My game on Immortal

Won. 1900AD, Cultural Vic. Not a good game for me, made alot of mistake and non optimal play.

Spoiler :

After 400AD

After looking around and accessing the situation I decide to pursue Cultural Victory. Reasons:
I am safe diplomatically.
I have 8 cities and 2 religion.
I have 2 cities that were cottaged up and one great GP farm for GA.
I can research Music in 7 turns for GA and Sistine.
Gilgemesh is trading Marble to aid in building of Sistine.

Also my favorite Victory Condition. I always go Cultural, if not Space, if not Domination. If somehow the situation allow me to go for religion/diplo victory, I will snag the opportunity too.

Lost both Music race and Sistine Chapel :mad: to Gilgemesh. He got a Great Engineer earlier, maybe he rushed build it. The building of TGL was the cause of losing 1 key GP and 1 key wonder. A dumb play by me there.

Traded Philo for a bunch of stuffs can't remember. Researched paper, babylon popped a GS due to TGL. Half bulbed Education. Another GS popped in Akkad, half bulbed Printing Press.

Gilgemesh switch to Christianity. Dropped to pleased.

Gilgemesh goes into WHEOOHRN. Federick is most likely the target. I bribed Federick to stop trading with Gilgemesh, to worsen his situation with Gil. Without Open Border, Federick's empire will shield me if Gilgemesh decide to DoW me instead.

Liberalism at 1150AD. Chose Nationalism for Hermitage and drafting (if i was the target). Pretty late Liberalism date. There's a huge war going on the other continent from the look of # of Great Generals born.

Build Hermitage in Akkad. Build up Banks/Markets/Grocers in 3 Cottaged cities. Islam spread to one of my cities. Great! 3 Religion! Research up to Democracy. Changed Civic to US/FS/Merch/Pacifism. Alernate between 100% Wealth slider and 100% Culture slider to rushbuy Temples/Cathedrels. Another GS spawn :mad::mad:. Used him for a Golden Age.

Gilgelmesh DoW on Federick. Great news for me. I refused all requests from either party. I need to be on talking terms with both of them, don't want any "trading with worst enemy" penalty.
I no longer need techs anyway.


First contact with the other continent. Russia, Aztec and Dutch DoW on poor Federick. Not sure if it is dogpile or Gilly bribed them. Given the circumstances, I decide to entirely abandon my military. Any DoW on me will result in defeat.

Got all my culture buildings up. 100% culture slider. Check victory screen, 85 turns to Victory. and HOLY CRAP Federick is going for Cultural too :twitch:! He will win in 100+ turns. I hope the war against Federick will take one of his Culture City.

I kept bribing Gilgemesh to convert to Hinduism every 10 turns or so to keep him at friendly. He switch back to Christianity every now and then. I am still at pleased with Federick.

There was peace. Federick loses 1 city to Russia (not the culture city). In return, he got 1 city from Gilgemesh. Culture race was very tight, my 41 Turns against Federick's 48 Turns. I lost one city to Federick's Culture Flip. Doesn't matter, it was a crappy city to secure Horses, I lost a food tile to German Culture earlier, a deadweight city.

Popped about 8 GAs for culture bombing along the way.

Russia DoW on Federick again. But nothing good came out of it.

My last GA popping in 3 turns. The last culture bomb will give me the victory. I check Victory screen, Federick last city to Legendary was.......... 81 turns :confused::confused:

He did not lose any city in war. I did not see him switching out of Free Speech. Don't know what happened there. Maybe the war forced him to turn the culture slider lower.

In any case, I won. Pretty lucky due to the good land and the Diplo situation. I click "just one more turn..." to WB to check how close I was. Federick is building Eiffle Tower. The war set him back alot. A tough break on my part.




I do if I convert to anything else anyway but I like avoiding having that 1T of anarchy just because of adopting HR.
Click to expand...

you might wanna run HR early this game. HR is Gilgemesh fav civic. The Diplo point is huge.
 

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HR is a very strong civic and learning to use (and abuse) it can really up your game. Even if it's just spaming some cheap units in your cap so you can work more cottages/specs it's more than worth it.

