SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

The save
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Unusual_Suspects_SG016_BC0150_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

The session log
Spoiler :
Turn 101, 350 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 7 (Paris) (4.40) vs Barbarian's Archer (1.57)
Turn 101, 350 BC: Combat Odds: 99.7%
Turn 101, 350 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 101, 350 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 101, 350 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 101, 350 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (8/100HP)
Turn 101, 350 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 101, 350 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 7 (Paris) has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
Turn 101, 350 BC: You have captured Teoihuacan!!!
Turn 101, 350 BC: Buddhism has spread in GP Farm.

Turn 102, 325 BC: Buddhism has spread in Production.
Turn 102, 325 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Louis XIV's Chariot 1 (Paris) (4.40)
Turn 102, 325 BC: Combat Odds: 0.6%
Turn 102, 325 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 102, 325 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 102, 325 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 1 (Paris) is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 102, 325 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 102, 325 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 1 (Paris) is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 102, 325 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 1 (Paris) is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 102, 325 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 102, 325 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 102, 325 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 1 (Paris) has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 103, 300 BC: The borders of East Fish have expanded!
Turn 103, 300 BC: Ramesses II adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 103, 300 BC: Rabbi Akiva (Great Prophet) has been born in Bibracte (Brennus)!

Turn 104, 275 BC: Brennus has completed The Mahabodhi!

Turn 106, 225 BC: The borders of Production have expanded!

Turn 107, 200 BC: GP Farm will become unhealthy on the next turn.
Turn 107, 200 BC: GP Farm will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Commerce will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Barb City has become happy.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Barb City can hurry Granary for 2⇴ with 4ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Brennus will trade Iron Working
Turn 107, 200 BC: Commerce will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 107, 200 BC: East Fish will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 107, 200 BC: You have discovered Aesthetics!
Turn 107, 200 BC: Buddhism has spread in Barb City.

Turn 108, 175 BC: Paris has become healthy.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Commerce has grown to size 7.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Commerce has become unhappy.
Turn 108, 175 BC: East Fish has grown to size 2.

Turn 109, 150 BC: Commerce has become healthy.
Turn 109, 150 BC: The borders of Commerce are about to expand.
Turn 109, 150 BC: The borders of Barb City are about to expand.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 13 (Production) (4.00) vs Barbarian's Archer (5.25)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Combat Odds: 17.8%
Turn 109, 150 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 13 (Production) is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 13 (Production) is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 13 (Production) is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 13 (Production) is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 13 (Production) is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer has defeated Louis XIV's Chariot 13 (Production)!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Your Chariot 13 (Production) has died trying to attack a Archer!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 11 (Clams) (4.00) vs Barbarian's Archer (5.25)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Combat Odds: 17.8%
Turn 109, 150 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 11 (Clams) is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 11 (Clams) is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 11 (Clams) is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 11 (Clams) is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Your Chariot 11 (Clams) has withdrawn from combat with a Archer!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 8 (Production) (4.00) vs Barbarian's Archer (5.25)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Combat Odds: 17.8%
Turn 109, 150 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 8 (Production) is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 8 (Production) is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 8 (Production) is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 8 (Production) is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Your Chariot 8 (Production) has withdrawn from combat with a Archer!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 6 (Production) (4.40) vs Barbarian's Archer (2.57)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Combat Odds: 95.4%
Turn 109, 150 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 6 (Production) is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 6 (Production) is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 21 (28/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 21 (7/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 6 (Production) is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 6 (Production) has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Your Chariot 6 (Production) has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 1 (Paris) (4.40) vs Barbarian's Archer (2.57)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Combat Odds: 95.4%
Turn 109, 150 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 21 (28/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 1 (Paris) is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 21 (7/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 1 (Paris) is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 1 (Paris) is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 1 (Paris) is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 1 (Paris) has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Your Chariot 1 (Paris) has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 7 (Paris) (4.40) vs Barbarian's Archer (1.68)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Combat Odds: 99.6%
Turn 109, 150 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 7 (Paris) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 7 (Paris) is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (10/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV's Chariot 7 (Paris) has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Your Chariot 7 (Paris) has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 109, 150 BC: You have captured Zhou!!!

