merijn_v1
Black Belt
We also could reduce the amount of gold a Jewish Quarter provides.
RFC Europe Wonders
- Thread starter st.lucifer
- Start date
AbsintheRed
Deity
Yeah, for balancing it could work
But I would prefer if we come up with a more creative and somewhat more unique bonus
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
Kazimierz:
- Free Jewish Quarter in all your cities (present and future) which has Judaism;
- Spreads Judaism to a number (2~4, sync with Poland UHV) of your cities (this effect currently exists);
The +1 Free Merchant can be changed/complemented by:
+3
per Culture level of the city the Wonder is built in. This means that if the city has Legendary Culture, it will have comparable Commerce yield to the other Shrines.
Magellan's Voyage:
- Free Navigation I promotion for units built in all cities;
- -25% Production cost for Colonial Projects (make sure Portugal doesn't build this due to their UP).
- Free Jewish Quarter in all your cities (present and future) which has Judaism;
- Spreads Judaism to a number (2~4, sync with Poland UHV) of your cities (this effect currently exists);
The +1 Free Merchant can be changed/complemented by:
+3
per Culture level of the city the Wonder is built in. This means that if the city has Legendary Culture, it will have comparable Commerce yield to the other Shrines.Magellan's Voyage:
- Free Navigation I promotion for units built in all cities;
- -25% Production cost for Colonial Projects (make sure Portugal doesn't build this due to their UP).
simplicissimus
Chieftain
What about the Golden Gate of Kiev? Could provide some bonus against barbarians which would be really suitable for this civ.
Another idea for the eastern civilizations: what about colonial projects for Siberia?
Another idea for a naval/colonial wonder: the Archivo General de Indias in Sevilla. Due to better bureaucracy it could give some extra money/ressources from the colonial projects!
Another idea for the eastern civilizations: what about colonial projects for Siberia?
Another idea for a naval/colonial wonder: the Archivo General de Indias in Sevilla. Due to better bureaucracy it could give some extra money/ressources from the colonial projects!
merijn_v1
Black Belt
The Siberian Colony idea has come up several times, but we decided not to include it, because it's a sortof free colony for Moscow, because they are the only civ that would have access to it.
The fur that was imported from Siberia is represented with some fur resources near the edge of the map.
The Golden Gate of Kiev is a nice idea. It could provide all of the civs units with a promotion that gives every unit a 25% bonus vs. barbarians. (like the Mamluk UP in SoI) I don't know if this is overpowered or not.
The fur that was imported from Siberia is represented with some fur resources near the edge of the map.
The Golden Gate of Kiev is a nice idea. It could provide all of the civs units with a promotion that gives every unit a 25% bonus vs. barbarians. (like the Mamluk UP in SoI) I don't know if this is overpowered or not.
simplicissimus
Chieftain
Sorry for necromancy! I just overlooked this thread and might overseen it!
simplicissimus
Chieftain
As I do not know much about Russian or Kievan Rus history I took this discussion as a reason to do a little research. So I read about the serpent´s wall http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent´s_Wall. In the German wiki it says that the Kievan Rus improved the wall against the hordes of the steppes. If you think this is important enough to be a wonder in RFCE it could probably slower the barbarian´s movement (a function like the one of the Great Wall in the vanilla game would be overpowered in my opinion) or, if it´s codable, could make all barbarian movement visible for owner to prevent sneak attacks!
merijn_v1
Black Belt
What do you exaclty mean by "make all barbarian movements visible"?
simplicissimus
Chieftain
I mean all barbarian units, also those who would be invisible due to fow! The idea came to me from civ4 colonization! There is a founding father who makes all goody huts on the whole map visible. If this would be possible for mobile units it would be an option so the player can´t be surprised so easily by the fast moving marauding cavalry
merijn_v1
Black Belt
That will also mean that your able to see all barbarian in Spain or anywhere else in the world. So the barbarian will act as spies.
simplicissimus
Chieftain
I know but I would see no problem with that. When I´m playing the game ´til the end for a score-victory I usually see all cities of my opponents and their units in the surrounding due to the enormous number of espionage-points I was able to collect - and I´m not interested in every single information on the map I get through this. Do you think it would be problematic?
Or would it be possible to enlarge the visibility-range of the own cultural borders as an alternative?
Or would it be possible to enlarge the visibility-range of the own cultural borders as an alternative?
merijn_v1
Black Belt
I have never been a fan of being able to see the enemy's city with espionage. Especially for this mod, because I don't think it's historical.
Maybe reducing the Russian resources and giving "Eastern Access" to some provinces in the Northeastern Region (to make possible Sweden, Muscovy, Kiev and the Ottomans fight to get them). Like one in Karelia (normally Russia will have it because Sweden rarely venture so far, but for the Swedish player it could surely grab some "Colonial Territory").
Of course in History it's conquerors were only Russia. But if Kiev Survived as a strong Grand Principality, obliterated the invading Mongol Horde, the Swedish could consolidate Scandinavian ruleship and expanded eastward to Karelia so to grab some northern tundra steppes instead of a not so fortunate Muscovy state (maybe losing to a strong Lithuanian State) or even an Ottoman Caliphate spreading the Islam to the Mongol Warring Khanates (i.e. Kazakh Khanate) and the Ottoman ruleship to the east (instead of the normal Northern Africa that may be held by a strong Cordoban Caliphate that you helped survive the hard times).
