SGOTM 21 - Xteam

BSPollux said:

It is correct that you only bought one clue so far, right?

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Correct. We plan to buy more clues soon, but we haven't played the real game forward yet. Presumably, Cactus Pete will buy another clue tomorrow.

BSPollux said:

I hope you can accept that I won't change that for you now. I don't think it's that bad, and just compare it to the possibility of you being disqualified for a mistake I made when handing out clues.

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Not a problem. I've reworded the clues for our team's purposes in message #557, which matches how we were already discussing them (Elizabeth #1, Catherine #2, etc), so we should be fine by following our own naming convention, regardless of what you call them.

Cactus Pete said:

What is the reason for buying #1 from Eliz before #1 from Cathy? #1 from Cathy would probably give us certainty in planning for her.

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I don't think that anyone has stated a reason yet.

A possible reason could be that if we do need to do something in the short term to please Elizabeth, such as build a Wonder in order to please Elizabeth, each turn that we delay finding out about the task, the less Worker turns that we'll have available to put toward completing said task. For example, perhaps we will need to delay Triple Fish City and go settle a City to the west of the Corn to Chop out a Wonder ASAP.

With Catherine's #2 task being so late in the game, I'm doubtful that Catherine #1 will become obsolete over the next few turns' time.

I'm also okay with buying Catherine #2 soon, but perhaps we do something like:
T79 Buy one of Elizabeth #1 or Elizabeth #2
T80 Buy the other one of Elizabeth #1 or Elizabeth #2, unless we can easily complete the task that we purchased last turn, in which case buy Catherine #1
T81 Trade Willem's Gold <-> Currency, possibly slip into Hereditary Rule after our Great Scientist #2 is born... we'll need to test past this point to see when our Cities will be needing the extra Happiness
T82 Buy Catherine #1 if we haven't bought it already

Vi borde köpa ledtråd 1 för båda Elizabeth and Isabella härnäst. Jag är väldigt överraskad över att ledtråd 2 för Katarina var så långt in i framtiden. Kan det vara så att ledtrådarna inte är sorterade?

Folket said:

Vi borde köpa ledtråd 1 för båda Elizabeth and Isabella härnäst. Jag är väldigt överraskad över att ledtråd 2 för Katarina var så långt in i framtiden. Kan det vara så att ledtrådarna inte är sorterade?

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Translation:
We should buy clue 1 for both Elizabeth and Isabella next. I am very surprised that clue 2 for Katarina was so far into the future. It may be that the clues are not sorted?

Dhoom, I wasn't questioning whether Sheep City would be valuable or of greater value than some other city location. I was questioning whether it is worth building another settler ASAP to found it as opposed to other builds and use of workers elsewhere, etc.

As far as the clues go, BSPollux said that he tried his best to order them*, and his ordering included Elizabeth first, Isabella second, and Catherine third.

* We have to assume that a different tech path might lead to slightly different orderings, such as if you beeline Nationalism and your task is to "let Isabella be the one to build The Taj Mahal" as Isabella #2, it's reasonable for Isabella #1 to be to "gift her 10 Knights," since Guilds appears to the left of Nationalism in the F6 tech tree, even though we could feasibly learn Nationalism for The Taj Mahal before we learn Guilds for Knights. In other words, BSPollux will have tried to order the tasks, but they might come slightly out of order due to our chosen tech path, but I don't foresee that any of Elizabeth #1, Elizabeth #2, Isabella #1, or Isabella #2 will come LATER than Catherine #2.

However, I would not be surprised if Elizabeth #3, Isabella #3, and Catherine #3 were all related to building Space Ship Parts or similiarly late-game tasks.


Thus, I'm going to cast my vote for taking Elizabeth #1 as our next clue, if for no other reason than to see what the earliest task is relative to the later-game task that Catherine #2 has given us.

I think that the current voting stands at:
Leif: Elizabeth #1 or Elizabeth #2 next
CP: Catherine #1 next
Folket: Elizabeth #1 next
Dhoom: Elizabeth #1 next


Well, we're definitely building the current Settler out of X-opolis, since it is for Triple Fish Island, as there is a significant gain by settling Triple Fish Island ASAP (that's a 2-Commerce Domestic Trade Route for our mainland Cities and the City gets four 2-Commerce Domestic Trade Routes from our mainland Cities, giving us a net Food, Hammer, and Commerce boost). Also, we'll really need that +1 Worker to get our Cottages set up ASAP.

As for whether to build a Settler for Sheep City (or elsewhere) after building the current Settler, we won't have to decide for another roughly 7 turns, so we can play forward for a bit, do some more testing of how to play a few turns after T79 from the current PPP, play those additional few turns, and only then need to do more testing to see whether to build that Settler. Of course, if someone wants to play 20 turns in the test game, they are welcome to do so, but when I did it prior to building The Great Lighthouse, it was a very exhausting thing to do, so I think that playing shorter sets more frequently is a better approach.


Is there anything more that you need? Or, are you ready to play through getting us our next clue?

Yes, about ready to play to next clue (E#1).

Couple queries:

Why not put the scout on sentry duty? Are we moving him anymore?

Nothing in the plan regarding wkbt2 (looks like he's probably at a dead in). Am I on my own there?

Cactus Pete said:

Why not put the scout on sentry duty? Are we moving him anymore?

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Personally, I've never had much luck with sentry duty, but to each their own.

