SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

Yes, get Monarchy by trade as the AI always prioritise it.

I too like the idea of stealing Mono, as OR fits very nicely to the Buddhism spread Brennus is doing for us. But I agree waiting after IW is sensible. Decathlon objectives first !!
The price depends on if our spy survives. If we have to build a spy to steal it, it isn;t worth it.

Oh, and after reading some more thread, don't trade for Archery. We should be able to beg for it as soon as the next bonus kicks in (religion, trade, resources, open borders, peace)

Happy to wait for a test save.... :)
I've uploaded a save a few posts back. It was based off of your test save which is apparently not accurate :$ But everything is in place (land and cities) except for minor changes in builds and obviously some worker micro (but the worker micro can be changed via wb anyway if its' a big deal)

Edit: I do suggest we build two spies for IW in case one fails which is likely since the chance of success isn't over 90. (I think 60ish)
 
The PPP is a GREEN from me. Sorry for my delay.

All of our arguments current discussions come after the next 10 turns.
 
Great discussion all:goodjob: This is the critical point a the game.

We should be able to trade for all of the techs mentioned once we get to Astro. We have to be aggressive in this. This game is a global tech race. Whichever teams game researched the fastest should win.
This is the key point. We need to trade for as much as possible. Need to have 1 or 2 AI at Friendly to avoid WFYABTA. Let them research our backfill as we beeline heavy techs. Gift them tech to allow them to keep up if necessary.
Nothing wrong with getting 2 very strong AI to vote us to a diplo as one of the Victory conditions :shifty:


Edit: I do suggest we build two spies for IW in case one fails which is likely since the chance of success isn't over 90. (I think 60ish)
Yes - at least 2. One could be stumbled upon as well.

Edit2: SteelHorse: I forgot how long you wanted to be skipped. I could put you up after Brian or Chris, if you want to play before we go through the whole rotation again.
Best time to play would either be week on Oct 29th or week of Nov 19th.
 
Just noticed that the best trade route in the entire game is in East Fish, at pop 1, has a +3 trade route with Cumonwhatsitcalledagain, which is also pop 1.

We can build another spy if we need one surely. No point having 2 if the first one succeeds, just seems like potentially wasting hammers.

edit: x-post. Yes, you get my point about research exactly.
 
Yes - at least 2. One could be stumbled upon as well.

Just make sure you don't move the spies to Brennus' city as a stack. You can stack them in the city, but spies moving as a stack increases the odds of interception/detection


Best time to play would either be week on Oct 29th or week of Nov 19th.

OK - I think we can get in the week of the 29th, after either Brian or Chris play.

Oh, I neglected to mention it earlier but the plan looks Green to me. Definitely build settlers over the Colossus.
 
Just noticed that the best trade route in the entire game is in East Fish, at pop 1, has a +3 trade route with Cumonwhatsitcalledagain, which is also pop 1.

We can build another spy if we need one surely. No point having 2 if the first one succeeds, just seems like potentially wasting hammers.

edit: x-post. Yes, you get my point about research exactly.

We could potentially be delaying IW. :)

Green.
 
Yes, potentially.

I don't see a spy in the PPP though, and Brennus still doesn't have IW anyway, hopefully he does by the end of the turnset, so we can discuss further. :trouble:
 
We could send one spy to Ramesses (since he has IW already, edit: I think) and one to Brennus and then steal IW fom the most convenient target.
 
Yes, he already has IW, but we don't have any EP's invested on him.

Its very nice knowing he has it though, as we are getting closer to the time where we need it to get to Astro.


edit: I did suggest a few days ago we could steal it from him, but I think the others corrected me
 
I don't think Ramesses has any EP invested against us either, which helps a little.

Edit: We could wait to see what the situation is after we build the 2nd spy. If Brennus still hasn't researched IW, perhaps we could move them both to Ramesses?
 
I don't think Ramesses has any EP invested against us either, which helps a little.

Yes, good point. We probably want to keep it that way by not putting any on him.
 