With Freddy that close I probably would have gone for a worker steal, (it may still be on the cards) you can stunt his expansion and block him off, this can give you more room to expand, really slow him down and leave him ripe for the picking later on (Freddy tends to be a bit of a pushover). The extra early worker is a big plus as well.
 
bobbyboy29 said:
With Freddy that close I probably would have gone for a worker steal, (it may still be on the cards) you can stunt his expansion and block him off, this can give you more room to expand, really slow him down and leave him ripe for the picking later on (Freddy tends to be a bit of a pushover). The extra early worker is a big plus as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah this game will be all about blocking off Freddy. Worker stealing should be good. You need to find horse or copper asap!

A rush on Freddy should be doable if he has no early copper/iron.
 
When is the right time for stealing a worker? Immediately? Or after possible revealing of copper?
 
Deity player said:
When is the right time for stealing a worker? Immediately? Or after possible revealing of copper?
Click to expand...

Worker stealing can be risky. You need to be prepared for an Archer heading your way. It does help to have copper or horse connected. Remember on this level he will start with 4 archers.

In this instance the risk is greater due to your closeness too. It is a risky strategy but if you can steal 1-2 workers it will slow him down. He may not make peace till you have killed at least one of his archer.

If you can worker steal while he has 1 city it may work better. I think Bobby was suggesting sooner than later.
 
3360 BC - 3040 BC
Spoiler :

Frederick founds hinduism.
Spoiler :


My warrior founds a tribal village quite late (on T22) and decides to take the risk and enter it and let himself be attacked by a lion on a flat land on the next turn (we are agressive after all). He reveals some gold and survives.
Spoiler :




Copper appears to be close.
Spoiler :


This is our land. I still have not found where is Gilgamesh.
Spoiler :


This is our Capital.
Spoiler :

The worker was sent to the wet corn and built a half of the road on his way. Then he was sent to one of the other corns and built the second half of the road on his way.


So what to do next?
Spoiler :
Whith the hindu holy city and no visible copper in the German cultural bordars, early war seems like a good plan. However I need to hook the copper first and its surroundings is still unexplored. Moreover, my warrior is badly injured and so the exploration will be slow. I think I will build worker and settler (but in which order?) soon. Should I use whipping to get these faster?

What to do with my worker next? Farming even the third corn for fast worker and settler at pop 3, building some mines instead or chopping some trees?

What to research now? It seems like I don't need anything else right now which is quite good. So maybe pottery and writing?
 

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Deity player said:
When is the right time for stealing a worker? Immediately? Or after possible revealing of copper?
Click to expand...

Worker steal should be ASAP IMO. You don't want them to have 1 improved tile worked so the goal is to scout out for which resource will be improved first and hit the worker there. Once at war park your warrior on a forested hill in the inner BFC, the AI will spam archers until it leaves or is killed. Depending on the AI's attack courage the AI will have 3-5 archers before it dares to attack you. Freddy's attack courage is pretty low I believe so you can usually wait till he has 4 archers before bailing, unless you want to add more warriors to the choke but I find that by then it's just a diversion of resources, you've set them back far enough already. (With a shaka or monty it'd usually only be 3). The second reason you want to attack early is that once he breaks the choke you'll want to sign peace straight away so his archers don't go on the offensive, so you'll want to last until he stops "refusing to talk".

You've already missed the boat here but it's worth knowing for future games.

ATM you're probably at a rush. Aggressive axes should do it but you could consider teching AH for chariots. On the other hand, the cap is on a hill and will have 2nd border pop due to hindu holy city, so maybe just try to box him in? It's a tough one, especially since you know so little about the land.
 
I don't see any reasons for attacking early. You definitely need more scouting though.

I would suggest blocking Freddy with a couple of cities. Sharing his religion will put you out of danger (he will not attack you at pleased). Frederick is an average trading partner but should be O.K.for the start of the game - and you can easily crush him later (he is very soft). :p

The question is - can you grab enough land peacefully? Scout to the W and N. Expand blocking Germany.
 
RNG can go to !#$!@#$ing hell on this one.

Spoiler :

Derp Derp Derp

Settle 2e after scouting the extra corn for riverside + some non forest hills. Frederick is met the next turn and snipes the lucky hut before I can possibly get my warrior over there. Derp.

The a few turns later, a barbarian panther kills my warrior from outside of sight for an instant-gib. I was on defensive terrain. Derp derp.