Karelia, Vologda, Nizhny Novgorod, Donets and Kuban could be good candidates. Sweden, Kiev, Muscovy and the Ottomans would fight to get these resources (in a similar way the Atlantic powers get their Atlantic Resources). A victorious and survived strong Byzantine Empire expanding through the Eastern Steppes to Siberia would be a nice game.
Of course in History it's conquerors were only Russia. But if Kiev Survived as a strong Grand Principality, obliterated the invading Mongol Horde, the Swedish could consolidate Scandinavian ruleship and expanded eastward to Karelia so to grab some northern tundra steppes instead of a not so fortunate Muscovy state (maybe losing to a strong Lithuanian State) or even an Ottoman Caliphate spreading the Islam to the Mongol Warring Khanates (i.e. Kazakh Khanate) and the Ottoman ruleship to the east (instead of the normal Northern Africa that may be held by a strong Cordoban Caliphate that you helped survive the hard times).
Karelia, Vologda, Nizhny Novgorod, Donets and Kuban could be good candidates. Sweden, Kiev, Muscovy and the Ottomans would fight to get these resources (in a similar way the Atlantic powers get their Atlantic Resources). A victorious and survived strong Byzantine Empire expanding through the Eastern Steppes to Siberia would be a nice game.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
I don't think that will work. As AI Kiev will very likely collapse, AI Sweden and AI Turkey don't expand that far, it's free to be grabbed by Moscow.
This results that Siberia is or owned by Moscow or by the human player in almost all games.
However, I don't think people will expand that far just to grab Siberia (as Sweden or Turkey), while getting a stability hit and probably a research penalty hit. I think the human player will only grab Siberia if they are Moscow or Kiev. (And as Kiev: If they also have enough time, production etc. to both dealing with the Mongols and settling)
So it will still be Moscow who builds it.
This results that Siberia is or owned by Moscow or by the human player in almost all games.
However, I don't think people will expand that far just to grab Siberia (as Sweden or Turkey), while getting a stability hit and probably a research penalty hit. I think the human player will only grab Siberia if they are Moscow or Kiev. (And as Kiev: If they also have enough time, production etc. to both dealing with the Mongols and settling)
So it will still be Moscow who builds it.
simplicissimus
Chieftain
I thought that someone will think so that´s why I added two alternative ideas:
-) reduced movement within the cultural borders
-) larger visibility range for cultural borders
would they be better?
Osmowstroyer
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2012
- Messages
- 253
Hey, I just played with the Ottomans, and won a domination game in 1648 (or before?). I did this by building the Kazimiers, Chateau de Fontainblue, Palazzo de San Giorgio and Paco da Rivera, so I expanded as hell. Is it me or the AI never build wonders, could this be fixed?
Yeah that's true, and even worse: It's common to see one of the Gardens, Alhambra, Mezquita in Western Europe and the others being made by the Ottomans, so Cordoba and the Arabs often ignore them.
AbsintheRed
Deity
Wonder balancing is long due (nerfs, prereqs, build priorities, etc), but I won't start a big overhaul so close to the next release
For RFCE 1.1 only a couple small nerfs will make it, don't want to absolutely ruin the previous balance
For RFCE 1.1 only a couple small nerfs will make it, don't want to absolutely ruin the previous balance
merijn_v1
Black Belt
Let's continue the discussion of the new wonders.
Some suggestions by myself:
Duomo: I think it's bonus should be something culture related.
So what about splitting the bonus of the Sistine Chapel? One will provide a cultural bonus to religious buildings and the other to specialists. Or will this be underpowered? (NOTE: Not all wonders have to be powerful, but I want to avoid that a wonder is just dull because the lack of usefulness of it. (Is that correct English?))
Venetian Arsenal: Ofcourse this requires a new UB for Venice. As for the wonder, the obvious bonus is something naval related. Like a production bonus and XP bonus for naval units.
Kizil Kule: It should have something related to the coast. But a commerce or production bonus on sea tiles are already given to another wonder. And a foodbonus isn't very suiting and IMO, it's overpowered.
A defense bonus in all coastal cities would be historical, but IMO, a bit lame.
Peterhof Palace: I have no idea. (I will search for inspiration in platypings wonders
)Mont Saint Michel: No idea either.
Golden Gate of Kiev: It could provide a promotion that gives a bonus against barbarian units.
Or (and this has been discussed lately in another thread), Great General points for defeating barbarians.
Archivo General de Indias: Something related to colonies. See below.
I think colonies should cost some maintenance. (about 3-5
each) It will make colonies a little more detailed and it will balance them a bit. (Right now, I think colonies are a bit overpowered) For the players, the loss of gold will eventually be restored by the extra commerce you get from the colonial resources with the Warehouse.Additionally, the Archivo's bonus can be that it reduces the maintenance costs for colonies.
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