SGOTM 14 - Phoenix Rising

vranasm said:
L
I think moving both workers into same forest is waste. The wb is not chopped with 1 tree so the delay when the chop comes 2T later then 1T is not big.
Click to expand...

I think we don't have a much better choice, they both spend 2 turns to get on this forest, but what can they do instead?
The 2nd worker would not be able to move to the gems in 1 turn if he stays behind to chop the other forest.
The benefit we get in return is that the forest is gone and we can now road the silk tile in 2 turns, desert is 3 turns. I think it would make up for it, what would be your alternate plan?
 
Mylene said:
I think we don't have a much better choice, they both spend 2 turns to get on this forest, but what can they do instead? The benefit we get in return is that the forest is gone and we can now road the silk tile in 2 turns, desert is 3 turns. I think it would make up for it, what would be your alternate plan?
Click to expand...

ok I think I will have to clear this a bit...

worker 1 goes old way:
moves to PH
chops 1T (cancel action)
moves gems
mines gems

worker 2 goes new way:
moves PF (or PH doesn't matter much)
moves silk
chops silk
helps with gem mine

if nothing unexpected happens and all is according to testgame, the worker from silk the turn after chop moves to gems and insta-improves them
meaning the TW should go down by 1T

and next turn (that means not in the TS I play in the evening) both workers can start roading in sync... on gems, on silk
then they can split again, where 1 worker goes to finish the PH chop AND road, the other can go back to improve wheat or something.

this has to be tested a bit for next TS, since imo it is important to finish the PH chop to get some hammers into another worker after all that growth in capital + finishing roading.
 
V - ignore deer chop idea.

Go with gems first.

Silk forest idea seems good. Make sure the tile is owned by the right city.

Play on the above basis. :)
 
btw my main concern is not to forget to switch to slavery...
you won't believe how many times I had to reload the test until I finally switched into slavery when testing the impact of slavery...
 
Whoops, nevermind. Long post advocating wheat first deleted. Go ahead and play! I still want that farm built one day though ;)
 
vranasm said:
btw my main concern is not to forget to switch to slavery...
you won't believe how many times I had to reload the test until I finally switched into slavery when testing the impact of slavery...
Click to expand...

i've restarted test 3 times for that very reason.

Let's chop the silk straight up and then improve the mine, send 1 worker to the wheat and 1 to road from silk to ph above Topeka. You seem to be caught up with desyncing workers. I'm not concerned with that at all. In honesty, at this point in the game we should not be stacking workers much at all.
 
@Vran i played both methods.
1. The plan with 1 worker staying behind, chopping 1 turn on the first PH they both move on, then move to gems. Outcome: Gems finished turn 41, both workers no movement points left, 1 turn of pre-chopping gained.

Spoiler :


2. Both workers move to silk, chop to finish and then to gems.
Outcome: Gems finished same turn 41, 1 worker has movement left, no pre-chop gained.

Spoiler :


So now the question would be what do we prefer, the pre-chop or the movement points.
I think the points would allow us to finish the trade routes 1 turn earlier, cos the worker can move to the PH as shown in the screenie and start roading there instead of flat land, already having done this move now.
 
yep the TR will be sooner your way...

and after thinking it a bit through it seems that even the chop will be the same time if we decide to chop into 3rd worker instead of road (which I would prefer).
The road from gems will be in 4 the turn after anyway.

But that is for next TS ;-)
 
the TS is played with big changes!!!

here is report log

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 2680 BC to 2400 BC:


Turn 37, 2520 BC: Good Witch of the East adopts Slavery!

Turn 38, 2480 BC: TOPEKA will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 38, 2480 BC: Judaism has been founded in a distant land!
Turn 38, 2480 BC: Wicked Witch of the East adopts Slavery!

Turn 39, 2440 BC: TOPEKA has grown to size 4.
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Washington has been founded.
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 20 ℤ for Washington.
Turn 39, 2440 BC: You have discovered The Wheel!
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Wicked Witch of the North has founded Beshbalik in a distant land.


report in next post, have to mix images with text
 
The round is played and uploaded.

I start the round with switching to TW and worker chops, scout warrior is on the way back without heal as discussed.

Next turn we meet our first neighbors!!!
Spoiler :

don't have Elisabeth SS, since she didn't pop... weird.