Great wall goes before I can get it, then SH. Ok fine, usually on immortal you can get one or even both easily but that's not an unreasonable outcome and I get some fail gold. Then oracle goes pre-2k BC also and I check and yes it's on immortal. Derp.

But not a problem. We have a soft AI nearby, copper, and with the fail gold I can easily finance an aggressive axe rush campaign. EZ peezy.

Derp Derp Derp lose 3 axes to 2 barb archers 98% odds, 88% odds, 80% Derp Derp Derp.

Final straw: At the start of a turn, there was a barb archer in plain sight. I clicked on my worker to stop him from moving to where the barb archer was, but the game ignored me and moved the worker there despite my attempts to interrupt it. That's it. That doesn't even happen in RTS, and firaxis is a DISGRACE for allowing this kind of crap to happen in TBS. Nothing irks me like being unable to play a game due to its controls, and losing expensive early units because the game decides your commands aren't valid (!) isn't playable.

Given the surrounding terrain I probably could have STILL won that game, but there's only a finite level of cheap frustration a person can take. The only thing missing from this game was a turn 21 vedic aryan uprising triggered by freddy hitting the player for a quick kill.

If people wonder why I don't post here as much as I used to, crap like this is why. I still play this game and generally still do well at it, but between these kinds of insults and ESPECIALLY because firaxis has never, ever made a passable UI that allows one to play the game w/o fighting it really keeps me from burning through games like I used to.



Players should never, ever be punished for using in-game control options. Units should not suicide w/o prompt and AGAINST player efforts to stop it. Firaxis, this isn't civ I. The game wasn't made in 1990, is it really beyond the ability of a team of professional designers to make a title where the controls work properly?
 
TheMeInTeam said:
RNG can go to !#$!@#$ing hell on this one.

Spoiler :

Derp Derp Derp

Settle 2e after scouting the extra corn for riverside + some non forest hills. Frederick is met the next turn and snipes the lucky hut before I can possibly get my warrior over there. Derp.

The a few turns later, a barbarian panther kills my warrior from outside of sight for an instant-gib. I was on defensive terrain. Derp derp.

Great wall goes before I can get it, then SH. Ok fine, usually on immortal you can get one or even both easily but that's not an unreasonable outcome and I get some fail gold. Then oracle goes pre-2k BC also and I check and yes it's on immortal. Derp.

But not a problem. We have a soft AI nearby, copper, and with the fail gold I can easily finance an aggressive axe rush campaign. EZ peezy.

Derp Derp Derp lose 3 axes to 2 barb archers 98% odds, 88% odds, 80% Derp Derp Derp.

Final straw: At the start of a turn, there was a barb archer in plain sight. I clicked on my worker to stop him from moving to where the barb archer was, but the game ignored me and moved the worker there despite my attempts to interrupt it. That's it. That doesn't even happen in RTS, and firaxis is a DISGRACE for allowing this kind of crap to happen in TBS. Nothing irks me like being unable to play a game due to its controls, and losing expensive early units because the game decides your commands aren't valid (!) isn't playable.

Given the surrounding terrain I probably could have STILL won that game, but there's only a finite level of cheap frustration a person can take. The only thing missing from this game was a turn 21 vedic aryan uprising triggered by freddy hitting the player for a quick kill.

If people wonder why I don't post here as much as I used to, crap like this is why. I still play this game and generally still do well at it, but between these kinds of insults and ESPECIALLY because firaxis has never, ever made a passable UI that allows one to play the game w/o fighting it really keeps me from burning through games like I used to.



Players should never, ever be punished for using in-game control options. Units should not suicide w/o prompt and AGAINST player efforts to stop it. Firaxis, this isn't civ I. The game wasn't made in 1990, is it really beyond the ability of a team of professional designers to make a title where the controls work properly?
Click to expand...

Seems like you had not much luck trying this game?! Ok, I will consider the possibility of blocking Frederick as a safer plan rather than attacking him.
 
Seems like you had not much luck trying this game?! Ok, I will consider the possibility of blocking Frederick as a safer plan rather than attacking him.
Click to expand...

