SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants

I could be back on in about 3 hours from now +/- an hour.

Okay. Tomorrow some time. Take a look at the new MM when you get a chance.

LowtherCastle said:

I guess we could capture only Thebes and leave her with Alexandria.

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If anything we'd capture Thebes for 1t, switch to Representation and give that back. Alexandria/Glib we keep.

Been doing hard labor all day (tiling my floor). Will still be doing that tomorrow for half the day, but I'll try to be on when you play. Keep me posted on your schedule.

WastinTime said:

If anything we'd capture Thebes for 1t, switch to Representation and give that back. Alexandria/Glib we keep.

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Doesn't work that way, does it? I thought lose the Mids, lose Rep. Anyway, we want both. I just hope Hatty settles another city soon, because we want her alive to steal her techs.

WastinTime said:

Been doing hard labor all day (tiling my floor). Will still be doing that tomorrow for half the day, but I'll try to be on when you play. Keep me posted on your schedule.

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When I play during the day, it's off and on. Evenings I have blocks of time. If you don't need to look at the MM, I could just play now until I run into a decision point.

Go for it

T55-T66 Report

T55 1800BC
CF Fred
Decide not togift Gandhi BW, too many WEs, let's keep our tech trade options open.
After 2 whips our maint drops to -3g

Thebes sabprod/revolt: 332/877
Berlin: --

IT
Mehmed demands we cancel deals with vile Gandhi. No. -1.
Hatty demands we cancel deals with vile Alex. No. -1.

T56 1760BC
Thebes has 4 magical fish, archer, 2xwarriors.
Lisbon had magical fish, clams, 2xcrabs, and a CGI archer+warrior.
Nothing new on tech trades, Hatty no new tech.
Gandhi will trade crabs and ivory. Ivory for deer+fish. I'm tempted to wait to trade for copper, but not risking it.
Ivory for deer+fish
Now everyone and their uncle wants to trade us fish.

Thebes: --
Berlin: 182/825

IT
Joao demands Mysticism. Freakin' beggars. Okay. +1.

T57 1720BC
We found Stone Quarry.
Thebes has horses in 3rd ring.
Africa goes almost to the far west. Hatty has a lot of room to expand. Or Joao with a galley.
Nothing new on tech or resource trades, Hatty no new tech.
Our warrior can't garrison CEB because it has to spawnbust.

Thebes: 145/877
Berlin: 335/825

IT
No demands. I feel unwanted.
Darius settles a city and we can now trade resources with everyone but Mao.
Hatty adopts Caste Systems. Maybe she'll pop a GS sooner. Why she didn't adopt Bureaucracy at the same time is beyond me, because she just teched Civil Service. EDIT: No. Hatty teched THEOLOGY.

T58 1680BC
Hatty techs Civil Service Theology.
Thebes: 160/871
Berlin: 487/825

IT --

T59 1640BC
Gandhi will trade Polytheism but not for BW.
Can't see inside Alexandria yet, but fog-gazing says it's probably on a hill. Persnickt. So much for BSP knowing his geography. 4 HAs not likely enough. We'll see next turn.
Everyone but Fred and Darius wants copper. We trade Gandhi copper for crabs.
Fred's axe btw is stationed at Fredburg.
Churchill's wb is exploring past Stone Quarry.

Thebes: 178/877
Berlin: 640/825

IT
Mao wants Alphabet. We tell him to insert it in his abacus. On second thought, I pause to ponder... Denied. -1.

T60 1600BC
I take back my perfidious doubts about BSP's acing Geography in Third Grade. Alexandria in on FLAT LAND and it's defended by a war chariot and a warrrior. Let us pray... Maybe if I play really fast it'll be the same when our attackers get there... Fog-gazing says the coast starts there so no earlier DoW but...at least the river is on the east side. But get this. Alexandria is pop3 and working only 1 hamlet and 1 cottage. It has teh GLib and an academy but where is the world are all its beakers coming from? Wow.

Nothing new on the tech or resource trades.

Thebes: 194/877
Alexa: 224/838
Berlin: --

IT

T61 1560BC
We complete Horseback Riding.
Hatty finally completes Iron Working. I don't see any mystery hammers yet and she still threatens with her WCs.
Darius will trade silver! Tempted to pillage the copper and trade it for the silver.

Thebes: 16/877
Alexa: 239/838
Berlin: --

UPLOADING to discuss. Alexandria is underdefended. Should we try for an even quicker attack?

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1800 BC to 1560 BC:

Cave to Mao's demand for Alpha? Nah, he's a stingy tech trader.

Played to T61, HBR. Alexandria is defended by a warrior and a WC. Pop3 and hammerless. Thebes has 4 coastal fish. Continue or expedite our attack even further? Save uplaoded. Take a look. I can play again tomorrow.

