Warfare is learnt, choose Religious Unity next (only a 3 turn detour from Mechanical Engineering for Minaret of Jam - we're doing great in terms of tech progress and can afford this little luxury). Free Great Spy is born in Konstantinopolis. We could launch a Golden Age, but I don't see the need just now. Our Great Spy heads for the fog of war in northern Mesopotamia in the meantime. Kaiseria finishes Guild Hall and starts Cataphract production.

Turn 6: 1046AD
Samanids collapse. Avenge our recently lost War Galley by destroying the Pirates south of Cyprus (they ran away before we could catch them earlier). Hook up the Salt in central Anatolia.

Turn 7: 1048AD
Uneventful

Turn 8: 1049AD
Religious Unity is learnt, choose Finery Forge next (9 turns @ 70% science). Guild Hall is finished in Tarsos, choose Harbor next. Our Cilician merc Horse Archer captures Herat from the Seljuks, which was only defended by a lonely Archer. Make peace with Seljuks for 20g + 2gpt. Liberate Herat to Seljuks. Meet Ghaznavids and Open Borders with them.

Turn 9: 1051AD
Abbasids capture Al-Mosul. Attaleia switches back from Cataphract production to building a Guild Hall. Upgrade our Fish deal with Armenia from 1gpt to 2gpt.

Turn 10: 1052AD
A Byzantine revolt occurs in Antioch. Our three Cataphracts waiting in Tarsos seize the moment and eliminate the defenders, and Antioch is razed.

To do:

• Perhaps remove Judaism from Damascus, if it is going to cause any more religious revolts?
• Wait for Abbasids to learn Medicine and then steal it from them. We may or may not require the Great Spy to do this.
• Build Minaret of Jam in Damascus after Guild Hall is completed (shortly).
• Build Cathedrals in Smyrna and Konstantinopolis preferentially before other cities.
• Finish preparing for the Sultanate of Rum spawn. We are mostly ready, but some of our Cataphracts will need to move into waiting position just N or Attaleia.
• Try and promote the Siphonarios.