Does anyone know what is in Zhou?
This might better inform us as to how many Chariots we need. I am assuming 3 Archers, but you never know.

For slightly longer term, I'm starting to think that the Settler spamming advocates have it right, we should just spew settlers from everywhere and claim as many coastal spots as we can, all the way into the Bay of Benginal, as many islands as possible......

As for teching: After Poly->Lit, I think we could go a number of ways. (All of these techs are part of the Astro beeline btw).

1- Compass first (needs IW though). Then we can build/whip Harbors for +50% trade route yield. :yumyum:
2- Maths->Calendar. We have Incense (or will in a few turns), Sugar is a fair while away, as we need to chop the jungle to get it and of course settle a city.
3- Maths->Compass->Calendar (most likely option I think)

edit: It would be nice to get Maths in a trade, so IF we get IW before Lit is finished, go for Compass. Once Compass is finished then we can assess where we, and just as importantly, Brennus & Ramesses are going in the tech tree.

The Buddhism spread that Brennus has been kind enough to do for us means that we also have easy whips with temples and cheap monasteries to build.

I'm thinking that the ice-elated barb city is a red herring, and that the route over the top of it leads to more AI!! It so looks like a deadend, which makes me hope it's not!


edit: Just to be clear, I'm not advocating changing the plan, just thinking out load, so to speak. PLAY NOW!!!!!

edit2: This might have been mentioned by someone else, but as soon as the library is built in Paris, assign 2 scientists. Lets see if we can get lucky and pop a scientist from Paris, and 2 from GP Farm in time for a Machinery & double Astro bulbs.
This of course goes hand in hand with National Epic in GP Farm as soon as we have Lit. Great Lib in Paris? Parthenon required? Marble sure would have been nice!!
 
Does anyone know what is in Zhou?
I should know, as I moved the chariot to the hill to see. But I promptly forgot. :( It is either 2 or 3 archers. If it is only 2, then I will attack sooner and build less chariots.

OK, I will play soon. I will modify the PPP by the items mentioned above, but not repost it.
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EDIT, well I will repost and edit it, this will help me execute it properly:


350 bc ppp draft turns 101 - ~108
Download and play from Revent's save!
--------------------------
general strategy
satisfy all game conditions in shortest time.
Build coastal cities, contact other ais asap for glh commerce = bulb astronomy asap (avoid code of laws)
get our continent to ourselves later, for now buddy up to brennus
radio or medicine from liberalism
culture and domination victories
special conditions status: 1 of 10
------
turn 101
goals: Stay out of war w celts, take barbarian city, steal iw, build more cities, explore more
beg archery at pleased; don't steal mono
tech: Aesthetics at 0% until can stay at 100% for aes & lit
trade for archery from rameses for meditation I'm playing and noticed I forgot to delete this.
great person: Next one expected in 25 turns
diplomacy: Accept brennus demands; do not accept ramesses demands
cancel trades to brennus when pleased? Don't cancel - no feedback to do this. Wait until we need the health.
begging: Beg for archery when brennus is pleased w us
espionage: All on brennus, no slider (unless needed for steal); spy to tolosa, wait 5 turns, steal iw

city builds
paris: Academy, library [assign 2 scientists], forge, monastery, temple
gpf: Settlers, switch to warrior(s) as needed to grow; parthenon
production: Chariot to explore n, chariot, settler (whip), trireme,
commerce: Library (chopped), temple, monastery, forge
clams: Chariot (archers if possible)
barb city: Granary (chop plains hill), library
east fish: Workboat (chop gh), granary (whip), library, lighthouse
zhou: 2 pop whip warrior, granary (overflow and chop); library
zhou has 2 population now, but assuming 3 archers, we need 6 chariots. There are 3 by barb city (2 need to heal) and 1 in fish city. Building chariots in paris and clams which can go here. I would like to build a chariot in production since its last chariot went s to capture the barb city.
One galley is enough for now for ferrying. build a trireme instead

