Hermetic Lore for FFH DI5

Hello Gods, it looks like a Lugus would be useful in this game. This looks like a lot of fun, would it be acceptable for me to take that role this late?

And if so, could somebody provide me with a version of the mod being used? It looks like the recently updated MagisterMod is incompatible with the current save.
 
You want the previous version of the MagisterModMod, not the current one. The current one breaks savegame compatibility with the one we're using.
 
Derf,

If Verdian is careless enough to let a harbinger settle amongst his people, I expect that fighting among the populace is sure to increase. If he does let him stay, then I was thinking of something along the following lines for the opening into the next chapter of the Mega Plot,
"He'd been warned about the audiences in Aerie. Enough bards had left that city with broken instruments or broken fingers as payment for their songs. Some said, the extra aggression was to be expected given a population of young men who'd been uprooted from their homes and forced to carve a new life for themselves in a strange place. Those who'd toured there longest said the problems only got very nasty in the last few years. They pinpointed the start of the trouble to the arrival in town of the "harbinger", Lothbrok."

Would that be okay with you?
 
To be fair, I never specifically said he was a harbinger - he has the appearance of them, but he claims to work on behalf of them.
That said, I see no problem with the extra aggression, but perhaps nudge Verdian into pinpointing the trouble - give him a few hints, a suggestion or two, but let him draw the conclusion. If he figures wrongly... well, the people suffer a bit, there's more chance for fighting. If he does, then he chances Camulos' reaction to whatever he does to Lothbrok personally.
I think that would work just a bit better, giving more chances for a little mayhem. On a small scale, of course.
 
You want the previous version of the MagisterModMod, not the current one. The current one breaks savegame compatibility with the one we're using.
Click to expand...

I figured as much, I was hoping somebody could upload the version being used or tell me what the version is. I asked Magister where I could get the previous version and recieved this response

When I posted my modmod I did not host it somewhere, but rather just attached the zip archives to the opening post of my modmod. I removed those attachments when I uploaded the new one. (The connection kept timing out when I tried adding the new attachments to the post before removing the old ones.) As such, I don't think I can provide a link. I would have to upload the files again. I cannot upload anything to a private message, but I could upload it to a post in that game's thread if you wish.

I'm not completely sure which version they are using for that game. I would guess it is the April 19th release, but I'd like confirmation before uploading anything. You should be able to get someone in that game to check the credits tab of the BUG menu to find out.

I do not have complete copies of old versions saved to my computer, but I do have the installers for the April 19th, March 28, March 27th, and March 21 releases.

There are some rather annoying bugs in the previous version (mostly in Tholal's DLL), so unless you really care about the game in progress I'd recommend that everyone move on to the newest release.

I might release another update in a day or two, but it should be minor enough to be compatible with saves from the current version.
Click to expand...

In the meantime, I'll be brushing up on lore. I haven't played a game like this before so I might try to get some coaching for the first turn or two.
 
Welcome zbelg. It will be nice to have Lugus shining his little lights and revealing just how much darkness is out there.;)

Attached are the files that should allow you to get involved in the story.
 
Excellent, the save works fine and this looks like a good game for Lugus.

Spoiler :
My idea for Lugus is rather than to demand and reward loyalty, give aid if the player allows it. I'll give visions to provide a counter the deceptions of Esus and other forces of evil and try to help the player avoid the wrong path. The visions will become more clear if the player correctly interprets my instructions. If the player offends me, my punishment will simply be to forsake the player and allow him to be consumed by darkness as I help a different people.

Obviously, I want to do this without actually stepping on any of the other god players toes. To what extent should I be aware of the other gods plans?

For now, a simple quest I'd like to give the player is to open borders with either the Amurites or the Bannor. Partially, to counter the seeds of distrust from Esus, and more importantly, to allow the player to explore the continent. If the player does this, I will reveal Golden Leane and the Mirror of Heaven to the player, and see how he proceeds from there. Because that doesn't seem like enough of a reward, I'll probably give a Sentry promotion to a unit or two if the quest is satisfied soon enough.

