SGOTM 14 - One Short Straw

Well, if we are going to be the ones to build it, we'll know (since it gets built at the end of the turn and you "automatically get it" if you have enough Hammers to complete it and it hasn't already been built, as our Hammers will "count first" before any AIs' Hammers will count). So, if the plan is to stop, then we might as well stop/pause play with a unit still active on the turn that it will get completed, so that the pop-up for which tech to chose won't yet appear, giving a chance for last-minute opinions on what tech to take.

Dhoomstriker said:

So, if the plan is to stop, then we might as well stop/pause play with a unit still active on the turn that it will get completed, so that the pop-up for which tech to chose won't yet appear, giving a chance for last-minute opinions on what tech to take.

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I'm not familiar with this technique, but my plan was to pause the turn before, when the Oracle hammers are in, so we can discuss that choice, if we actually get that far.

Okay, I've done my testing and fiddling and I'm satisfied with going forward on the Oracle plan. I'll pause if it's FIDL or if the SHTF or as above.

@Dhoom: Since you like technicalities, it's possible to lose a wonder on the last turn if an AI uses a GE to finish the wonder in the IT. Of course, in this scenario, no AI could have spawned a GE yet. I like your avatar. Definite improvement...

LowtherCastle said:

@Dhoom: Since you like technicalities, it's possible to lose a wonder on the last turn if an AI uses a GE to finish the wonder in the IT. Of course, in this scenario, no AI could have spawned a GE yet. I like your avatar. Definite improvement...

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No - we get the wonder before they even take their turn. I've had a look at the turn sequence in the code. In Single-player play (or sequential-turns multiplayer), there are no ties - we take our turn, we get all our builds, techs, etc, then the first AI takes their turn, then the next AI,etc.

ZPV said:

No - we get the wonder before they even take their turn. I've had a look at the turn sequence in the code. In Single-player play (or sequential-turns multiplayer), there are no ties - we take our turn, we get all our builds, techs, etc, then the first AI takes their turn, then the next AI,etc.

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Has this changed from vanilla? It was not only a known fact of life, but it happened to me.

LC Turnset T71-

T71 - 1160BC

IT -- some bad news, at least 2 new AI citis founded.
some good news, Washington grew a forest!

T72- 1120BC
Our northern wb sees Lizzie's culture. I'm pausing to check (or hear from you guys) whether or not this means we can now get TRs from Lizzie.



T73 - 1080BC
We have dyes in the NW jungle, as expected

T74 - 1040BC
Clams in the NW corner

T75 - 1000BC
Domestic TRs now 10cpt

T76 - 975BC
Barb copper city Phrygian has 3 axe defenders...

No Oracle yet.

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PAUSE: to determine what to do with Gems/Pigs MM next. Poprushing the settler now might cost too much in maintenance to get Phood on time.

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T77 - 950BC

T78 - 925BC

Horses spotted just past Phrygian

T79 - 900BC Pyramids done

The Oracle FIDL

T80 -875BC Save Uploaded


Log:

The Wizard of Oz is still alive.

LowtherCastle said:

Our northern wb sees Lizzie's culture. I'm pausing to check (or hear from you guys) whether or not this means we can now get TRs from Lizzie.

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Not yet, but soon, hopefully.

LowtherCastle said:

Has this changed from vanilla? It was not only a known fact of life, but it happened to me.

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I have a vague memory of ties being patched out. I can't find it in any patch notes, and the current vanilla code matches BtS for this behaviour, at least.

ZPV said:

Not yet, but soon, hopefully.

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According to this post by DanF, we now should have have TR capability with LIzzie and conceivably also with GK, if they have touching borders.

LowtherCastle said:

According to this post by DanF, we now should have have TR capability with LIzzie and conceivably also with GK, if they have touching borders.

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There's an easy way to tell. One of the map options is "show trade networks".
As far as I can tell, we need a "port" onto Liz's land to get the TRs - either a river ends, or we can see up to a coastal English tile and she has a coastal city connected to it.

ZPV said:

There's an easy way to tell. One of the map options is "show trade networks".
As far as I can tell, we need a "port" onto Liz's land to get the TRs - either a river ends, or we can see up to a coastal English tile and she has a coastal city connected to it.

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Okay. DanF must have been ignoring that detail. I can't get it to work in a test game, confirming your interpretation.

Paused to decide when we can poprush the Ivory settler without endangering PHood. No Oracle yet. The Wizard of Oz is still alive. The barb city has 3 axe defenders...

Save uploaded

Playing again

I played to 875BC. Unfortunately, the Oracle was BIFL at the last possible moment. Figures. Maybe we should have set up PHood to complete in 1t instead of two or something, to stop the AI from cheating. Anyway, onward we go.

