[MOD] The Authentic Colonization (TAC)
- Thread starter Writing Bull
- Start date
Androrc the Orc
Emperor
TAC provides their DLL source, so you could make the necessary changes and then compile your modified DLL, and then you could play with that feature.
raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
Waiting for RaR ? Yes, but as it can be months away, I better not, sorry
Religion and Revolution Release 1 is supposed to be available for public a few weeks after TAC 2.03 (which is the next and final release of TAC).
So you would be waiting almost as long for TAC 2.03 as you would for our release.
There is no real difference considering "waiting time".
raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
That is true of course.
You could take the sources of TAC 2.02d and start programming your own features based on that.
(... and later do a merge with TAC 2.03.)
The addition I like most is the addition of random events and quests. Honestly, that was the biggest mess up I feel from the Firaxis team.
It's such a good concept to a game and keeps a game interesting, so why not use it?!? But anyway, thank you for putting it back into the Colonization game!
It's such a good concept to a game and keeps a game interesting, so why not use it?!? But anyway, thank you for putting it back into the Colonization game!
Writing Bull
Warlord
For every feature you first of all need a modder interested and able to implement it ...
Of course, the rest of the team needs to put efforts into such a feature too, for Testing, Balancing, Texts and Graphics.
Implementing good features takes time and effort.
So the question "Why is this not part of TAC ?" can often simply be answered by "Because it wasn't implemented.".
Since TAC base mod will end after the next release,
discussions about adding further features within TAC project itself are pretty much useless.
What else is there to say.
Yes!
Vorpal+5
Venturing in Erebus
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
- Messages
- 658
I'm not too sure about meddling with the DLL. I code occasionally in c++ but I never assembled some source into a working DLL, is it hard, or I just to hit F7 (for compile under VS C++) and DLL will be created?
Also I prefer to only work with XML when modding, but that's another story altogether
Question still left unanswered, is the AI hard coded to not expand past a certain number of cities?
Additional question, what will happen to my tax rate once I'm fighting for independence? Will I still get the silly king taxes on top of my custom house trade? I'm currently at 70%!
Also I prefer to only work with XML when modding, but that's another story altogether
Question still left unanswered, is the AI hard coded to not expand past a certain number of cities?
Additional question, what will happen to my tax rate once I'm fighting for independence? Will I still get the silly king taxes on top of my custom house trade? I'm currently at 70%!
raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
Vorpal+5
Venturing in Erebus
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
- Messages
- 658
Argh... that's awful... I'll suffer from the high taxes from the king while being independent. This is bad, really bad 
That mean that there is no strategy during the course of play except always submitting to the King's demands, otherwise you get penalized even while being independent by a crippling tax rate. I thought I could sell to the Indians while waiting for the tax rate to disappear when I declare independence, it seems not. What a weird design decision of the TAC team, and an historical nonsense!
As much as I appreciate all the work done by the TAC team, I think that at the very least, if this is a question of game balance, that when independence is declared, the tax impacted should be capped to a reasonable level, let's say 50%, this can represent the overhead cost of smuggling goods to Europe. But really, keeping the same exact king taxation level is ... suboptimal, to put it politely.
That mean that there is no strategy during the course of play except always submitting to the King's demands, otherwise you get penalized even while being independent by a crippling tax rate. I thought I could sell to the Indians while waiting for the tax rate to disappear when I declare independence, it seems not. What a weird design decision of the TAC team, and an historical nonsense!
As much as I appreciate all the work done by the TAC team, I think that at the very least, if this is a question of game balance, that when independence is declared, the tax impacted should be capped to a reasonable level, let's say 50%, this can represent the overhead cost of smuggling goods to Europe. But really, keeping the same exact king taxation level is ... suboptimal, to put it politely.
raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
Argh... that's awful... I'll suffer from the high taxes from the king while being independent. This is bad, really bad
That mean that there is no strategy during the course of play except always submitting to the King's demands, otherwise you get penalized even while being independent by a crippling tax rate. I thought I could sell to the Indians while waiting for the tax rate to disappear when I declare independence, it seems not. What a weird design decision of the TAC team, and an historical nonsense!
As much as I appreciate all the work done by the TAC team, I think that at the very least, if this is a question of game balance, that when independence is declared, the tax impacted should be capped to a reasonable level, let's say 50%, this can represent the overhead cost of smuggling goods to Europe. But really, keeping the same exact king taxation level is ... suboptimal, to put it politely.
