SGOTM 14 - Phoenix Rising

@Gumi looks nice, you went for a settler before library in Wash i see.
I was thinking i maybe should have done that too, Atlanta/Phila are a bit further advanced in your save :)
Overall i think this is among the best openings we can get here, pottery is an option as well it probably evens out.
 
Mylene said:
@Gumi looks nice, you went for a settler before library in Wash i see.
I was thinking i maybe should have done that too, Atlanta/Phila are a bit further advanced in your save :)
Overall i think this is among the best openings we can get here, pottery is an option as well it probably evens out.
Click to expand...

Overall I should have 3 libraries. Downside is my save is screaming for 2-3 workers asap. The rex also hit my science. Note the city build dates.

We would need workers to help mine the migs city and perhaps mine the sheep city and get libraries built in both. We can then use city 3/4/5 for worker/settler pumps. Perhaps even whip granaries too.
 
if we see no major benefit to early slavery, remember that we conserve a turn when mids get in because we can switch to both rep and slavery with only 1 turn of anarchy.
 
Jaybone said:
if we see no major benefit to early slavery, remember that we conserve a turn when mids get in because we can switch to both rep and slavery with only 1 turn of anarchy.
Click to expand...

I think slavery and 2-3 whips will help us push out city 3/4/5.

Whilst non slavery pushes the techside a bit further forward the extra cities at size 3-4 with rep scientists will out weigh it. We just need to get the slavery whips right.

Without slavery i found it quite hard to match mylenes test game. With Slavery I have got city 4/5 up to size 3 by 975bc. 7/5/3/1/1 Against 5/4/4/3/3. 2 pop in it but an extra city.

I think BB is on the right tracks. We just need to back trade pottery and get some granaries in.
 
As mentioned, i think slavery is easier to play (live game will always be "harder to play :) ).
It also adds the option to whip out an archer quick, now probably this won't be needed but never know.
 
You make some good points my. The only risk of warriors will be from below the capital I think. The 3rd capital border pop should help. We could send warrior next built in NY towards capital. We need to be careful on defences.

Okay perhaps BB should make any adaptions to his plan and we can play on if all agreed? I figure 1800bc should put us at point where city 3 is built or just built.

BB you do need to confirm how you intend to scout with the workboat. I am tempted to say send it east and hope we meet land below us. West is the safe option i guess.
 
Thanks for the comments on scouting gumbolt, and the testing on whipping mylene. Overall, I like slavery mostly for the flexibility. We don't know what will come our way in the next 2 TS.

I think I'll try and scout east with the workboat, it reveals land to our south and gives a chance of finding a route to an AI who is close to us. GOing west will mostly reveal things we've already seen on the spoke, we should meet the rest of the AI's this turnset so I think that meeting with WB's is a non issue.

Just to confirm, the current plan for cap is warrior->grow to s5->worker->2popwhip settler->worker, then grow back on library?
 
in all tests I done I sent the WB east->north... to me it seems like we have south west scouted "enough", let's see how it looks around marble.

the harder we rex and hit science slider, the better we will be in the end. There is a lot of good places to settle cities on, so I don't see arguments that would say not to have 6-7 cities soon enough.
It's not like you settle spots just for the sake of settling. we could have 7 cities each one with multiple of food resources and some resources added!

We are philo, we will run Rep and scientists, position of science slider will be irrelevant for a long time.

lol xpost with bobby ;-)
 
The key thing on scouting is to find an Ai city for trade routes. Then look for the barb city! Going west is the safe option. This would map out the coastline to the next AI. Tested it only takes 5-7 turns to go round coast. You may even find another Ai doing this.

Capital grow to S5 and if need be get 1 turn in on warrior. Consider 1 pop whip for settler?

As for worker/settler/worker. Test it and see how it feels. Overall my main issue was lack of workers which is why I suggested worker/worker/settler as an option.

Oh I am away for 2 days now so you will need to do what testing you need and play.
 
Definetly go south with the WB. If you use it to check out the marble, you'll either have to backtrack or go around our entire hub to find anything new. Going south will likely earn us some foreign TRs as soon as we can sign OBs.
 
Having tested it going west/south for the scouting works out well. Agree with stuge there.

In terms of whipping in capital. For settler do a 1 pop whip! Shaves 2-3 turns off. Still got the city 1800bc and threw in 1 chop into this.

In terms of 2nd city I did 2 chops into a settler and it finishes in 6-7 turns later. Not even sure i chopped NY. Again test this out. No point whipping away pop for the sake of it.

On this test Wash/NY were size 5 and I had 3 other cities at size 4. I could of whipped the workboats.

A few thoughts on micromanagement. You may be able to work a 2f2c tile in capital in first few turns without losing a turn on the warrior. it may speed up writing by 1 turn.

2nd city. With slavery whip it takes 10 turns to regrow. I swapped it to wheat to speed this up. Probably worth it.

On cities 4/5 try and use some sea commerce to help science. When I set up city 5 science fell to 8 science a turn at around 30%. Wasn't good.

Overall we can get 5 cities well set up for 1000bc. We need to get 1 chop into library in stone city once mids is done. Planning is everything.

Good luck with your turnset BB. You'll do fine. :)
 
bobbyboy29 said:
OK so here's the plan: Focusing mostly on maxing out food and hammers as well as worker timing. Note that I'm working off the live game numbers, not the test game, which has the cap slightly ahead on food stored and hammers in the warrior. Also, can I rename washington please? I keep thinking it's the capital...

T0: First things first I make the slavery switch now. There's no better time, we're currently working 2 unimproved tiles and the later we do it, the more it hurts. Slavery helps get a worker and settler out quicksmart from the cap. The workers are both mining the gems. City builds do not change. I also switch techs to writing (hopefully I don't forget that one).