Not much luck is right. You should be able to kill or block easily if you don't have 4 near-consecutive terrible odds draws. The trigger for me quitting was losing an earlygame worker to the UI though. People will say it's not a problem, but because I had queued orders from a previous turn, the game literally BLOCKED me giving him new orders at turn start and moved him right next to a barb archer. It was at that point I decided to quit in disgust and play a better-made game for a while. Civ IV has a lot of fun in it and very deep strategy, but lacks in the basics, like being able to give orders 100% of the time, not declaring on the AI by total accident, having the UI tell you the truth, etc etc.
 
3040 BC - 2520 BC
Spoiler :

I changed my research to AH since there was a chance of revealing horses in my BFC.
Spoiler :


I lost the only road in my empire due to an event :sad: (the alternative was losing 20 gold).
Spoiler :


At pop 3, I started my second worker, then finished the warrior in 1T and started a settler.
Spoiler :



The new warrior killed a barbarian warrior on defense without any problem.
Spoiler :


This is our capital.
Spoiler :


This is our land (little more scouted).
Spoiler :


You can see there three horses, one of them right next to us, the other in Germany and the last one NE. There is also rice near the copper. It also looks like there is an ocean to NE. And Frederick found another city SW from Berlin.


I would like to get some advices.
1. What to tech now (fishing, pottery, ...)?
2. Where to setlle my second city (copper + river, copper + rice, fish + cow, fish + sugar, ...)?
3. What to do with my workers (chop, preroad, ...)?
4. What to build after the settler (warrior, settler, worker, barracks, ...)?
 
TheMeInTeam said:
Not much luck is right. You should be able to kill or block easily if you don't have 4 near-consecutive terrible odds draws. The trigger for me quitting was losing an earlygame worker to the UI though. People will say it's not a problem, but because I had queued orders from a previous turn, the game literally BLOCKED me giving him new orders at turn start and moved him right next to a barb archer. It was at that point I decided to quit in disgust and play a better-made game for a while. Civ IV has a lot of fun in it and very deep strategy, but lacks in the basics, like being able to give orders 100% of the time, not declaring on the AI by total accident, having the UI tell you the truth, etc etc.
Click to expand...

I think this has to do with the order in which the UI cycles through orders. If your first warrior is alive and not sleeping, he should always act before your "automated" worker. Not a great work around for the "automated" worker thing (I've lost workers to this too) but I think it should work. The tough part is keeping that first warrior alive of course.
 
Growing to size 4 before starting the settler would have taken 1 turn and gained you some commerce without altering the finish date of the settler...

100/13 = 7.69 = 8 turns
100/15 = 6.67 = 7 turns
 
Nice catch by Kossin.

Things you need to sort out:

1. Which (if any) city will you choose as a commerce headquarters - the capital is O.K. but is probably better suited for a GP farm or a production capital. The spot to the N (horse+double silk) would be a good choice for a commerce generator.

2. If you decide to cottage up the capital - you need pottery as soon as possible, otherwise you can delay it.

3. Military buildup / barbarian defense - you will need a LOT more warriors to fogbust the land. The other alternative is to hook up horses or copper immediately.

So here are the alternatives as I see them:

1. Cottaging the capital:

1A - Get a city along the river to the SE to block Frederick and a lot of warriors to forgbust.

1B - Get a city near the copper (I don't really see a good location - maybe sharing the capital's corn)

2. Getting a different commerce city - the spot to the north will provide you with horses for a limited barb protection. This would be my favorite alternative but it adds no blocking value.

You need to scout SE - maybe there is a suitable city spot along the river after all.
 
kossin said:
Growing to size 4 before starting the settler would have taken 1 turn and gained you some commerce without altering the finish date of the settler...

100/13 = 7.69 = 8 turns
100/15 = 6.67 = 7 turns
Click to expand...

That is true, of course. I try to avoid using math too much in my games but this computation is really straightforward :blush: Thanks for the tip.
 
shpeka said:
1. Which (if any) city will you choose as a commerce headquarters - the capital is O.K. but is probably better suited for a GP farm or a production capital. The spot to the N (horse+double silk) would be a good choice for a commerce generator.
Click to expand...

I moved my initial settler because I wanted 8 grasland hills in my capital. So I tend to create a production city from it. It will take a while to work all those tiles so meanwhile, I can produce GPP there. But I tend to build no cottages in the capital.