I personaly see this totally different.
The "traders" buying the goods from your customhouses still need to pay the same taxes in the mother country.
They simply hand them through to you.
So why should they suddenly pay you higher prices for your goods, if they still pay the same taxes in the mother country ?
Please excuse but simply because you think, that something should / must work a certain way, this doesn't mean it is the only truth.
(There might be many different opinions and ways to look at it.)
Please slow down with phrases like "weird" and "nonsense".
Karl-Heinz
aka Akropolis
After declaring independent you hardly need money anymore and earn enough to run you colonies.
Vorpal+5
Venturing in Erebus
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
- Messages
- 658
I personaly see this totally different.
The "traders" buying the goods from your customhouses still need to pay the same taxes in the mother country.
They simply hand them through to you.
So why should they suddenly pay you higher prices for your goods, if they still pay the same taxes in the mother country ?
Please excuse but simply because you think, that something should / must work a certain way, this doesn't mean it is the only truth.
(There might be many different opinions and ways to look at it.)
Please slow down with phrases like "weird" and "nonsense".
Indeed, but the same applies to you, this is not because you think it is right, that it is right.
I tried hard for 10 mn to see if your view was the best of the two, but sorry I failed. Have you done the same for me, or did you discard at once my opinion? Have you tried hard to imagine that may be, your way of seeing is not the most logical way, for this particular feature?I guess you are also happy that the market behave in a non nonsensical way (not an insult, sorry!), unless you tell me that it is normal that selling 800 cigars alter the price of tools, right?
As for the King's tax, let me rephrase (or repeat). The facts are what, let's get to the basics...
The King ask you money, if you refuse, the tax raise. Sometime he also raises the tax, for various reason, like sustaining his navy etc. De facto so, the tax level is strongly tied to the policy of the King of your mother country toward the colony, specifically. It does not mean that the taxation level is the same between the mother country and say Prussia is the same. Historically, tax on import could differs for each country, it depended totally of the foreign policy toward said country.
Then you declare independence. You are free from anything the King imposes of you. If you manage to sell merchandises to Europe, it can be to any country you can reach. Prussia, Austria, Venice, England (if you play Spain or France), etc. But still, you still suffer from the same exact tax. Just try to give me an historical, valid reason to that!
So sorry, I'll keep using the word non sense, or if you prefer 'lack of logic'.
Now, my second point, equally valid, about why the tax level should not be exactly the same. Not changing this tax level when you get independence leads to a poorer game design, because it removes one option from the panel of strategies you can imagine when dealing with the King. Why? Because as this is the same tax level in the end, you don't have any choice but to say yes to the King, each time, while you are a small colony. Failing to do so result in very high long term taxes, even when independent. The only viable strategy is thus to maintain as low as possible the tax level, so that during independence it is still valid to trade with Europe.
As for not needing money during independence, I beg to differ. When you play on highest difficulty, with a King's army of 600 personnels, speeding up various buildings or artilleries, or forming specialists or veterans still costs a lot of money and is very necessary to beat the King.
Again, everyone is allowed an opinion, this includes you, this includes me. I think you are wrong. Perhaps I'm wrong in that
but still, this is my opinion and I have the right to express it. 
raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
Of course.
But there are different ways of formulating considering emotionality and politeness.
I totally accept that you have a different opinion here.
I am not saying that you are wrong, but depending on the way you look at it others might have there own personal "right opinion".
Modding simply is not about being "wrong" or "right", because there is no "one and only truth".
----------
I am sure, the TAC team has heard and understood your argumentation.
Everything else is in their hands (or in the hands of any other modder interested to change these things).
Vorpal+5
Venturing in Erebus
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
- Messages
- 658
This is not really aimed toward the TAC team, as I know the mod will be closed soon. So perhaps I should have this discussion with you in the RAR forum, as this will be the next 'ultimate' mod when TAC is final.
As it seems, RAR will keep this King taxation scheme, as you are one of the two persons of importance in doing it.
I'm currently playing TAC 2.02d because this is the most complete, stable, mod currently, and the ground on which you work on RAR. But really, you should understand that what I say about TAC currently is not really aimed to TAC, I don't think my input will alter the final content of TAC 2.03. It is aimed toward the future, i.e RAR. By saying what I like, dislike in TAC, perhaps you can realize that RAR can do differently. Perhaps not!