Personally, I like to Skip a unit's turn every turn for units that aren't fortified inside of Cities, so that the game forces me to look around the empire. For example, did an AI boat sail past in the north-east?

I'm pretty sure that Sentry duty will only tell you about Barbs or AI units when you are at war with an AI, and you might not get a warning about units that are 2 or more squares away.

But, again, it's a personal preference and if you feel more comfortable putting units on sentry and then keeping an eye out all around our empire for weird or odd things happening by clicking around with the mouse, that approach is yours to choose.

Personally, I think that it's easier to misclick with the mouse, while it seems easy to press the Spacebar to Skip a unit's turn, but each player plays differently in that regard.

EDIT: To be clear, the Scout stays where he is currently located, on the Plains square NW + N of the Plains Sheep square.

Cactus Pete said:

Nothing in the plan regarding wkbt2 (looks like he's probably at a dead in). Am I on my own there?

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Folket was exploring toward the east with that Work Boat. If you want specific feedback on how I'd explore with a unit, I can provide said feedback, but I was trying to leave that approach to the discretion of the Active Player.

It appears that Elizabeth and Isabella both had Work Boats in that area and their Work Boats seemed to be heading eastward, so it seems that there must be a path to keep following.

As of T79, we can at a minimum move 1E then either 1SE or 1E, and it's kind of either up to you to figure out which of those two is best, up to you to just guess which is best (guessing is fine by me), or else up to you to keep moving until you meed to make a decision and then uploading the saved game before deciding and asking for feedback. You can choose how you want to handle that aspect of your turnset.

"Folket was exploring toward the east with that Work Boat. leave that approach to the discretion of the Active Player." That's fine. (I can't go further east in the test game.)

Practice screen shots from test game: Get two thumbnails that are right but only one full image. Would this be this satisfactory?






leif edit - fixed it.

Since you have thumbnails, that fact is already satisfactory. BSPollux can click on a thumbnail easily enough.

To get both images displaying, you would want to have the following text, except without the extra space that I typed before each "IMG" tag:
[ IMG]http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=391250&d=1426475983[/IMG]

[ IMG]http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=391251&d=1426475983[/IMG]


To get extra fancy, you would type the following, again without the extra space before "SPOILER" or "IMG":
[ SPOILER][ IMG]http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=391250&d=1426475983[/IMG][/SPOILER]

[ SPOILER][ IMG]http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=391251&d=1426475983[/IMG][/SPOILER]

Playing . . .

Good Luck CP!

Thanks, leif.

Screen shots of $50 gift:





Well, it's not so hard if you have good coaching.

I will upload pre and post gift saves to Central and send PMs then wait for clue before continuing T79.

Interesting. Willem went from 90 Gold to 100 Gold. Perhaps 100 Gold is the maximum that he will give back to us.

We may end up using Turn 80 to get some of our Gold back for Currency, unless Willem spends or hides most of that Gold in between turns.

Post-gift save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=391255&stc=1&d=1426479648

We will need roughly 90 Gold to research Construction, since, if I settle Triple Fish Island City in the test game and give ourselves an Academy, it costs us about 30 Gold per turn for 3 turns to research Construction.

I'm still not 100% certain about switching into Hereditary Rule prior to our Golden Age.

The F6 TECHS screen says that it will take about an additional 11 turns to learn Music. Add another roughly 1 turn for every 3 turns of research to save up Gold and we're talking about roughly 23 turns without the use of Hereditary Rule.

Ideally, when we launch our Golden Age, at least a couple of our Cities will be large-sized and can thus temporarily hire a ton of Scientist Specialists. So, it seems like we'd want the Happiness before the Golden Age, so as to maximize the amount of Great People Points that we can get from the Golden Age.

We might not even launch the Golden Age as soon as we get the Great Artist from Music if it makes sense to keep growing our Cities, and it will probably make sense to grow our Cities if we're already in Hereditary Rule.


As to when exactly to switch into Hereditary Rule, the answer is probably something vague along the lines of "right before we need it."

So, we could certainly play under the assumption that it will be worthwhile to have some extra Warrior Military Police units but that we don't actually switch Civics until our first City goes into Unhappiness.

OK I see the pics, but I don't have a PM. Tell me what clue you decided on. I need to leave in like 30min to catch a bus. Or you wait till tonight (~12h from now)

BSPollux said:

OK I see the pics, but I don't have a PM. Tell me what clue you decided on.

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Cactus Pete said:

Yes, about ready to play to next clue (E#1).

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Please give us Elizabeth #1.

OK, one moment

Edit: Done

BSPollux said:

OK I see the pics, but I don't have a PM. Tell me what clue you decided on. I need to leave in like 30min to catch a bus. Or you wait till tonight (~12h from now)

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Sent BSP (and Deckhand) this PM at 12:17AM:

Hi, BSP. . .

I've just posted pre and post saves and screen shots of gifting W 50 gold. Would like the E#1 clue, please.

CP

If neither of you received it, I'd like to know that.

Okay, that task sounds to be a bit of a challenge for us to accomplish anytime soon (getting a boat up to 50 XP). On the plus side, it sounds like the task can be accomplished late in the game without obsoleting the task. Perhaps the next task to ask for would be Elizabeth #2, since Elizabeth #1 sounds to be a bit ridiculous to accomplish without unlocking Privateers.

Regardless, we'll need to do some testing for further turns anyway.