SGOTM 16 - Plastic Ducks

@Duckweed

After T100, maybe we need to leave macro to each player himself/herself. What do you think of it?

Duckweed said:

Time to wake up and play the 2 turns, we are way behind of the schedule now, even the schedule of finishing it in 4 months. We are going to end with a more crappy play than SGOTM14 if not hurry up now.

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. No, I decided it is time for you to wake up (actually I had plan to test and play after my guests left, but then, somehow, I fell asleep on the couch early (midnight)). It is 11 AM here, and if you were me last week, you'd be still awake. If ony Bebekija was here to support my time zone...

@sossos

I agree. We are literally squeezing couple of commerce/hammers and now those are less then 5% of our income, while taking considerable time (+we are losing time because of different time zones). If anyone gets super idea, he is welcome to post it non the less.

PPP

T95

Galley 2S1W

Tours: worker puts 1T into grassland cottage
Orleans: WB to desert island fish
Paris: start Worker, city screen: work riverside PH mine instead of Corn
Marseilles: work corn


T96

Chariot to 2W

Chartres: WB nets the fish
Mars: work Pig
Orleans: whip settler (work horse instead of deer)
Paris: whip Worker (work on corn + cottages)
Tours: grassland worker to FP and cottage

Research to 0%


T97

Chariot to wherever it reveals most of the land with sea tiles and safety as priority.

Orleans: start, warrior
Paris: OF into Library

Stop



Basically, this plan was unopposed so I am going to execute it right now.

T96



Bummer.
What to do?

I have simulated the situation in WB and if we give C1 promotion to Chariot and explore_script to Archer, Archer doesn't attack the chariot. (default is city defense and then it always goes to barb city). If we decide to kill Archer on flat land with C1, we have 86.6% to win. If I give attack script to archer and go to grassland with C1 chariot, archer attacks with 13.5% odds to win. Almost the same odds as attacking chariot on flat land. BTW, I don't have BULL and all the fancy information. And if we go across the river, archer gets 5.2% against unpromoted chariot but we don't explore.
Archer with attack script attacking promoted chariot across the river has 4% chance but also high chance not to attack. However, 5.2% unpromoted seems best to me. We can heal with promotion if need be.

I'll go across the river and not promote if I don't get any response in 4 hours.

I'd promote the chariot for extra luck. Good luck

I don't even wanna give the archer any chance to attack. Can we threaten its city and push him back?
I vote to move a warrior onto the island to get the new city safer.

Across the river, I'm fine with either unpromoted or promoted.

sossos said:

@Duckweed

After T100, maybe we need to leave macro to each player himself/herself. What do you think of it?

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I agree.

Duckweed said:

I'm very clear on this. We will soon enter the period with simplified PPP, where we are going to skip the detail worker movements and tile management. You might notice that we have never went OSS style, the major goal of detailed PPP in early stage is to secure some critical wonders and found a solid empire.

On the other hand, I'm also worried about our progress in the last few weeks, hope you could catch up with some paces in your set.

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Just an example of how we did in SGOTM11.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9302198&postcount=1129

However, I'd still prefer the active player to update the test game for longer time since that running some tests before playing will improve quite a lot in the actual play.

Shall we push the active player a bit? We won't be strict with 24/48 rule, but I'd suggest to try our best to meet the rule. Whoever can't play 5~10 turns in 3~5 days is better to swap.

Archer fled. I didn't disable quick moves so I didn't see where . However, new question and I have played T97 to the end except Chariot move:



Where do you want me to go? 3FPs already make south juicy enough to consider it a city spot. If I go north to PH I can reveal more tiles and there is probably no barb threat there.

@sossos

Returning chariot to barb city wouldn't provide any exploration.

The small micro adjustments at this stage still have a significant impact. Maybe we are overdoing it but the main problem, I think, is that we're taking too much time on it. Once major objectives are reached (Currency being one, CS, Great Library), then it becomes much easier to disregard the small micro.

EDIT: NE would reveal several tiles.

That's simple. 1W and then either keeps 1W or 1S or 1SW depends on where's the archer. Still, we need to completely scout the coastal tiles.

Nothing except possibility to have horses and FPs in bfc. T97 finished.


Edit: Kossin was faster and was going along my plan...

Now I understand what they mean by very few map edits... this game is devoid of any -resources

We do have 2 calendar resources and there are some gems close enough. It seems like natural map to me. Monarchy was great decision.

Yes, what I meant was that the last few SGOTM maps were heavily modded, SGOTM14 just about had every luxury in the starting area, making for very crazy starts possible.

In contrast, this is a slow-start map. Monarchy was indeed the better choice here. Imagine having to research it before you start whipping heavily!

It's sad that we did not reveal anything useful in these 2 turns. Not even able to determine the exact site for 2nd island city.

Are you going to continue to Currency? The major issue next is whether we want to grow to size6 in Tours to produce a settler or start a Lib and whip it at size 6.

Duckweed said:

It's sad that we did not reveal anything useful in these 2 turns. Not even able to determine the exact site for 2nd island city.

Are you going to continue to Currency? The major issue next is whether we want to grow to size6 in Tours to produce a settler or start a Lib and whip it at size 6.

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Yeah, so many tiles of nothing. Almost 20 in last 2T. I'd expect some food with all those tiles revealed.

I can continue to Currency. Did some testing before. We have to agree on city builds first. Tours: Library first. Library can OF some hammers into settler and Tours has only 1 per turn. We need 10 for 3pop whip of settler.

Edit: Chariot movement propositions would be welcome. 1N would reveal only 3 ocean tiles we could work, and one of them can be worked from grassland island tile. I wouldn't go there. Southern coast looks more promising.

8F surplus + 1H means 9H so settler is a 3-turn build.

Just checked the save.

The worker from Paris is on a tile unexpected. In my test, I let it connect the Corn before going to one of it's own plain forests since Orleans will be unhealthy at size 7. Moreover, I prefer to save the grassland forest for Paris since the worker does not have time to do a cottage because it either needs to chop another forest to speed up the LH or roads to the clam city and chop.

Tours will produce 11H at size 6 --9F(city center + Pig + 2FP + 1 Oasis) +2H(from the PH and city center), could start settler on T101 from my test.

Edit: Some highlights and issues from my test for your reference

T98 -- R100%, Rh starts a WB for clam city
T99 -- Rh takes Pig, where to put the 2nd citizen of Mars 1F2H/2F1H/1F2C?)
T100 -- settler and worker on board, Orleans (takes cottage to grows to size 7 next turn) Tours (starts a lib or keep on WB if we want a settler)
T101 -- Rh (starts a LH or galley, favors food or scout?), Orleans(2 scientists), Lyons(on 2FP cottages + Wheat), Tours(size6 starts a settler). Unload the worker and settler to the PH tile 2 W of the sheep, chariot should be nearby to guard since we definitely to see another barbarian city spawn there.

Now there's another issue, do we want to road the Corn to delay the granary in Mars?

Blue mark is my choice and OK with either choices otherwise.

I saw the worker move in the PPP as well but when nobody voiced anything, I figured everyone was happy with it, oh well.

Tours is even better than I recalled then, 2-t settler is perfect.