Save uploaded.

Here's a test save. Didn't update the land.

No worried about The Oracle. Yaaaa, we got The Pyramids! Let's celebrate since we met our goal!!!

I haven't looked at the saved game, but presumably, we can put 2 Chops into an immediate Granary. One more Chop and/or a whip could net us a Monument. Does that situation sound accurate?

Looking at an old saved game of the area from my turnset, it seems that we have a Clam and a Magical Fish that will need to be connected (Magical Fish for Ivory City and Clam for Pigs City). Will we have Ivory City building the Work Boats?

Good work, LC.

It's ok about Oracle. That was a real stretch anyway.

Wonder what we could put the chops into now. I guess granary/library as a default. We're also not settling on marble. Should we settle 1W or take the settler back to a different spot?

I can take this TS. Should be able to manage my time better after the last two weeks.

Edit: xpost w Dhoom

I see the scout got through. Let's keep him alive for a long time now...

Also, where are we thinking of settling Silver City?

On the Desert Hills square (SE + S of the Grassland Pig) lets us share 2 Grassland squares with Stone City and a 3rd extra Grassland square that we would not settle on top of. Those could be Farmed post-Civil-Service if we plan to make Silver City a late-game Great Person Farm with the National Epic. It'll take a while to get that City set up, though. If we're building the National Epic in Washington (yaaa +1 Forest at Washington!!!) to partner with The Great Library, then we really don't need to worry about this possibility of getting a tiny bit more Food once this City is large.

On the Grassland square 1N of the Desert Hills square (1SE of the Grassland Pig) nets us an extra Grassland Hills square and a Desert Hills square for additional production, while still having a ton of Food. It would make for a very solid Moai Statues City, as we'd always want to be working the Magical Fish plus 2 Lake squares and would have 8 additional water squares for a total of 11 Moai-enhanced squares. The City can grow quickly enough and has enough Mineable squares and Forest Chops to get Moai set up really quickly, giving us another coastal production centre. Since the Silver is on Ice, we don't necessarily need a Library, but with Silver plus the Magical Fish and 2 Lakes, it's probably not a bad idea to build one sometime after completing Moai there.

babybluepants said:

Wonder what we could put the chops into now. I guess granary/library as a default.

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I think that we're skipping a Library in Ivory City since it's our production powerhouse and also doesn't have a ton of excess Food to simultaneously grow while working Specialists.

babybluepants said:

We're also not settling on marble. Should we settle 1W or take the settler back to a different spot?

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Again, using my old screenshot:

I think that we have three options:
a) On the Marble. No point for a short-term connection but it does save us a few Worker turns in terms of getting Marble connected in time for building The Great Library and the National Epic. I think that we should be able to spare the Worker turns, so I don't really like this option

b) 1W of the Marble on the GRiv. This option gets my vote. We can share the Corn to allow for getting this City up-to-speed relatively quickly (perhaps whipping a Monument and Chopping into a Granary?)

c) 1S of the Marble on the GHRiv. We waste a nice GHRiv square but we can get a very quick bridge connection without needing Bridge City. As shyuhe pointed out earlier, though, Bridge City's connection would allow for the most efficient route for Galleys coming from our western area to reach the AIs to the south. We would be a bit closer to an AI for the chance of getting Buddhism spreading to us, but I'm not worried about that possibility. We would also miss out on a Desert Hills square and a couple of Grassland squares. The nearby Chops might also end up going to Washington instead of to Marble City, due to the further distance of settling away from the Chops and at best, the Chops would still go to Marble City but would be worth less Hammers.


EDIT: I don't see much point in sending the Settler to another location. If I understand things correctly, our Settler should already be on top of the Marble; no point spending a few turns walking to a different location, particularly if we pick option b) above, which lets us get working an improved square from the start, at least until we get a second improved square that Marble City could potentially switch to if Washington needs its Corn back.

Nice work LC! Having our cities connected via the northern exploration of our land mass was a great idea. Losing out on the Oracle is a bummer (missed by one turn, right?). It was a lot closer that I thought it would be... The only thing we're really out are the turns it took to research PH (we needed Poly anyway for Literature).

Now we need to start leveraging what we do have. We need foreign trade routes to take full advantage of the GLH (which should happen next turn I hope) and scientists to get the +3 Representation bonus.

Are we beelining Literature next for the GLib followed by Construction while our cities mature in preparation for war?

Question about foreign trade routes: Once we've established them with Liz, do we automatically get them with GK too? Or do we have to explore GK's area separately in order to get TRs with him? Is that the "touching borders" thing the LC mentioned above?