The Mirror of Heaven looks to be doomed to fall into the hands of the Calabim. Just so I can be aware of how I can counteract the actions of the other gods, if the player were to secure the Mirror of Heaven and the angel is still there, can I remove the angel from the spot because it was planted at the behest of another good god?
 
My (Camulos) plans are fairly simple and straightforward at the moment. War, Chaos and strife through whatever means interest me at the moment.
So far, the world in general knows that if they appeal to Camulos they'll always be heard. If and how he responds is entirely up to him.
The rest is fairly open for now, just have a glance at my posts in the main thread and you'll have a fair idea.

Not too sure on the Angels, I put them in at the behest of another god (Sorry! Can't remember who it was that asked) so they are their angels and not mine. I believe they were put in place to protect various landmarks from others such as the Calabim.
 
I think they're Sirona's, aren't they?

By the way, what do people think of my idea to give the Great Scientist for almost completing the quest, but at the cost of some population because he didn't quite make it?
 
I wouldn't be too keen on it myself. Unless one of us gives him a settler, he'll need all the pop he can get to keep up with the other civs, and even then I reckon he'll find them quickly outpacing him because of his self-imposed rule regarding his not building them.

On that, does anyone actually plan to give him one? Quite a few of the other civs have two cities; perhaps someone should show a little benevolence to the Kuriotates too?
(Please someone do, I have a little plot for it that I can't start without a second city!)
 
The fact that it will put him back is sort of the point, it would hardly be a reduction of the reward otherwise. :p But I see what you mean.

As for the settlers, I suppose I could change my reward to a settler, but that would be really odd and wouldn't really work well. I could explain it in-story by saying the person whose mind Ceridwen touched wants to found a second city with other people with scientific/magical interest, but it would not work as a reduced reward, as it is more of an increase in reward.

I did toy with the idea of questing him to research Way of the Wicked with a Settler as reward for this segment, but since my current quest hasn't been completed yet and Esus has already given a research quest, I don't think it would not be a good idea.
 
If he accomplishes my Open Borders quest, a settler reward would make sense as refugees from Amurite/Bannor lands. It may be a bit too much of a reward unless he secures open borders from them both. Although Exploration - Cartography would be out of the way for Esus's quest as well, I'm going to play through and see if either the Amurites or the Bannor go for the tech themselves and how willing they are to open borders.

Do you guys think it's better to be up front about the rewards of the quests, or leave the reward to be a mystery?
 
Up to you :D
I favour the mystery. It allows you the freedom to adapt to how he handles something as well as what other gods are doing.
Most of the other gods who have offered quests so far seem to prefer being open about it though.
 
@zbelg

Encouraging open borders and rewarding by revealing the map seems very appropriate for Lugus.

If you do reveal the Mirror, it opens the door for a pilgrimage quest to reach the Mirror.

Something you might want to consider next time is trying to encourage Verdian to develop towards Way of the Wise. That's a pretty defining tech to encourage him to be one of the good guys.

The Angel on the Mirror was placed there for Elder Methyl (Sirona). He had stated that he planned for Sirona to be working with Lugus. The Mirror really is a Lugus holy site so I'd reckon your preference for how it would be dealt with would be respected. As Verdian has not discovered it yet, relocating it to an alternative place on the map is still an option.

---

I second Derf's request for someone to give him a Settler. This is a summary of how the other civs are doing:
Spoiler :

Lanun led by Falamar (142 points)
Cities: *Innsmouth (6 pop)
Techs: Agriculture, Ancient Chants, Fishing, Mining, Mysticism, Sailing.
Researching: Education (6 turns)

Elohim led by Einion Logos (137)
Cities: *Cahir Abbey (6), Glens of Killybegs (4) & Inishbofin (1)
Techs: Agriculture, Ancient Chants, Crafting, Knowledge of Ether, Mysticism.
Researching: Exploration (3)

Clan of Embers led by Sheelba (137)
Cities: *Braduk the Burning (6), Renegade Hill (4) & Shazak (1)
Techs: Agriculture, Ancient Chants, Calendar, Crafting, Mysticism.
Researching: Exploration (4)

Calabim led by Flauros (134)
Cities: *Prespur (6) & Nubia (3)
Techs: Agriculture, Ancient Chants, Calendar, Education, Exploration, Mysticism.
Researching: ?