BUFFY Log
Spoiler :
previous session redacted
-----------------------------------------------
Turn 101/500 (350 BC) [18-Oct-2012 23:20:01]
GP Farm begins: Warrior (15 turns)
Production begins: Chariot (2 turns)
Chariot 1 (Paris) promoted: Combat I
Chariot 6 (Production) promoted: Combat I
0% Research: 7 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 32 per turn, 272 in the bank

After End Turn:
GP Farm grows to size 5

Other Player Actions:
Buddhism has spread: GP Farm

Turn 102/500 (325 BC) [18-Oct-2012 23:28:04]
Paris finishes: Academy
0% Research: 7 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 34 per turn, 304 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Paris
Whip anger has decreased in GP Farm
Whip anger has decreased in Production
Whip anger has decreased in Clams
Production grows to size 7
Production finishes: Chariot
Clams finishes: Chariot

Other Player Actions:
Buddhism has spread: Production
While defending in the wild near East Fish, Chariot 1 (Paris) (2.44/4) defeats Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
Attitude Change: Ramesses II (Egypt) towards Louis XIV (France), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 103/500 (300 BC) [18-Oct-2012 23:35:40]
Production begins: Trireme (3 turns)
Production begins: Chariot (2 turns)
Clams begins: Library (7 turns)
A Cottage was built near Commerce
A Camp was built near GP Farm
0% Research: 7 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 30 per turn, 338 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Chariot
Production finishes: Chariot
Commerce grows to size 6
East Fish's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Ramesses II(Egypt) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 104/500 (275 BC) [18-Oct-2012 23:48:29]
Diplomacy (Embargo Request): Brennus (Celtia) asks Louis XIV (France) to stop trading with Ramesses II (Egypt); Louis XIV AGREES.
Paris begins: Library (5 turns)
GP Farm begins: Warrior (2 turns)
Production begins: Settler (5 turns)
0% Research: 7 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 24 per turn, 368 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 7
Commerce finishes: Library
A Village was built near Commerce
A Hamlet was built near Commerce
Clams grows to size 4

Turn 105/500 (250 BC) [19-Oct-2012 00:01:22]
Commerce begins: Buddhist Temple (27 turns)
Paris begins: Buddhist Monastery (7 turns)
Production begins: Trireme (3 turns)
A Camp was built near Production
100% Research: 106 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -56 per turn, 392 in the bank

After End Turn:
GP Farm grows to size 6
East Fish finishes: Work Boat

Turn 106/500 (225 BC) [19-Oct-2012 00:15:33]
Barb City begins: Warrior (8 turns)
Barb City begins: Granary (30 turns)
A Cottage was built near Commerce
East Fish begins: Granary (20 turns)
100% Research: 117 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -62 per turn, 336 in the bank

After End Turn:
A Hamlet was built near Paris
Production's borders expand

Turn 107/500 (200 BC) [19-Oct-2012 00:24:39]
A Fishing Boats was built near East Fish
Chariot 12 (Paris) promoted: Combat I
A Cottage was built near East Fish
100% Research: 120 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -61 per turn, 274 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Aesthetics
Commerce grows to size 7
East Fish grows to size 2

Other Player Actions:
Buddhism has spread: Barb City

Turn 108/500 (175 BC) [19-Oct-2012 00:34:24]
Research begun: Code of Laws (4 Turns)
Research begun: Literature (2 Turns)
100% Research: 122 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -66 per turn, 213 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Library
Production finishes: Settler
Clams finishes: Library

Turn 109/500 (150 BC) [19-Oct-2012 00:41:24]
While attacking in Barbarian territory at Zhou, Chariot 13 (Production) loses to Barbarian Archer (1.47/3) (Prob Victory: 17.8%)
While attacking, Chariot 11 (Clams) escapes from Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 17.8%)
While attacking, Chariot 8 (Production) escapes from Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 17.8%)
While attacking in Barbarian territory at Zhou, Chariot 6 (Production) (1.84/4) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 95.4%)
While attacking in Barbarian territory at Zhou, Chariot 1 (Paris) (1.12/4) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 95.4%)
While attacking in Barbarian territory at Zhou, Chariot 7 (Paris) (2.64/4) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 99.6%)
Captured Zhou (Barbarian)
Zhou begins: Granary (61 turns)
Paris begins: Buddhist Monastery (15 turns)
GP Farm begins: Warrior (1 turns)
Production begins: Trireme (3 turns)
Clams begins: Lighthouse (9 turns)
 
Played until Zhou captured. Moved most but not all units. Settler and some workers need orders.