As it seems, RAR will keep this King taxation scheme, as you are one of the two persons of importance in doing it.
I'm currently playing TAC 2.02d because this is the most complete, stable, mod currently, and the ground on which you work on RAR. But really, you should understand that what I say about TAC currently is not really aimed to TAC, I don't think my input will alter the final content of TAC 2.03. It is aimed toward the future, i.e RAR. By saying what I like, dislike in TAC, perhaps you can realize that RAR can do differently. Perhaps not!
raystuttgart
Civ4Col Modder
Then it would really be better to discuss these things in the forum of Religion and Revolution.
([Religion and Revolution]: Mod Development)
Writing Bull
Warlord
Sorry, but I believe that you have ignored an important feature of TAC. The tax rate can't exceed a maximum limit. You can lower that maximum tax rate if you fulfill the financial requirements of your King. Thusly it remains attractive to export goods to Europe.
I believe Karl-Heinz (aka Akropolis, member of TAC team) has asked the right question. And the benchmark for our balancing is the default level of difficulty. If you play a higher level and if you have problems to defeat the king, please choose a lower level. This will be the best solution - and not to change the rules.
Androrc the Orc
Emperor
Writing Bull, just thought I'd comment that I find your name rather cleverly chosen
Writing Bull
Warlord
Muito obrigado! 
Vorpal+5
Venturing in Erebus
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
- Messages
- 658
Hi again,
Continuing my Gigantic-Epic TAC Game... I have a question, I'm unsure it is not just a standard feature or a TAC one though...
I have some native tribes that have huge penalties on 'your way of life threaten us', like a -9 toward me, and yet I have not settled anywhere near them! So I was wondering:
a) Are roads passing in their village also a bother for them?
b) If I'm powerful, anywhere on map, do they get the penalty, just because I'm strong, even if not near them?
Continuing my Gigantic-Epic TAC Game... I have a question, I'm unsure it is not just a standard feature or a TAC one though...
I have some native tribes that have huge penalties on 'your way of life threaten us', like a -9 toward me, and yet I have not settled anywhere near them! So I was wondering:
a) Are roads passing in their village also a bother for them?
b) If I'm powerful, anywhere on map, do they get the penalty, just because I'm strong, even if not near them?
1. If you lose Your capital city - the 1st you estabilish in new world - you won't be able to buy indian troops any more, since they always tend to appear in there.
2. Overpowered offence / underpowered defence, defence structures and terrain bonuses. Example: lateley my defending forces counting: 8 cannons, 4 cannon garrisons, 2 musketmen and a cruiser behind a stockade with 25% bonus from a hill + fortification bonus were crushed by Portugese forces counting 12 cannons + a musketman and cruiser. I was able to defend for 2 rounds only. My entire cannon and c. garrison army was swiped out immedietely winnig only 1 or 2 clashes. After loosing my city I assembled a new army in a few rounds and recaptured it easily with an army not stronger that the one defeated! Btw. cannons themselves are overpowered!
3. Trade ships taking silly routes when leaving for Europe through enemy territory or closing dangerously making them easy targets for privaters and war ships during war time.
4. News of other nation declaring independence sholud be more visible than just a regular up-screen info. A pause screen for example would be a welcome idea.
Above may be flaws of a original game not a trait of this mod which a find excellent. It made the game not only playable (at last!) but most of all wonderfully balanced and greately entertaining. Thank You for Your immense work!
2. Overpowered offence / underpowered defence, defence structures and terrain bonuses. Example: lateley my defending forces counting: 8 cannons, 4 cannon garrisons, 2 musketmen and a cruiser behind a stockade with 25% bonus from a hill + fortification bonus were crushed by Portugese forces counting 12 cannons + a musketman and cruiser. I was able to defend for 2 rounds only. My entire cannon and c. garrison army was swiped out immedietely winnig only 1 or 2 clashes. After loosing my city I assembled a new army in a few rounds and recaptured it easily with an army not stronger that the one defeated! Btw. cannons themselves are overpowered!
3. Trade ships taking silly routes when leaving for Europe through enemy territory or closing dangerously making them easy targets for privaters and war ships during war time.
4. News of other nation declaring independence sholud be more visible than just a regular up-screen info. A pause screen for example would be a welcome idea.
Above may be flaws of a original game not a trait of this mod which a find excellent. It made the game not only playable (at last!) but most of all wonderfully balanced and greately entertaining. Thank You for Your immense work!