Luchuirp led by Beeri Bawl (131)
Cities: *Ithralia (7), Mutanbo (1) & Tia Ran (1)
Techs: Agriculture, Ancient Chants, Education, Exploration, Mysticism.
Researching: Calendar (3)

Bannor led by Sabathiel (130)
Cities: *Torrelerial (7)
Techs: Agriculture, Ancient Chants, Crafting, Exploration, Mysticism.
Researching: KoE (8)
(just realised that Rabish accidentally misled Dallarin, might need to edit the story)

Malakim led by Decius (128)
Cities: *Golden Leane (5), Timberling (2)
Techs: Agriculture, Ancient Chants, Animal Husbandry, Crafting, KoE, Mysticism.
Researching: Alteration (47)

Svartalfar led by Faeryl Viconia (128)
Cities: *Thariss (6), Gereth Minor (4)
Techs: Agriculture, Ancient Chants, Education, Exploration, Mysticism.
Researching: Calendar (1)

Balseraphs led by Perpentach (119)
Cities: *Jubilee (2), Coombe View (3)
Techs: Agriculture, Ancient Chants, Calendar Crafting, Mysticism.
Researching: Festivals (3)

Sidar led by Sandalphon (101)
Cities: *Celo (6), Vetus (1)
Techs: Agriculture, Ancient Chants, Crafting, Education, Mysticism.
Researching: ?

Grigori led by Cassiel (100)
Cities: *Midgar(5)
Techs: Agriculture, Ancient Chants, Crafting, Education, Mysticism.
Researching: KoE (7)

Kuriotates led by Dallarin (95)
Cities: *Aerie(5)
Researching: KoE (23)

Amurites led by Valledia the Even (94)
Cities: *Cevedes (4)
Techs: Agriculture, Ancient Chants, Crafting, Mysticism.
Researching: Education

Verdian is almost at the bottom of the pile so I wouldn't go reducing his population.

Diplomacy wise, the picture shows what it looks like for those considering tweaking international relations.
 
What if I combined giving him a settler with the lowered population? In that way, I am hurting him in the short term, which will make the reward lower and more approppriate, yet also helping him catch up in the mid-term, as a second city will really help.
 
zbelg said:
If he accomplishes my Open Borders quest, a settler reward would make sense as refugees from Amurite/Bannor lands. It may be a bit too much of a reward unless he secures open borders from them both. Although Exploration - Cartography would be out of the way for Esus's quest as well, I'm going to play through and see if either the Amurites or the Bannor go for the tech themselves and how willing they are to open borders.

Do you guys think it's better to be up front about the rewards of the quests, or leave the reward to be a mystery?
Click to expand...

You could widen the scope of the quest to opening borders with at least two other civs, not necessarily Amurites and the Bannor. I like the idea of the Settler refugees as the reward.
You might want to think about what they are running away from - religious persecution would justify why they are all so devoted to Lugus but it would mean that whichever Civ they came from shouldn't be an Empyrean stronghold later in the game.

I'd be open with Verdian as to what the proposed reward for successfully completing the mission is, especially as he'll have conflicting research temptations from the other Gods.
 
apenpaap said:
What if I combined giving him a settler with the lowered population? In that way, I am hurting him in the short term, which will make the reward lower and more approppriate, yet also helping him catch up in the mid-term, as a second city will really help.
Click to expand...

I think that makes a lot of sense.

zbelg said:
Obviously, I want to do this without actually stepping on any of the other god players toes. To what extent should I be aware of the other gods plans?[/spoiler]
Click to expand...

Lugus would not know about the Mega Plot yet. Esus would only have revealed parts of it to Mammon and Camulos.

Generally, I'd say that the other Gods aren't too aware of Esus's plans. That's one of the reasons why the actual quests are buried in the midst of a lot of other waffle and are delivered by people who would not feel allegiance to Esus. If there's ever a quest that you think Lugus should be aware of, we can talk about it here.