3 archers in Zhou as I thought. This time we got two retreats and only lost 1 of 6.
Deleted workboat because two turns from Brennus borders when I read your replies.
I probably sh have turned research on sooner. We will learn Lit this turn.

beg archery at pleased - not yet; I accepted a demand and traded deer for pig
great person: Next one expected in 17 turns diplomacy
spy is at Tolosa, this turn he can move in and sentry, I haven't moved him. B has IW. He is willing to trade it - should we? :mischief:

paris: finish chariot, Academy, library [just finished and scientists assigned], future: monastery, forge, temple
gpf: Settlers, switch to warrior(s) as needed to grow; (oops, put turns into warrior planning to grow again, but that would have exceeded the cap; 1 turn from growth and 1 turn from warrior), parthenon?

production: Chariot explored North, nothing to see there; chariot, settler (just finished, didn't whip buddhism kept us below the cap) trireme
commerce: Library (chopped), temple, monastery, forge
clams: Chariot, library (wasn't in PPP) jsut finished, lighthouse (future, not in my PPP)
east fish: Workboat (chop gh), granary (whip), library, lighthouse
barb city: Granary (chop plains hill) [started to chop the hill, realized few hammers before border pop, built road to get to pigs faster], library
zhou: 2 pop whip warrior [neil, how is this ever possible?] , granary (overflow and chop); library ; Zhou just captured, so we can decide on builds

copy over the autosaves before starting - not available (I had started another test game)
make a manual save at the beginning or end of each turn - done

Fairly uneventful. still nerve-wracking. Barbarian axes running around. Woody2 delayed by an archer. Brennus is building cities in the jungle.
That's about it. I will post game now. Then logs.

I don't recall saying 2 pop whip the Warrior, which is something I would only ever do if I had barbs literally outside a city. I probably meant 2 pop whip lib/granary into a warrior (as in use the overflow). Sorry for any misunderstanding

Trade for IW, great idea. :crazyeye:

Did GP Farm build any settlers?
 
Just opened the save, a little disappointed that the northern passage was a dead end. :(

Even worse is Brennus not being pleased with us yet, cmon, that's not fair.

My vote for the settler in Production is to go to the desert island with Clams (and access to the fish).
 
the pictures I took

The Demand
Spoiler :


The Detour
Spoiler :


The Trade
Spoiler :
 
Played until Zhou captured. Moved most but not all units. Settler and some workers need orders.

3 archers in Zhou as I thought. This time we got two retreats and only lost 1 of 6.

Great work, Deckhand. :goodjob: That makes up for the poor RNG luck last time.

spy is at Tolosa, this turn he can move in and sentry, I haven't moved him. B has IW. He is willing to trade it - should we? :mischief:

:dubious:

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!! :)

I probably sh have turned research on sooner. We will learn Lit this turn.

I took a look at the save. We have a ton of cash in the bank. :thumbsup: At least 3 more turns at 100% (150 :science:/turn).

I think we need to emphasize getting settlers out. GP Farm will finish a settler in 5 turns, or can 2 pop whip now whip 10 :hammers: overflow.

Edit: x-post with Neil. I agree we should settle the clams island. Hopefully there is more food in those islands to the north.

Edit2: Buddhism spread in Production, GP Farm and Barb City. :goodjob: We would really benefit from OR.
 
I don't recall saying 2 pop whip the Warrior, which is something I would only ever do if I had barbs literally outside a city. I probably meant 2 pop whip lib/granary into a warrior (as in use the overflow). Sorry for any misunderstanding
OK, np. My point was that warriors only require 1 pop, never more.
Did GP Farm build any settlers?
No. Switched to warrior to grow. Switched to settler. Later noticed could grow again and switched to warrior for a couple turns. Five turns spent building settler and 3 on warrior. No whipping.
Edit: I didn't screw up - city gained 2 pop.
 
No whipping in GP Farm until max overflow, into NE.

Trade Aesthetics for Mono & Archery - I know, this is really uneven. But we can then revolt to OR immediately, ALL of our mainland cities have buddhism, not to mention that we will get + modifiers instantly for the uneven trade and shared favourite civic.