Elisabeth popped up in the south west... and is named „Good witch of the north“... why?
Spoiler :

Didn't found GK scout
GK is named „Wicked witch of the north“

Victory screen, Eli seems to be „big“
Spoiler :


Hmm now I understand! Someone got inspiration and those 2 AI's are TEAMED!!!
Spoiler :


T36 we meet another.... pair?
Spoiler :


yep of course... another pair of „good“ and „wicked“, this time from the east
Spoiler :


wasn't sure where he was! But found him accidentely
Spoiler :


was strongly thinking about spying on someone...but decide not to aim yet.

Something is wrong... T40 and we have The Wheel
Spoiler :


I pause the game of course...
the gems are improved for 1T. Worker 2 waits for instructions.

Scout warrior is in position 1SW of copper.

We have fogbust warrior on PH 1NW of capital, another 1W of city 2, both on the way towards cities to be fogbusted (no prequeued actions)

I think this TS changes a thing!

and the test is waaaay off... everything is out of sync with live...
 
Woah!!! Boy do we need a new test save!! I did not expect that team AI!!! Explains why we have 8 other AI.

It could be we have 4 other hubs shared by 2 Ai each? We just don't know.

As for wheel it could be the Ai have been given more free techs. So it was cheaper for us?
 
Gumbolt said:
Woah!!! Boy do we need a new test save!! I did not expect that team AI!!! Explains why we have 8 other AI.

It could be we have 4 other hubs shared by 2 Ai each? We just don't know.
Click to expand...

those teams make it for sure complicated!

it looks like it's paired warmonger with peaceful guy to tech better the pairing and be military strong.

I played only 1 teamed game (in the S&T subforum that IU 60) and boy the teching is hell... the AI's are so quick! you play like with only 4 trade partners!

Extremely dangerous, i really think everyone should test some teamed game, to get a feeling for early game teching.

don't forget the less number of AI's the tougher game... if the AI's got enough land the teamed game will be a lot tougher then opposing single AI's which you slice one by one.

I think the timing of TW is off due to "know tech" bonus.

edit:
and we have yet to find creative + Mansa musa... can it be Zara+MM? Scares me such thought!
 
does team AI's make diplo easier or tougher?

i start to be very interested about Gum's "Radio" effort.
I have the feeling that this map should be tough from the military standpoint.

ok... I came with this "brilliant" idea about positions ;-)

 
So early war would ruin a lot of relations huh ;)
Their tech speed will be faster due to this as well?
And i have no idea what that means for wonders, but probably that the good witches could build let's say...GLH in peace?

Another first thought...we would face longbows or worse, and one unit spammer everywhere with Astro/Maces/Catas?
 
Mylene said:
So early war would ruin a lot of relations huh ;)
Their tech speed will be faster due to this as well?
And i have no idea what that means for wonders, but probably that the good witches could build let's say...GLH in peace?

Another first thought...we would face longbows or worse, and one unit spammer everywhere with Astro/Maces/Catas?
Click to expand...

Also for tech speeds. Fewer hubs could well mean oceans between land. On a plus side if there are only 4 -5 land masses it will make war much easier as less travel. The main issue is you need to be able to take down both AI quickly.
 
@My

bigger problem is you have less trading partners then usual, thus you can't multiply your research the same way as with 6 regular AI's.

that IU 60 was very good lesson in this regard.

I would expect quick tech game to a degree. With normal speed it will be tricky to have good momentum with warfare.

The random personalities won't make this any easier... and have to admit I don't understand they used them in team game set up with the mind of "peacemonger" covered by "warmonger"... this way they easily could produce double psycho or double peacemonger AI's.
 
I think that makes late HAs close to impossible, one thing to scratch off the list imo.
 
On a plus side we do have great strength in bulbing. We can also still gift techs to get them all to pleased. This is only emperor so we should be able to MM and get ahead of the AI.

Now as they are a team does this mean they have to both be pleased not to declare on us?? Another plus is all 4 teams may well be bribed into war. I agree we need a new test save and to test out the teams.

I would bet the fourth team will have the Wizard on it. not sure.

How does teams affect voting on diplomatic?
 
oh god... now i know why the TW is T40...

I didn't switch into slavery

I am sooo sorry about this :-(. Totally slipped my mind.
 
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