The spot to the N is really nice and I could really build cottages there. I guess that the right spot for this city is 1N from the horses?

shpeka said:
2. If you decide to cottage up the capital - you need pottery as soon as possible, otherwise you can delay it.
Click to expand...
I can delay pottery but what to research instead? I would say fishing if I was sure I can get the fish + cow / fish + sugar city. But if I can't then fishing is a waste. So maybe mysticism.

shpeka said:
3. Military buildup / barbarian defense - you will need a LOT more warriors to fogbust the land. The other alternative is to hook up horses or copper immediately.
Click to expand...
shpeka said:
1B - Get a city near the copper (I don't really see a good location - maybe sharing the capital's corn)
Click to expand...
shpeka said:
1A - Get a city along the river to the SE to block Frederick and a lot of warriors to forgbust.
Click to expand...
shpeka said:
2. Getting a different commerce city - the spot to the north will provide you with horses for a limited barb protection. This would be my favorite alternative but it adds no blocking value.
Click to expand...


I know, I have only 2 warriors at the moment. I am not a fan of the horse city right now just because I have no fogbuster there. I think that I have to grab that copper or build a plenty of warriors right away (and this is something I don't feel too much comfortable about). However, I can't see a good location for the copper city as well. It can't share any corn whith my capital. Maybe 1NE from the copper. Then it would have rice and after building a monument, it would have a good blocking value. (But should I research mysticism now? Maybe yes, there is no need for any other techs at the moment.)

shpeka said:
You need to scout SE - maybe there is a suitable city spot along the river after all.
Click to expand...
Yes, but there is no more time for scouting before settling the second city.
 
2520 BC - 1840 BC
Spoiler :

I wanted some obelisks for blocking so researsch went...
Spoiler :


After finishing the first settler, I followed Kossin's advice and let my capital grow to pop 4 before starting the second settler.
Spoiler :



Since I did not see any german settlers, I waited with settling the second city 2T (1T to finish mysticism and then 1T more to finish the road).
Spoiler :




Research set to...
Spoiler :


I also built the road connecting my capital with Berlin. Now I only wait for OB.
Spoiler :


In the second city, I firstly improved the copper tile to build axes quickly, the rice can wait.
Spoiler :


Research...
Spoiler :


I worked more mines instead of the corns to finish the warrior on the same turn when the copper is online. This is because this is our third warrior and will be used only for city garrison. If I didn't finish him this turn then I would have to continue building a more expensive axeman instead of him.
Spoiler :


I started an axeman on the next turn.
Spoiler :


The most advanced civilizations of the world...
Spoiler :


Our third city. Firstly, I intended to grow to pop 2 and whip the monument. But on the next turn, I realized that building the monument with hammers will be faster since one of my workers is already mining that hill. I did the same mistake with my second city, too. Instead of working the copper tile from the begining, I let the city grow on the rice tile. This lead to later monument.
Spoiler :





When my capital reaches pop 5, I changed the worked tiles manually in this manner.
Spoiler :



And this is where I stopped playing. The current situation:
Spoiler :

Pottery finished. The next tech is most probably this one...
Spoiler :


Our cities.
Spoiler :




Our land (still not so well scouted, but axes are almost in play).
Spoiler :



There are at least three barb cities in our unclaimed land but this one (on a hill) is the closest and in a good spot. Two archers have just left the city and two are fortified there.
Spoiler :


Look at the demographic screen, we are the first (!!!) in production! Also, Frederick has no copper. Maybe it is still not too late for an axe rush??? What do you think?
Spoiler :






I would appreciate any piece of advice! Is the early war a good plan? If not, how quickly should I claim all the land? Is it better to capture those barb cities first? How many axes do I need? Any other advice?
 
I would not be planning a war yet with just axes. I would rather peacefully settle more land and go after Freddy once he settles his shrine for you. Freddy also has marble so he may be building the Temple of Artemis for you too.

Think Bulgar will culture flip to you? seems likely and in the mean time your axes can escort settlers or attack the other barb targets to the north.
 
I'm far from an expert, but I'd have placed that fish city 1S on the plains hill.
You gain an extra hammer every turn for life, you don't need to feed two plains hills, and eventually it can work the 6 yield grass cow.

It also allows a filler city later on one of the sugars after you get the barb city.
 
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