The economics of our game have changed radically with the closed borders with Ramesses (this was the right decision by the way, no doubt). So no more settlers right now.


edit: Sorry, I didn't want or mean to imply you screwed up, I was asking that before you posted screenies or the save. I have to learn patience (and you played well).

Buddhist shrine, woot. Have to get our hands on this sooner rather than later.

edit2: Pyramids in a far away land :cry:
 
You see, I can't even keep up.
 
I see the save, but have not yet got it.

Will look at it (hopefully) tonight or tomorrow morning, and make comments, and try to plan.

But on quick first impressions :goodjob:.

Barring breaking an arm or something like that I should be able to manage to play this as soon as everybody likes my (unmade) plan.
 
Good job! Does the demand on turn 104 mean guaranteed peace until turn 114?

Can someone post screenshots?

As regards the demand I think it should.

As regards screenies, give me an hour. If I don't fall asleep I'll be poking around for ten minutes.
 
Good job! Does the demand on turn 104 mean guaranteed peace until turn 114?

There is no indication of that (i.e., no little peace symbol)

Can someone post screenshots?

The Far North:

Spoiler :


The NW Passage:

Spoiler :


Barb Island:

Spoiler :


Current Finances:

Spoiler :


Technology:

Spoiler :


Top 5 Cities/Wonders:

Spoiler :


Demographics:

Spoiler :


Edit: (delayed) x-post with Brian. It took me a while to get the screenshots together, so I missed his post.
 
Hey guys

(seems that I'm the one who's always having these issues :( )

I just opened up the game and even BEFORE I got to do anything, Civ crashed. It was minimised when I opened it up so when I flicked over to it, it wasn't responding so I was forced to end task via task manager. I don't actually know if the game was able to load or not.

Do I need to PM AlanH about this? Seems I'm doing this quite a lot :(
 
T

Edit: (delayed) x-post with Brian. It took me a while to get the screenshots together, so I missed his post.

Not to worry. I've a few extra shots I'll throw up, all to do with the power:

Spoiler :
 
Yes, PM the game admins, Alan & kcd.
 
Okay thanks. Have done so.

Anyway, looking at the save: Great play! :D Shame there's no furs up north but there does seem to be a REASONABLE city we could build just to run some specialists throughout the entire game.

My opinions:


Paris: Whip the monastery, switch to a settler. Following the settler, start building Shwadegon Paya. It will give us lots and lots of fail gold since we have +175% production on it.


GP Farm: Work settler putting exactly 69 hammers into it. Whip into TGL. Switch to settler after overflow to let whip unhappy wear off and finish off TGL quickly as possible.

Production: Whipping away those good tiles is bad, BUT if we can do a 2/3 pop whip, with fish and deer, it will grow back very fast so it might not be a bad idea to whip out a settler very quickly to rush out a few more cities. At the moment, I only see 5/6 more cities that we can settle based on the map as it is. Perhaps a switch over to the colossus sometime soon may be good. As soon as we build it, as our empire is right now, it will give us an instant boost of 7 commerce. Assuming a commerce to hammer ratio of 1:1 that means it will payback 36 turns assuming we work NO extra water tiles (unlikely as we will be building more cities).

Commerce: 2 pop whip the temple maybe. It should grow back fairly quickly after all, however won't be working one cottage for a while. I do propose we build a city near the wheat to work the cottages for commerce.

Clams: Lighthouse followed by worker or tireme.

Barb City, East Fish, Zhou: Granary followed by a lighthouse fair do's.

Tiremes: We do want to have two of them at least but one should do the job for now.

Brennus's demand for trading does not guarantee us peace for 10 turns by the way. That only works for tribute if I remember correctly.

Anyway, I think now comes the point of having to decide between beeline Astro or not :p
My vote is still a no but as I have previously proposed, a test of this could be done but it will have to be by the same person so skill is not a variable. I don't think I'll have a chance to give two tests a shot since my work schedule this week is all over the place and I have a university entrance test coming up but someone, please do try it out if I don't find the time. :( I did post a test save.
 
Oh just one thing I wanted to add.

I THINK GP Farm was built before Production; can't actually remember sadly. :(

What I wanted to say about that was that for the forests that are outside the BFC BUT an equidstance between 3 cities, the hammers from chopping will go to the city that was founded first so we can get some workers to chop out part of TGL!
 
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