T1: Slavery is in, the gems are mined and switched to in new york. 1 worker has movement left, he builds a road on the gems, this works out to be movement neutral as it means we get to the wheat quicker, plus gives us the route so it's a no brainer IMO.

T2: Warrior done in Topeka. (Should he go explore or spawnbust? North or south? I want to scout round the marble personally). Put 1 turn into warrior in Topeka so it can grow to size 5. 1 worker finishes the gems rd so the other can zip across and start farming this turn.

T3: Topeka size 5 switches to worker. Both workers on the wheat now

T4: 2 pop whip worker in Topeka, it's whipping away 2 unimproved tiles, speeds up the worker which speeds up the settler in turn with a chop. Farm is finished, NY switches to the farm to grow to size 2. Workboat done in NY, starts a library so it can keep growing.

T5: 2 workers move back towards washington to build route between wash and NY. New worker moves 1 NE to chop the forest. Topeka puts whip overflow into settler.

T6-8: The 2 workers build roads to finish route from wash to topeka. 3rd worker is chopping/ roading to next city spot. Topeka is growing back on a warrior or library (I think this is where we can use slavery to slip the lib in Topeka, regrowing post whip and pre-chop, alternately we could just build more warrs in this time). During this period washington grows to size 2 and is on gems+ wheat.

T9or 10: hard to tell which turn I'll be able to do this but I can time a chop from the 2 workers on the PH with the worker on the forest NE to finish the settler in one turn.

T11-15:At this point it's hard to be too precise I feel that the live and test games desynch too much at this point. Neither Topeka nor washington will finish their next builds during my TS, atm that looks like they'll both be growing on libraries or spawnbusters depending on what you want. The third city will be founded on the PH next to stone and start a WB. Writing will be finished and I'll start on masonry
Click to expand...

So people are happy with this plan, with the alteration of cap going worker /settler/ worker with whipping the settler and desynching the 2 workers so one improves the wheat and the other roads back to the cap?

If there's anything else then please let me know, if not I will play tomorrow.
 
I would play. 1 pop whips? Do play test 2400bc test game.
 
btw, I will be out of town next week so I should be slotted 1 down in the order, have stuge or cripps leapfrog me and i will play after them
 
OK round is played here's the log:
Spoiler :
Here is your Session Turn Log from 2400 BC to 1840 BC:

Turn 40, 2400 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 40, 2400 BC: Dorothy adopts Slavery!
Turn 40, 2400 BC: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

Turn 43, 2280 BC: Stonehenge has been built in a far away land!

Turn 47, 2120 BC: You have trained a Worker in TOPEKA. Work has now begun on a Warrior.
Turn 47, 2120 BC: The Great Wall has been built in a far away land!

Turn 48, 2080 BC: Good Witch of the East converts to Buddhism!

Turn 50, 2000 BC: You have discovered Writing!
Turn 50, 2000 BC: The borders of TOPEKA have expanded!
Turn 50, 2000 BC: You have trained a Settler in TOPEKA. Work has now begun on a Worker.

Turn 52, 1920 BC: TOPEKA can hurry Worker for 1⇴ with 10ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 52, 1920 BC: Washington will grow to size 3 on the next turn.

Turn 53, 1880 BC: Washington has grown to size 3.
Turn 53, 1880 BC: Stone city has been founded.

 
OK the round is played, I stopped 1 turn short (played 14 turns total) because there's some fiddly worker micro coming next turn as well as some build decisions.

Main things of note:
1) No more AI's yet or borders found although decent progress was made with exploring workboat (southwest was definitely the way to go!)

2) Great wall went pretty damn early, someone has masonry and potentially stone

3) Live save is a bit slower than test save, still managed to get out 3 cities and 4 workers which is good though.

Pics of interest:
Spoiler :


Ocean tile 2 to the diagonal means that there is land very near on the other side of the passage. Although it looks like they'll have access to us but maybe not us to them, thanks neilmeister :rolleyes:!

Spoiler :

Stonehenge goes.

Spoiler :

Great wall follows not long after. :eek:

Spoiler :

Barb city pops up in a decent location. Later border pop gave us visibility to it's defenses. 3 archers.

Spoiler :

Final screen of our empire. I remembered to pause hooray:goodjob:!

Spoiler :

Demographics. We're no. 1 in land area and crop yield...

OK so my thoughts for what's needed for next TS:

1) Workers: we've got 3 in the vicinity of the cap/stone. Masonry is in in 2 turns, we want that stone improved asap obviously, there are a variety of ways this can be achieved. There is also a chop that can be finished this turn which we can give the hammers to either the cap OR the stone city. After that we'll probably need to chop like crazy because with that early GW, we risk losing mids.

2) Warriors: I've erred on the side of caution, we're running a skeleton military but if we really want we can send some of those out to spawnbust instead (Bust copper, horse spot from barb cities?). 1 warrior is already heading out to explore north, I also explored the southern coast revealing some seafood near marble as well.

3) City builds: we almost definitely need the library in washington. Topeka has a few turns before it starts on mids, it could finish a warrior, or put it all towards a lib.
 
Looks good, but the barb city is a major problem. It was quite important to make sure that we kept a warrior in the vicinity to prevent city spawn. That is one of our best early sites that we now want have for a very long time. We don't need warriors fortified in cities for a bit. IMO that barb city is pretty devastating.

Also, why was the woody warrior sent out exploring again. I thought we agreed that he would spawn bust the area around copper. I expect another barb city will pop up there as well - plus an influx of barbs from that direction. Let the WBs do the scouting. Spawnbusting is important and we are doing no spawnbusting at the moment. Exploring that central area doesn't do us much good anyway. We know what is there. We are just going to end up losing Woody.
 
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