I didn't think we had connection to Gandhi T55. I guess we do now.
We're connected to Persia too, rt? (edit: oh yea, I read your report now.)
Let's get our hands on silver.

We can't expect to get Alexandria with 2 HAs. She'll whip something. I think our 4 HA is still not un-losable. What 'expedite' are you considering?

LC. Great start to the turnset. It seems like T70 is so far away. Civil Service already? never saw that go before IW. We have a lot of stealing to do.

Well played so far LC!
Hatty does not have CS. It requires Mathematics, which she does not have.
In Caste System she's a sitting duck! We might need another pair of HAs for Thebes, but I'm really hopeful about fighting her.
I'd still go with the 4-HA plan.

Did Mehmed go into WHEOOHRN mode when you refused to cancel deals with Gandhi?
Can we trade BW for Poly with Gandhi? Or still too many worst enemies?

I think I'd change plans to Maths-Currency. Production is the name of the game - Lisbon is a sitting duck, Athens is a target (to let us settle the super city north of it), and our southern units could sweep up Alexandria, Thebes, Barb City and Istanbul if we had enough of them. Lastly we'd sweep up Germany, settle the spice island, and we'd have enough GP farms to last us until at least turn 90.

ZPV said:

Hatty does not have CS. It requires Mathematics, which she does not have.

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Good point. Yet she can research Paper. Either she has Theo or CS. I can't open the save right now because my (very old) CIV computer is refusing to start this morning. It asked for a system restore, which I agreed to do, which might delete might CIV altogether. I no longer own the cds. Someone can check the save. IIrc, she could also tech Theo. Maybe BSP gave her CS to start with, but then why wouldn't she be in Bureau long since? Annoying that I cant look at the save. Thank goodness I uploaded the save last night.

In Caste System she's a sitting duck!

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Exactly.

We might need another pair of HAs for Thebes, but I'm really hopeful about fighting her.
I'd still go with the 4-HA plan.

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Agreed.

Did Mehmed go into WHEOOHRN mode when you refused to cancel deals with Gandhi?

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Argh. Good spot. I missed that. I have the saves, if I can open them.

Can we trade BW for Poly with Gandhi? Or still too many worst enemies?

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He wouldn't make that trade from the turn he offered Poly. BW is too de-valued.

I think I'd change plans to Maths-Currency. Production is the name of the game - Lisbon is a sitting duck, Athens is a target (to let us settle the super city north of it), and our southern units could sweep up Alexandria, Thebes, Barb City and Istanbul if we had enough of them. Lastly we'd sweep up Germany, settle the spice island, and we'd have enough GP farms to last us until at least turn 90.

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Hm. Math we're pretty likely to get in trade. Interesting conundrum. Hatty will tech all these techs for us rapidly, the others more slowly. We're in between. With Hatty in Castes, we've got some maneuverability. If we could get a really good handle on her tech rate, we could delay taking her down till she has the techs we want to steal while capturing Lisbon, Athens, and Barbaria, for example. Then grab her when she's finished teching the juicy techs in this range (Math, Calendar, MC, Monarchy,...).

Just brainstorming a bit.

WastinTime said:

What 'expedite' are you considering?

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Don't know. Some way to capture Alexa sooner. Not even sure we want to though. I think two HAs are likely to capture it with its current defenses. WCs don't get defense bonuses, right?

Yes! System restore worked and so does my CIV!!!!!!!!!!!

Hatty teched Theology, not Civil Service. Report correected.
Yes, Mehmed was in WHEOOHRN on T56, after the IT demand.

Theology? You mean free Apostolic Palace

WastinTime said:

Theology? You mean free Apostolic Palace

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Precisely. T458 in Alexambulate.

Hatty bpt analysisLooks like Hatty's final-bpt is up over 100 now. Not sure how she got it up to 117 on T59. Her beaker OF is at most ~60. She could complete Monarchy(390 @40% bonus) in 3t and then Feudalism (910b) in 8t. That's T72 at the earliest. Once we're ready for her, Monarchy gives 8t notice to capture both Alexa and Thebes. Our current plans are Alexa on T70, and Thebes theoretically as early as T72, though that's dubious.

Losing Alexa should cut her bpt to about 50, slowing Feudalism to ~T74.

Alexa + Thebes will give us about 67 final-bpt right off the bat for a 20% tech, assuming we revolt to Rep. Stealing Hatty's techs costs us about 30b per 100b, so it seems we're breaking even on that account and that doesn't include running specialists in Thebes or elsewhere, adding libraries, and accumulating gps.

Seems like we just go down asap.

City beaker analysis