As regards the features, Lugus could reveal that Shalin is not really a master of Creation Magic and that the creatures he creates are merely illusions. He could also warn that the magic in the Chill Pass is not a source of Creation Mana.

Esus would be open to discussing areas of cooperation with Lugus. Lugus would be welcome in Shadowfel for talks on any topic but Esus would only send emissaries into the Vault of Lugus (just in case Lugus on his home turf is able to breach a few of Esus's Deceptions).

The other Gods can let you know how aware you are of their schemes. The way I'd see it:
Most Gods are aware of Ceridwen's offer as a vision was given to multiple people across the world.
Lothbrok would be apparent to a God that went looking around Aerie but at this stage, it's possible that none of the Gods have noticed him. As the hell hounds have only recently escaped from hell, the other Gods might not have noticed them either (Sirona might, if they left via a route she had established).
The Gods would be aware of Sirona's angels guarding holy places but don't know anything more about them.
 
Thanks for the clarification. My initial idea was to request a pilgrimage to the Mirror of Heaven, but it seems like a bit too much of a task right now. I actually quite like the placement and how that turned out, however, because the Calabim controlling it is an interesting predicament for me. My current goal is to free it from the hands of the vampires. If Veridian helps me, I may try to give him what warnings I can. Opening the borders to the Amurite and Bannor lands would help lead Veridian towards the mirror, which is why I planned on requesting them specifically.

The settler reward may make sense for open borders with the Sidar, but I think it would just be better if somebody else handle the current settler. apenpaap's proposal seems appropriate. The Amurites and Bannor don't seem to place any priority on Cartography, but they're both open to Open Borders with the current diplomatic stances. So this is my idea-

Spoiler :

Quest- Establish Open Borders with the Bannor and the Amurites.
Reward- Earn Lugus's favor and receive more visions
Bonus- If accomplished before the next God turn, Lugus will grant the Sentry promotion to the player's units.


I suspect Veridian will be more interested in researching Trade right now than getting the bonus, but that's for him to decide.

I'd also like to add an Elder Council in Golden Leane to help the Malakim.
 
To lend a hand to other gods, a bit more about Lothbrok
Spoiler :
Lothbrok is an independent agent who happens to be one of the possible outlets for the word of Camulos. He may or may not be a Harbinger, but that I'm keeping to myself for the moment.
Outwardly though, he just appears to be a battle-hardened veteran without an arm. Anyone who goes looking in detail at him won't find any trace of divine intervention upon him, except when Camulos speaks through him.

I don't want him to become a unit in any form, or to have any direct (building, great person, etc) effect on the city. He's just stopped by and is quite content to pay for lodgings, meals, and so on.
The (currently) incidental increase in aggression is related to his appearance, suggesting he *may* be a Harbinger, but there's no immediate evidence of it.


Alright, I guess that didn't really accomplish much. I sort of wrote it as it came to me.

I'll also put my support behind apenpaap's solution to giving him a settler. I think that works well, and perhaps as this is Ceridwen speaking, these citizens leaving Aerie want to leave so they can follow her with greater freedom than in the capital, and thus Ceridwen could add a scientific or magic related building (or Great Person) into the new settlement.

'kay, I'm done for the moment.
 
So, my idea for the Mirror of Heaven is that pilgrims loyal to Lugus are being captured by the nearby Calabim, and my ultimate goal right now is to free them. If Veridian opens his borders, I'll reveal the Mirror of Heaven and Golden Leane, and request he travel to the Mirror. If he goes to the Mirror, I'll request that he raze the closest Calabim city. In return, I'll give him my settler, along with an Ecchelastic and maybe a Bloodpet (the freed pilgrims). His choice then would be to have them found a city of his own, or return them to Golden Leane, in which case I'd make the Malakim his ally. In either case, especially if Veridian adopts the Empyrean, I'd begin to try to help him.

How does this sound? I know Veridian will have a lot on his plate coming up, and I'm hoping throwing one more major task in isn't going to complicate things too much, but I suppose it will all be up to him which god he is more interested to please. If he shows initiative to accomplish this, I may try to help his army towards the Calabim or give minor punishments to the Calabim for capturing my pilgrims.
 
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