v20 bugs and crashes

Dancing Hoskuld

Dancing Hoskuld

Deity
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
23,562
Location
Canberra, Australia
Please report all errors with v20 here.

Since I was not able to keep up with the bug list in v19 I am not going to attempt it here.
 
Minor issues before I start to test in earnest

1) Shouldn't Fire Hydrants require a resevor or pumping station?

2) Shouldn't the fire brigade buildings upgrade each other rather than going obsolete. Especially now we have flamibility. (I asked Afforess why he did not make that way to start with, his response was he was to lazy at the time.)

3) Tin is too frequent and Fine Clay is not frequent enough - I am about to test a fix. ;)

4) Marine Institute is giving espionage rather than science - fix soon.

5) Some movies are not playing - I think we have the lost movie XML problem again. I will look into it.

6) I did not get to all the resource icons for the city screen for this version.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
Minor issues before I start to test in earnest

1) Shouldn't Fire Hydrants require a resevor or pumping station?

2) Shouldn't the fire brigade buildings upgrade each other rather than going obsolete. Especially now we have flamibility. (I asked Afforess why he did not make that way to start with, his response was he was to lazy at the time.)

3) Tin is too frequent and Fine Clay is not frequent enough - I am about to test a fix. ;)

4) Marine Institute is giving espionage rather than science - fix soon.

5) Some movies are not playing - I think we have the lost movie XML problem again. I will look into it.

6) I did not get to all the resource icons for the city screen for this version.
Click to expand...

1. Good Idea. I will fix.

2. Ok I will have fire brigades update to fire station and then go obsolete later.

3. Sound logical to me. Go for it.

4. I assume that's your building and not my Aquarium.

5. :(

6. So you going to add them after the freeze then?
 
The path mechanism has changed, whereas I could predict where my workers would build roads now I can't. Before if it was a straight line between two points horizontally or vertically my gatherers would build a cart path in a straight line now they zigzag. Same thing happens when my modern workers are putting railways through new territory.

While the path is the same length it makes building efficient roads to connect a number of resources awkward.

There is a similar but not as bad problem with the explorers.

Hydromancerx said:
4. I assume that's your building and not my Aquarium.
Click to expand...

Yes the Marine Institute can be built by subdued whales, sharks etc. when you have a University and Aquarium in the same city. They are in v20. I have 3 more for later which I am still testing. There should now be enough buildings for the most successful hunt. ;)

Hydromancerx said:
6. So you going to add them after the freeze then?
Click to expand...

It is boring. I can do 2-5 in a day if I am not working on anything else and you keep adding more which need the icon. I am just shrinking the button icon to the size needed for the font but it still needs testing out.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
The path mechanism has changed, whereas I could predict where my workers would build roads now I can't. Before if it was a straight line between two points horizontally or vertically my gatherers would build a cart path in a straight line now they zigzag. Same thing happens when my modern workers are putting railways through new territory.

While the path is the same length it makes building efficient roads to connect a number of resources awkward.

There is a similar but not as bad problem with the explorers.
Click to expand...

Could you post me an image of such a route please.
 
Missing unit text. see image.

Koshling said:
Could you post me an image of such a route please.
Click to expand...

Gah, I have just finished building cart paths every where. The problem with trying to capture the image is that the proposed route only has a kink in the first step but if you build a long road it actually kinks all the way.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
Missing unit text. see image.



Gah, I have just finished building cart paths every where. The problem with trying to capture the image is that the proposed route only has a kink in the first step but if you build a long road it actually kinks all the way.
Click to expand...

Er..wrong image I think. But to clarify the case that shows up the issue (so I can generate a simple test case), it's at its worst when the two points being linked (2 cities say) are some way apart and share a common X or Y coordinate (so they are in cardinal directiosn from one another)?

Edit - I've done a little experimentation, and I know why it does what it does and can offer several tweaks (details and my own preference below).

In each of the following - represents a tile (assumed all to be featureless and hence equally routable), X represents the end points (cities to route together say), and R represents the route built.

Current SVN (this is a result of recent changes):
Code: 
---------
---R-----
--R-R-R--
-X---R-X-
---------
With a small tweak (my recommendation):
Code: 
---------
--R-R-R--
-X-R-R-X-
---------
With a different tweak (probably how it used to be, but not sure):
Code: 
---------
-XRRRRRX-
---------

All of them have the same path length (6 steps from city to city). The first seems rather weird (so I agree we should definately change from that option, which is what the current SVN does). The second is actually tactically the best I think (the vertical oscillation means when you come to join up further targets to north or south you have a good chance of the result needing one less extra tile routing). The third is the most 'natural' (but as noted above is likely to cost more in the long run when you add in extra cities).

What does eveyone think? Unless I hear objections I'll push a small tweak to go from (1) to (2) which means routes in cardinal direction will 'wobble', but actually that has tactical advantages so I like it.
 
Koshling said:
Er..wrong image I think. But to clarify the case that shows up the issue (so I can generate a simple test case), it's at its worst when the two points being linked (2 cities say) are some way apart and share a common X or Y coordinate (so they are in cardinal directiosn from one another)?
Click to expand...