micro:
assign cottage to paris so it can work it rather than ocean

units:
wb6 explore w as far as possible, then explore northern isles, go n, then se
wb3 go south young boat: Head to sw to explore those islands
warrior2 (woody) explore south continent, rameses land and look for brennus stack
chariots: Kill barb on island; wounded units heal; gather on island to take zhou (need 6) explore unexplored part of peninsula and n of production
spy: Go to tolosa wait 5 turns and steal iw, steal mono first iff iw not available
worker1: Cottages for commerce
worker2: Chop workboat, cottage fps, mine ph, mine grass hill
worker 3: Chop library for commerce, cottage paris grass, later roads on gems and pigs
worker4: Camp production deer, cottages (commerce, paris, etc)
worker5 (gpf): Camp gpf deer, cottage paris
workers fromteoi: Chop granary, build roads, pasture pigs, mine ph, cottage over farms
settlers: New cities: At least two on islands, sw of the of the southern jungle sugar, 1w2s of barb city's pigs (on the plains hill), and on the desert below "1/3 of a road" are both good ideas. [need to establish order] [reassess after more exploring]
stop conditions: Brennus dow on us (this cancels most of the ppp! Trade for archery from rameses); meet another ai; need a decision or advice
pause conditions: Something needs to be discussed
set duration: 10-15 turns [total = 5-10 more], to a good stopping/handoff point; maybe zhou captured


copy over the autosaves before starting
make a manual save at the beginning or end of each turn

Not that many cnanges. Will only build 2nd spy if first is caught. I'm going to cc this to Word now and print it.
 
OK, I will play soon. I will modify the PPP by the items mentioned above
Awesome!

cancel trades to brennus when pleased? Don't cancel - no feedback to do this. Wait until we need the health.
Yes, please don't cancel them. We really don't need the Clams health for now, id we need health, we should road the pigs and deer (and I think sheep as well)
 
At Brennus request, I closed borders with Ramesses. Now, our workboat is stuck in the Bay of Benginal. It will be stuck there until we open borders (or go to war). Nothing to net there. Should I delete it? [I won't unless I get two Yeses and no Noes; I will check here at end of each turn].

edit, I think it is useful as a spawnbuster on the S shore of our Peninsula
No, those tiles are covered by Celt borders.
 
Gift it to Brennus or delete it.
 
Played until Zhou captured. Moved most but not all units. Settler and some workers need orders.

3 archers in Zhou as I thought. This time we got two retreats and only lost 1 of 6.
Deleted workboat because two turns from Brennus borders when I read your replies.
I probably sh have turned research on sooner. We will learn Lit this turn.

beg archery at pleased - not yet; I accepted a demand and traded deer for pig
great person: Next one expected in 17 turns diplomacy
spy is at Tolosa, this turn he can move in and sentry, I haven't moved him. B has IW. He is willing to trade it - should we? :mischief:

paris: finish chariot, Academy, library [just finished and scientists assigned], future: monastery, forge, temple
gpf: Settlers, switch to warrior(s) as needed to grow; (oops, put turns into warrior planning to grow again, but that would have exceeded the cap; 1 turn from growth and 1 turn from warrior), parthenon?

production: Chariot explored North, nothing to see there; chariot, settler (just finished, didn't whip buddhism kept us below the cap) trireme
commerce: Library (chopped), temple, monastery, forge
clams: Chariot, library (wasn't in PPP) jsut finished, lighthouse (future, not in my PPP)
east fish: Workboat (chop gh), granary (whip), library, lighthouse
barb city: Granary (chop plains hill) [started to chop the hill, realized few hammers before border pop, built road to get to pigs faster], library
zhou: 2 pop whip warrior [neil, how is this ever possible?] , granary (overflow and chop); library ; Zhou just captured, so we can decide on builds

copy over the autosaves before starting - not available (I had started another test game)
make a manual save at the beginning or end of each turn - done

Fairly uneventful. still nerve-wracking. Barbarian axes running around. Woody2 delayed by an archer. Brennus is building cities in the jungle.
That's about it. I will post game now. Then logs.
 
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