That was the image for the text problem. Hypothetical, one city, tile directly south has resource and does the plot below. Get your gatherer to build road south to second plot and it will zigzag around the plot directly to the south. Attached is a movement path showing similar zigzagging. I suspect that the rout is the longest it can build in the shortest time but that is just a guess.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
That was the image for the text problem. Hypothetical, one city, tile directly south has resource and does the plot below. Get your gatherer to build road south to second plot and it will zigzag around the plot directly to the south. Attached is a movement path showing similar zigzagging. I suspect that the rout is the longest it can build in the shortest time but that is just a guess.
Click to expand...

See my edit above.
 
Question: is the worker in the 1st ex. trying to build along the "safest" route? Are hills and forests pulling them?

And an observation: After I updated to revision 1495 this morning I noticed that a set of my early destroyers were now taking zig zag paths to the tile I selected for them to go. They were Not doing that in revision 1384 which I used last night when I sent them on their way to reinforce. They have a multiple turn path set around a continental peninsula.

I can't think of any objection to #2 at the moment. But give me some time and I probably will. :mischief:
So later on I can make the C2C team go :cringe: when I say :nono:
:lol:
JosEPh :p
 
JosEPh_II said:
Question: is the worker in the 1st ex. trying to build along the "safest" route? Are hills and forests pulling them?

And an observation: After I updated to revision 1495 this morning I noticed that a set of my early destroyers were now taking zig zag paths to the tile I selected for them to go. They were Not doing that in revision 1384 which I used last night when I sent them on their way to reinforce. They have a multiple turn path set around a continental peninsula.

I can't think of any objection to #2 at the moment. But give me some time and I probably will. :mischief:
So later on I can make the C2C team go :cringe: when I say :nono:
:lol:
JosEPh :p
Click to expand...

Yeh - one of the optimizations had the side effect that it prefers diaganols to cardinal direction moves, all other things being equal. The distortion of a rectilinear map (as opposed to a hex map) causes that preference to result in the zig-zags (which are no longer if tile count terms). I'll be weakening that preference later today in line with my otpion (2) above - you'll still see zig-zags to an extent, bu they will be small-scale zigs and zags not large ones.

Also my examples were all tested on pure flat grassland. Terrain/features/enemies tec. that add moveemnt cost (or that it wants to avoid for safey) have always (and will copntinue to) cause path distortions to minimize overall cost.
 
I am finding that there are still problems with the path for worker units. They will leave cultural borders and end turns/build roads in the wilderness on some paths.

Why can't my subdued dolphin move out of the friendly city at the south pole? Similarly the subdued squid near there cant move into friendly territory. I have open borders! No problem moving into my own territory near the north pole.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
I am finding that there are still problems with the path for worker units. They will leave cultural borders and end turns/build roads in the wilderness on some paths.

Why can't my subdued dolphin move out of the friendly city at the south pole? Similarly the subdued squid near there cant move into friendly territory. I have open borders! No problem moving into my own territory near the north pole.
Click to expand...

I'm timed out for tonight, and won't have any C2C time tomorrow, but I should be able to take a look at the save and see why the dolphin has issues on Sunday. Can't comment on the worker-in-wilderness without a concrete example I'm afraid, but I doubt it's something (at least something related to pathing changes) that couldn't happen previously (though the pathing changes might allow it to happen in slightly different circumstances than it would have before).
 
Here is a list of unit button/icons that need to be fixed ...

- F14 Corsair
- P51 Mustang
- P59
- F111 Aardvark
- F4 Phantom
- F104 Star Fighter
- F16 Falcon
- F14 Tomcat
- F22 Raptor
- F18 Hornet
- B1 Lancer
- Hell's Mouth Dog
- Sniper
- Modern Sniper
- Assault Ship
- U Boat
- Navy Seal (Duplicate)
- Waka (Duplicate)
- Mob Car
- Healer
- Apothecary
- Surgeon
- Horse Crossbowman (Duplicate)
- Cog Merchant
- Carrack Merchant
- Liberty Merchant
- Cargo Ship Merchant
- Coast Guard Cutter

Most of these do not have the alpha layer so they look square rather than rounded like buttons should be.

EDIT: I am having trouble finding where the buttons for these are. Could someone point me in the right direction. I have been looking in the Unit.FPK and the DancingH_0.FPK.

EDIT2: Nevermind, I found them under "Interface".
 
A few turns after the dolphin problem I get a CTD saying reduce my graphics but when I do it still crashes displaying the diplomacy screen Mansa M.

Ignore I did not have the latest dll.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
I am finding that there are still problems with the path for worker units. They will leave cultural borders and end turns/build roads in the wilderness on some paths.

Why can't my subdued dolphin move out of the friendly city at the south pole? Similarly the subdued squid near there cant move into friendly territory. I have open borders! No problem moving into my own territory near the north pole.
Click to expand...

Turns out this is unrelated to any recent pathing changes. The reason you cannot move the dolphin out of the city is because doing so would reveal the ocean plot 2 tiles NE of the city, and subdued animals are set to noReveal.

It does make me wonder how you got it there in the first place though...?
 
Koshling said:
Turns out this is unrelated to any recent pathing changes. The reason you cannot move the dolphin out of the city is because doing so would reveal the ocean plot 2 tiles NE of the city, and subdued animals are set to noReveal.

It does make me wonder how you got it there in the first place though...?
Click to expand...

The problem went away later in the game. I wonder if I had built something that gave units a larger sight range then it went obsolete.:confused: Thanks for looking into it.
 
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